Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01.12.2010, 10:26
simonminissale's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ammerswill
Posts: 800
Groaned at 11 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 823 Times in 348 Posts
simonminissale has a reputation beyond reputesimonminissale has a reputation beyond reputesimonminissale has a reputation beyond reputesimonminissale has a reputation beyond repute
Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Last week, just after the first snow fall of the season (in our region anyway) my Sister-in-law asked me to take her car to get the tyres changed over for the winter. She kept on stressing to take it easy on the road, that if I had an accident insurance wouldn't pay because the car only had summer tyres. I did notice that the car tended to slip a little with the summer tyres. I come from a place where it never snows, so I dont really know about these things. So can anyone tell me what is the difference in these tyres that makes one a winter tyre and the other a summer tyre ?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01.12.2010, 10:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,577
Groaned at 186 Times in 145 Posts
Thanked 11,650 Times in 3,931 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

the difference is in the compund (winter tyres are softer) and the profile (you can see these little lines).
The profile gives you more grip in the snow.The softer compound gives you better overall grip.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 01.12.2010, 10:31
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 8,850
Groaned at 112 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 15,751 Times in 5,547 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

The tread is deeper for a start and I think the rubber compound is slightly different, softer maybe?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01.12.2010, 10:32
simonminissale's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ammerswill
Posts: 800
Groaned at 11 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 823 Times in 348 Posts
simonminissale has a reputation beyond reputesimonminissale has a reputation beyond reputesimonminissale has a reputation beyond reputesimonminissale has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

That would make sense, I guess a hard tyre is more likely to slip
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01.12.2010, 10:42
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,154
Groaned at 102 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 9,771 Times in 4,116 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Lots of discussion and opinion only a search away...

Winter wheels

Winter tyres - regulations and discussion

Winter Tyres
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 01.12.2010, 10:47
Bern
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

http://www.vredestein.com/file_bande...o_ENG_2010.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01.12.2010, 10:50
GenevaSculler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,194
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 956 Times in 494 Posts
GenevaSculler has a reputation beyond reputeGenevaSculler has a reputation beyond reputeGenevaSculler has a reputation beyond reputeGenevaSculler has a reputation beyond reputeGenevaSculler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Bear in mind that most "snow" tyres aren't specifically for snow - they are winter tyres and they will work better even if it used on dry roads when the temperature is low.

Summer tyres use a compound which is designed to grip best at summer temperatures. In winter, that summer compound never reaches it's optimal temperature so won't give good grip even if it is dry but cold.

Winter tyres use a softer compound which reaches optimal temperature even in low temperatures, therefore giving good grip in winter. However, continue to use these winter tyres once it warms up again and they will overheat, leading to loss of grip and faster wear.

The point of all this rambling is - don't wait until it snows to put on your winter tyres - they are useful as soon as the temperature starts to drop towards 0C, and that way you will avoid the queue at the garage to change them over the day after the first snow falls
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank GenevaSculler for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 01.12.2010, 10:50
simonminissale's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ammerswill
Posts: 800
Groaned at 11 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 823 Times in 348 Posts
simonminissale has a reputation beyond reputesimonminissale has a reputation beyond reputesimonminissale has a reputation beyond reputesimonminissale has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Ok point taken...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01.12.2010, 11:23
amaraya's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: lausanne
Posts: 2,238
Groaned at 20 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,845 Times in 1,204 Posts
amaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

hahaha we've seen the difference in all the cars with summer tires getting stuck and slipping all over the road here in the snow. we don't have a car, but personally i wouldn't mess around with tires. i have a friend who keeps the winter tires on all year- just so he doesn't have to change them- better idea than trying the summer tires all year, looks like a dangerous plan
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01.12.2010, 11:29
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,154
Groaned at 102 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 9,771 Times in 4,116 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Quote:
View Post
Bear in mind that most "snow" tyres aren't specifically for snow - they are winter tyres and they will work better even if it used on dry roads when the temperature is low.
Do you have evidence to back this statement up?

I thought that too, but then on reading around a bit - motivated by the discussions in one of the threads I posted above - I've come across lots of discussion which basically suggests that on dry roads at low temperatures, summer tyres outperform winter tyres.

On wet or snow-covered roads, winter tyres are better than summer.

Given that winters are generally wetter and/or snowier than summer, the usefulness of this distinction is somewhat moot, but I thought I'd ask.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 01.12.2010, 11:34
Eire's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tir na nÓg
Posts: 3,639
Groaned at 55 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,367 Times in 1,200 Posts
Eire has a reputation beyond reputeEire has a reputation beyond reputeEire has a reputation beyond reputeEire has a reputation beyond reputeEire has a reputation beyond reputeEire has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Be aware that all winter tyres are not made equal either. I'm quite disappointed with the snow and ice performance of my current winter tyres. I've driven a 2wd car for the last 5 winters and in that time only had to put chains on twice! I travel to the mountains on average twice a week!

