Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1021  
Old 01.10.2011, 17:40
jrspet's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Quaint Wädenswil, Zürich, CH
Posts: 8,131
Groaned at 27 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 7,036 Times in 3,912 Posts
jrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

SVP launches a 2nd initiative on expulsion after 500 delegates in Gossau agreed. They will start the signature campaign in Januaury 2012.
( Swissinfo DE )
Reply With Quote
  #1022  
Old 01.10.2011, 21:24
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,859
Groaned at 614 Times in 520 Posts
Thanked 21,897 Times in 11,506 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
SVP launches a 2nd initiative on expulsion after 500 delegates in Gossau agreed. They will start the signature campaign in Januaury 2012.
( Swissinfo DE )
about "the signature campaign" - do they actually have to be able to write or is a fingerprint good enough?
Reply With Quote
  #1023  
Old 01.10.2011, 22:22
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,785
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Read the article, but what does this mean to the average EU wage slave working for a multi-national in Swtizerland? I noticed the "Jetzt is Genug" addition to the posters and wondered what was coming next. I figure they can't seriously be considering tossing out all the foreigners since, let's face it, the vast amount of wealth in the country isn't from cows, cheese and cuckoo clocks. What is the goal with this initiative? Just curious.

I might also add some amusement that the SVP clearly doesn't have a very sophisticated campaign as why would they send a campaign leaflet, in an envelope to my house when we very obviously have foreign names. I laughed, of course, and put it out with the recycling but it makes me wonder what their goals are.
Reply With Quote
  #1024  
Old 03.10.2011, 21:38
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
...but it makes me wonder what their goals are...
don't we all...don't we all...
Reply With Quote
  #1025  
Old 03.10.2011, 22:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 11,434
Groaned at 407 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 17,511 Times in 8,867 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
Read the article, but what does this mean to the average EU wage slave working for a multi-national in Swtizerland? I noticed the "Jetzt is Genug" addition to the posters and wondered what was coming next. I figure they can't seriously be considering tossing out all the foreigners since, let's face it, the vast amount of wealth in the country isn't from cows, cheese and cuckoo clocks. What is the goal with this initiative? Just curious.

I might also add some amusement that the SVP clearly doesn't have a very sophisticated campaign as why would they send a campaign leaflet, in an envelope to my house when we very obviously have foreign names. I laughed, of course, and put it out with the recycling but it makes me wonder what their goals are.
Well, I guess the people who deliver this kind of leaflets are the same who'd deliver the leaflets for the newly open pizzeria across your street. They have the goal to drop them in every Briefkasten. No mystery here, as far as I am concerned. What, have you expected SVP not to hurt your feelings? They know it could be those whom they aimed their campaign at who might get the leaflets and such, but simply don't care, on the contrary, they know it intimidates. Two rabbits with only a bullet.
Reply With Quote
  #1026  
Old 04.10.2011, 10:21
kiwiguy08's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,391
Groaned at 77 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 1,270 Times in 656 Posts
kiwiguy08 has earned the respect of manykiwiguy08 has earned the respect of manykiwiguy08 has earned the respect of many
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
Read the article, but what does this mean to the average EU wage slave working for a multi-national in Swtizerland? I noticed the "Jetzt is Genug" addition to the posters and wondered what was coming next. I figure they can't seriously be considering tossing out all the foreigners since, let's face it, the vast amount of wealth in the country isn't from cows, cheese and cuckoo clocks. What is the goal with this initiative? Just curious.

I might also add some amusement that the SVP clearly doesn't have a very sophisticated campaign as why would they send a campaign leaflet, in an envelope to my house when we very obviously have foreign names. I laughed, of course, and put it out with the recycling but it makes me wonder what their goals are.
This initiative isn't designed to kick out every foreigner. Basically it is designed to deport those foreigners who have committed a criminal act. How serious a criminal act, is to me unclear but i presume its left to the discretion of a judge. The US also kicks out foreigners who commit crimes, a recent example being an African man who claimed his son was killed on 9/11 and defrauded the government/insurance out of a large sum of money.

