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Old 15.11.2010, 21:58
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What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

What do you think might be the consequences, should the expulsion initiative go through? It has been mentioned before that it could set the EU against CH and put in jeopardy all the 1999 reciprocal agreement. Do you believe this to be the case? What else might be at risk IYHO?
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Old 15.11.2010, 22:01
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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What do you think might be the consequences, should the expulsion initiative go through? It has been mentioned before that it could set the EU against CH and put in jeopardy all the 1999 reciprocal agreement. Do you believe this to be the case? What else might be at risk IYHO?
It all seems a bit pointless; the "expelled" could, for example, come back on the next train & due to Schengen without even having their passports checked.
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Old 15.11.2010, 22:15
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Living in Canton Schwyz, the odds of the initiative being passed in my area is quite high. I don't think people are well-informed on this. They'd rather just keep Switzerland "criminal" free anyway they can. The jails are over-filled and the police presence is growing. Many feel by expelling the bad apples, it will relieve the situation. Unfortunately, most will also grudgingly agree that in reality, it won't. It just looks so good on paper.
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Old 15.11.2010, 22:22
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

I've read that it will start a chain reaction which will result in Switzerland being swallowed by an enormous black hole, closely followed by the rest of the world, the universe and anything else that exists, has ever existed or will exist.

Or maybe it will just get shot down by the Federal Government for being unconstitutional, unworkable and a bit silly, really.
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Old 15.11.2010, 22:31
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Hopefully, those who are serious about living here would think twice or more before letting impulses of anger overtake them.

Hopefully, a drop in crime without a surge in police presence. That's all I really care about, really.
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Old 15.11.2010, 22:31
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Switzerland being swallowed by an enormous black hole
Wot? Again?
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Old 15.11.2010, 22:36
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

I thought that was the CERN full throttle test next year.

Yes, yes, I know - it would hardly be the end of the World, or even Switzerland. it is just that, for me, as a Swiss/British recently returned, it feels very uncomfortable- especially after the Minaret vote. Our area here is covered with 100s of posters - despite having practically no foreigners here bar the Italians/Spanish and Portuguese who arrived in the 50s/60s/70s inter-married, inter-bred- integrated. I taught for most of my life in multiracial schools in a multiracial town - and I just feel that this initiative is NOT a good way forward.

Last edited by Odile; 15.11.2010 at 22:37. Reason: typo
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Old 15.11.2010, 22:38
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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I've read that it will start a chain reaction which will result in Switzerland being swallowed by an enormous black hole, closely followed by the rest of the world, the universe and anything else that exists, has ever existed or will exist.
No, we'll just shrink and eventually disappear into one of those holes in a slab of Emmentaler cheese served on an EU plate.
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Old 15.11.2010, 22:48
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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for me, as a Swiss/British recently returned, it feels very uncomfortable
You'll get used to it.

I know exactly what you mean, though. Going from a refugee unit in cosmopolitan Leicestershire to a country where it's normal to have xenophobic images all over the place (and I don't just mean on political posters) was a bit of a shock, but in the end it just becomes part of the landscape, along with the mountains, the lakes and the pursed lips on the tram.
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Old 15.11.2010, 22:54
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Perhaps it is harder to get used to if you are 'originally' Swiss! As a Swiss I feel, somehow, the responsibility of decisions made- especially as I have now chosen to come back and live here. What is happening now makes me feel like an alien in my own country.
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Old 15.11.2010, 22:58
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Perhaps it is harder to get used to if you are 'originally' Swiss! As a Swiss I feel, somehow, the responsibility of decisions made- especially as I have now chosen to come back and live here. What is happening now makes me feel like an alien in my own country.
Well at least you can do something about, heh, DB?

sorry, couldn't resist
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Old 15.11.2010, 23:02
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Hopefully, those who are serious about living here would think twice or more before letting impulses of anger overtake them.

Hopefully, a drop in crime without a surge in police presence. That's all I really care about, really.
Doesn't the definition of 'impulse' exclude thinking even once about it?