I also get all kinds of political letters in the mail from all parties. Its not unusual, the privacy laws here are more strict so the political parties have a harder time knowing your political leanings so they just send to everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #1027  
Old 04.10.2011, 16:44
simon_ch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,390
Groaned at 128 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 3,488 Times in 1,377 Posts
simon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
Read the article, but what does this mean to the average EU wage slave working for a multi-national in Swtizerland? I noticed the "Jetzt is Genug" addition to the posters and wondered what was coming next. I figure they can't seriously be considering tossing out all the foreigners since, let's face it, the vast amount of wealth in the country isn't from cows, cheese and cuckoo clocks. What is the goal with this initiative? Just curious.

I might also add some amusement that the SVP clearly doesn't have a very sophisticated campaign as why would they send a campaign leaflet, in an envelope to my house when we very obviously have foreign names. I laughed, of course, and put it out with the recycling but it makes me wonder what their goals are.
Sometimes I really wonder if you use your brain before posting stuff like this poptart... do you really think they have their own distribution network schooled in the art of filtering out foreign names? Because foreign names such as Bortoluzzi, Tueno, Naumovic, Zanetti, and yes Ahadov, and others..are all SVP members!

A third of new members at SVP Berne are foreigners, the total is around 9%.
I know you don't know much about Swiss politics despite your incessant ranting about it... and you don't speak any of the national languages as far as I know, but I'm sure you'll manage to translate this article via google translate:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/21323499

The message of this gentleman from Azerbaidjan is quite simple: ordinary, hard-working people who fled their country out of genuine reasons profit from the expulsion of criminal foreigners, and suffer from the bad image they give him.

Increasingly, also young foreigners or secondos join the SVP, who welcome their support:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/politik_...ml?cid=8575940

I don't know you personally but having to read your uninformed and ignorant nonsense all the time kind of bugged me.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank simon_ch for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at simon_ch for this post:
  #1028  
Old 04.10.2011, 18:02
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,785
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
Sometimes I really wonder if you use your brain before posting stuff like this poptart... do you really think they have their own distribution network schooled in the art of filtering out foreign names? Because foreign names such as Bortoluzzi, Tueno, Naumovic, Zanetti, and yes Ahadov, and others..are all SVP members!

A third of new members at SVP Berne are foreigners, the total is around 9%.
I know you don't know much about Swiss politics despite your incessant ranting about it... and you don't speak any of the national languages as far as I know, but I'm sure you'll manage to translate this article via google translate:
Well, since everyone talks about how efficient it is here and that all of the foreigners are registered and known to every town and Canton, it didn't seem to be a stretch to figure that someone in the campaign would have access to technology to a) save money and b) not waste any more paper than necessary. It's not rocket science.

And, yes, I do read and speak German just fine.

Quote:
I don't know you personally but having to read your uninformed and ignorant nonsense all the time kind of bugged me.
You know, why the hyperbole about 'my incessant ranting'? Maybe you have me confused with someone else. But, really, the nasty personal bullying that goes on here is far worse than the Local's T&C. I asked a simple question. You could have just ignored it...just like I ignored "the US does..." response in the post above yours.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank poptart for this useful post:
  #1029  
Old 04.10.2011, 18:15
tearley's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lausanne (Vaud)
Posts: 428
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 409 Times in 190 Posts
tearley has an excellent reputationtearley has an excellent reputationtearley has an excellent reputationtearley has an excellent reputation
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Simon CH....do you need a hug?

Your tone here is rather aggressive and bullying:

"...you don't speak any of the national languages as far as I know" and

"I really wonder if you use your brain"

What's up with that, dude?

This hardly seems necessary and contributes little to rational discourse.



Quote:
View Post
Sometimes I really wonder if you use your brain before posting stuff like this poptart... do you really think they have their own distribution network schooled in the art of filtering out foreign names? Because foreign names such as Bortoluzzi, Tueno, Naumovic, Zanetti, and yes Ahadov, and others..are all SVP members!

A third of new members at SVP Berne are foreigners, the total is around 9%.
I know you don't know much about Swiss politics despite your incessant ranting about it... and you don't speak any of the national languages as far as I know, but I'm sure you'll manage to translate this article via google translate:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/21323499

The message of this gentleman from Azerbaidjan is quite simple: ordinary, hard-working people who fled their country out of genuine reasons profit from the expulsion of criminal foreigners, and suffer from the bad image they give him.

Increasingly, also young foreigners or secondos join the SVP, who welcome their support:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/politik_...ml?cid=8575940

I don't know you personally but having to read your uninformed and ignorant nonsense all the time kind of bugged me.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank tearley for this useful post:
  #1030  
Old 04.10.2011, 18:24
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Can't remember the name of the first book I read in English, about an Italian immigrant family in the US, who really resents the next wave of arrivals from 'back home' upsetting their newly acquired status. Can anybody remind me, please (i'd like to re-read it).

The Front National supporters in France were the first to highlight to me that a lot of their supporters are 2nd, 3rd or even 4th generation immigrants - and often more virulent than their 'French French' accolades. A lot of my neighbours here have foreign sounding names from originating in Poland, Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc - so it would be very difficult for the UDC/SVP to decide who to post to or not (and anyway as said above leaflets are delivered by paid people most of the time, not the UDC members).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1031  
Old 04.10.2011, 18:26
simon_ch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,390
Groaned at 128 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 3,488 Times in 1,377 Posts
simon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
Simon CH....do you need a hug?
yes.
Quote:

Your tone here is rather aggressive and bullying:

"...you don't speak any of the national languages as far as I know" and

"I really wonder if you use your brain"

What's up with that, dude?

This hardly seems necessary and contributes little to rational discourse.
no.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank simon_ch for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at simon_ch for this post:
  #1032  
Old 04.10.2011, 18:56
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,785
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
Can't remember the name of the first book I read in English, about an Italian immigrant family in the US, who really resents the next wave of arrivals from 'back home' upsetting their newly acquired status. Can anybody remind me, please (i'd like to re-read it).

The Front National supporters in France were the first to highlight to me that a lot of their supporters are 2nd, 3rd or even 4th generation immigrants - and often more virulent than their 'French French' accolades. A lot of my neighbours here have foreign sounding names from originating in Poland, Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc - so it would be very difficult for the UDC/SVP to decide who to post to or not (and anyway as said above leaflets are delivered by paid people most of the time, not the UDC members).
I think I've read the book you're referring to. I'll edit this post if I remember/find the name in my outboard brain.

Pasting a town with leaflets is one thing, sending a 4-colour brochure in an envelope with postage via the post costs real money so I was curious that clearly they aren't generating their mailing labels from the eligible voter lists which should be pretty easy to do. The bit about the last name was just because my husband's last name is so far off the register that it's not possible to be misconstrued as native. That and I was impressed they spelled it right...which means they got it from either town or the auslander register. It piqued my curiosity as to why they either wouldn't target their mailing a bit more specifically or just do the usual post box pasting. That's all.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank poptart for this useful post:
  #1033  
Old 04.10.2011, 19:04
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

I see - so not a random leaflet. Yes I remember that dreadful booklet sent in the post. Agreed I would have thought it would have been sent only to those on the electoral register (like myself)- but remember that there are many naturalised Swiss from all corners of the world. My OH's British surname, and therefore my own, is very unusual, even in the UK- but I'm still Swis and he (naturalised) Swiss.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1034  
Old 04.10.2011, 19:24
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,785
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
I see - so not a random leaflet. Yes I remember that dreadful booklet sent in the post. Agreed I would have thought it would have been sent only to those on the electoral register (like myself)- but remember that there are many naturalised Swiss from all corners of the world. My OH's British surname, and therefore my own, is very unusual, even in the UK- but I'm still Swis and he (naturalised) Swiss.
Interesting. My thought was the same with regard to that brochure/booklet but, clearly, since we've not been here that long that their mailing list must be rather askew somehow. We're clearly not in the eligible voter ranks. (I might also add that I kept my surname since it's hard to order take-away with his name outside of his country and it was addressed to both of us...both properly spelled, further heightening my curiosity.)
Reply With Quote
  #1035  
Old 05.10.2011, 12:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
Can't remember the name of the first book I read in English, about an Italian immigrant family in the US, who really resents the next wave of arrivals from 'back home' upsetting their newly acquired status. Can anybody remind me, please (i'd like to re-read it).
A View from the Bridge by Arthur Miller? It's a play, but the story seems similar to what you describe.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Russkov for this useful post:
  #1036  
Old 05.10.2011, 13:29
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