I for myself find organised crime more scary than those related to anger issues. And I doubt that people involved in organised crimes will be kicked out, at least not those that are a bit higher up in the hirarchy.
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Old 15.11.2010, 23:16
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Doesn't the definition of 'impulse' exclude thinking even once about it?

I for myself find organised crime more scary than those related to anger issues. And I doubt that people involved in organised crimes will be kicked out, at least not those that are a bit higher up in the hirarchy.

Smart organized criminals are not so much violent, as they are in love with money. They only get violent when it pays and when it doesn't affect their business operations. But this does affect them as well.

It's the public safety issue I am most concerned about. One of the things I love about Switzerland is to be able to walk around at any time of day or night without having to look over your shoulders. It's the reason I moved here. Many people are no longer comfortable enough to walk around alone at night. I find that unfortunate and would like to see it reversed.
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Old 15.11.2010, 23:34
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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.....

It's the public safety issue I am most concerned about. One of the things I love about Switzerland is to be able to walk around at any time of day or night without having to look over your shoulders. It's the reason I moved here. Many people are no longer comfortable enough to walk around alone at night. I find that unfortunate and would like to see it reversed.
I hope for you that you feel comfortable again walking through the town in the night. But I believe that the feeling of insecurity is more in your head and doesn't reflect the actual situation. It's quite safe here. One might have a subjective feeling of decreasing safety but I can imagine that we hear more about crimes because information is more readily available through the internet. And, of course, getting older makes you aware of possibly dangerous situations.
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Old 15.11.2010, 23:37
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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I hope for you that you feel comfortable again walking through the town in the night. But I believe that the feeling of insecurity is more in your head and doesn't reflect the actual situation. It's quite safe here. One might have a subjective feeling of decreasing safety but I can imagine that we hear more about crimes because information is more readily available through the internet. And, of course, getting older makes you aware of possibly dangerous situations.
Actually, it is quite safe for me, because I am a guy, and any would be mugger would be more scared of me than I of them. But I do have some pre-teen kids, and would rather have less criminals around so I feel safer letting them walk around. I also have heard this feeling of unease from female friends. It was not like this 10 years ago.
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Old 16.11.2010, 13:06
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Smart organized criminals are not so much violent, as they are in love with money. They only get violent when it pays and when it doesn't affect their business operations. But this does affect them as well.

It's the public safety issue I am most concerned about. One of the things I love about Switzerland is to be able to walk around at any time of day or night without having to look over your shoulders. It's the reason I moved here. Many people are no longer comfortable enough to walk around alone at night. I find that unfortunate and would like to see it reversed.
We are only talking about expelling foreign criminals ... this measure will not protect you (or your family) from Swiss violence when you walk around alone at night.
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Old 16.11.2010, 13:12
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Smart organized criminals
Hmmm, not smart enough to have real jobs though....sigh.
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Old 16.11.2010, 13:13
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Consequence: The first EU person criminal that actually would get kicked out and loves Switzerland enough to feel strongly about it will go to Strassbourg - and the court will kick the federal governments butts. Problem: The people behind the initiative would not love anything more than this to happen. "You see: All this EU stuff is against our democracy" is exactly what a SVP politician needs for the next election campaign. It is really sad to see how much smarter the political right is here compared to the others - everyone can foresee this set up and the initiative should have been rejected from the start. Again, as the minaret one is the same: Democracy is cool, but it has limits where it breaks basic rights or international treaties... The same is BTW true with the minaret case: Any Muslim who really wanted to could get the law banned in Strassbourg. But that would have the same effect further strengthening the SVP and their xenophobic campaigns...
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Old 16.11.2010, 13:16
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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We are only talking about expelling foreign criminals ... this measure will not protect you (or your family) from Swiss violence when you walk around alone at night.

That's just as well. I don't think anyone is expectating 0 crime rate from this. But any less is better, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 16.11.2010, 13:28
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

So now we nearly know what is gonna happen to foreigner criminals with this initiative getting voted, just wondering on the contrary, what will be the punishment for UDC / SVP members showing this whole xenophobic attitude which on the international level and by international laws is considered one of the biggest crimes against humanity.
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