That is the one thanks. Will buy it when next in the UK.
Reply With Quote
  #1037  
Old 07.10.2011, 00:51
tomberli's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Richterswil, ZH
Posts: 225
Groaned at 8 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 277 Times in 121 Posts
tomberli has earned the respect of manytomberli has earned the respect of manytomberli has earned the respect of many
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
Well, since everyone talks about how efficient it is here and that all of the foreigners are registered and known to every town and Canton, it didn't seem to be a stretch to figure that someone in the campaign would have access to technology to a) save money and b) not waste any more paper than necessary. It's not rocket science.
Well some of us - myself included - are just glad that the registration information and all personal data STAYS WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT and is not just sold off to political parties!!! Bad enough we all have to register in the first place.

Oh and I also belong to the not insignificant part of the Swiss population who sends their pre-paid envelopes back every time - without signing any of their silly initiatives of course. That way they can pay postage twice for no benefit whatsoever...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank tomberli for this useful post:
  #1038  
Old 07.10.2011, 00:59
tomberli's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Richterswil, ZH
Posts: 225
Groaned at 8 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 277 Times in 121 Posts
tomberli has earned the respect of manytomberli has earned the respect of manytomberli has earned the respect of many
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
... but it makes me wonder what their goals are.
We'll you're not the only one - there are many of us wondering the same! However, the answer is simpler than it seems. Because of the very frequent referenda and elections in this rather unique system in this country, voter turnout is often rather low - especially if matters are perceived as "not-so-important". Often only about 50% of the eligible population actually goes to the polls. So more often than not, the trick to win an election or a referendum is not so much to convince all the non-believers of your opinion but much rather convince enough of your followers that this is critical and they HAVE TO vote on polling day. SVP is by far the most successful in mobilising their followers. I think its estimated that ~90% of their "potential target group" actually votes for them. For the greens this figure is around 30%.

So the aggressive talk on all the foreigners left, right and centre has often less to do with actual policy and more with mobilising their voters. In fact many SVP heavyweights (Blocher, Spuhler etc.) have publically spoken out AGAINST their new expulsion initiative.
Reply With Quote
  #1039  
Old 07.10.2011, 08:27
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,785
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
Well some of us - myself included - are just glad that the registration information and all personal data STAYS WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT and is not just sold off to political parties!!! Bad enough we all have to register in the first place.

Oh and I also belong to the not insignificant part of the Swiss population who sends their pre-paid envelopes back every time - without signing any of their silly initiatives of course. That way they can pay postage twice for no benefit whatsoever...
I wonder where else they would have gotten our names and address then as I don't have any of the grocery cards or credit cards here and we have separate bank accounts. The only place our names appear together and properly spelled is with the government as far as I know.

And I didn't realize you could just mail them back. I'll do that next time.
Reply With Quote
  #1040  
Old 07.10.2011, 10:38
Mark75's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: by the lake (either one)
Posts: 2,510
Groaned at 45 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,136 Times in 1,363 Posts
Mark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
I wonder where else they would have gotten our names and address [...]
Do you have a listed phone number?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] chemgoddess Swiss politics/news 600 30.09.2011 20:30
Expulsion of jobless EU workers backed lobd Permits/visas/government 60 11.06.2010 06:59
Ausschaffungsinitiative [Expulsion Initiative] Gastro Gnome Swiss politics/news 89 16.12.2009 23:07
Basel's free health initiative mimi1981 Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 2 23.05.2008 17:02


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0