I changed to a 4wd car this year and despite having winter tyres on the car the performance is only marginally better then it was for 2wd. So much so that I've actually gone out and bought chains for a 4wd car!

If you need a winter tyre to just drive in the city they would be a great tyre, extra security, low rolling resistance, no increase in fuel consumption etc. But if you need to depend on the tyres in snow and ice then avoid them. Another set won't be going on my car once these ones are gone.

The tyres are Michelin Alpin PA3

Probably best to choose something 5 star rated from this list.

Quote:
View Post
Do you have evidence to back this statement up?

I thought that too, but then on reading around a bit - motivated by the discussions in one of the threads I posted above - I've come across lost of discussion which basically suggests that on dry roads at low temperatures, summer tyres outperform winter tyres.

On wet or snow-covered roads, winter tyres are better than summer.

Given that winters are generally wetter and/or snowier than summer, the usefulness of this distinction is somewhat moot, but I thought I'd ask.
The figures I've seen for this suggest that when stopping from 100km/h the difference is a matter of 2 metres, where as it can be as much as 50m when stopping on snow. In my opinion the margin for error is less when driving on snow and ice so I'd take a reduction in dry braking of 2m and try to look far enough ahead to make up for it then a difference of 50+m and have run out of road to be able to do anything about it.
__________________
This message is a natural product. The variations in spelling and grammar enhance it's individual character.

Interested in skiing, Snowboarding or Mountain Biking in Switzerland? Information in English available
here.


Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Eire for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 01.12.2010, 11:35
Ittigen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Just read the TCS magazine or the German ADAC magazine, or move to Austria where they are compulsory, or listen to German parliamentary debates where it will soon be mandatory, or just ask your insurance company. They all say the same as we have been writing here for 4 weeks! Buy winter tyres, save the wear on your summer tyres, avoid heavy insurance penalty. Avoid police fine for driving without due care.

Michelin Alpin large size tyres came out highly recommended in the Swiss motoring organisation, but the Continental were better on snow, http://www.tcs.ch/main/de/home/auto_...ts/reifen.html

http://www.tcs.ch/main/de/home/auto_..._R_17_H_de.pdf

http://www.tcs.ch/main/de/home/auto_..._R_15_T_de.pdf


Google translation:
That summer tires in winter represent a significant security risk, show measurements of the TCS. But all-season tires have a significantly worse performance compared to winter tires. Who uses winter tires in winter and summer season tires, drives the bottom line is not only safer but also less expensive than if only all-season tires are used.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01.12.2010, 11:37
lost_inbroad's Avatar
Unbridled Mod
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Town or region
Posts: 10,925
Groaned at 622 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,458 Times in 5,717 Posts
lost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

The best thing in the snow is an underpowered car with narrow wheels...and that's exactly the proplem with most cars nowadays. They all have a lot of power compared to older cars and since everybody has to take their minivan to the Nürnburg ring, they are equipped with broad tires.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank lost_inbroad for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 01.12.2010, 11:39
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vaud
Posts: 118
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 55 Times in 41 Posts
nikolay has earned some respectnikolay has earned some respect
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

You could see here:
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank nikolay for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 01.12.2010, 12:22
Papa Goose's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ägeri
Posts: 3,655
Groaned at 233 Times in 190 Posts
Thanked 4,105 Times in 1,766 Posts
Papa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Quote:
View Post
Be aware that all winter tyres are not made equal either. I'm quite disappointed with the snow and ice performance of my current winter tyres. I've driven a 2wd car for the last 5 winters and in that time only had to put chains on twice! I travel to the mountains on average twice a week!

I changed to a 4wd car this year and despite having winter tyres on the car the performance is only marginally better then it was for 2wd. So much so that I've actually gone out and bought chains for a 4wd car!

If you need a winter tyre to just drive in the city they would be a great tyre, extra security, low rolling resistance, no increase in fuel consumption etc. But if you need to depend on the tyres in snow and ice then avoid them. Another set won't be going on my car once these ones are gone.

The tyres are Michelin Alpin PA3

Probably best to choose something 5 star rated from this list.


The figures I've seen for this suggest that when stopping from 100km/h the difference is a matter of 2 metres, where as it can be as much as 50m when stopping on snow. In my opinion the margin for error is less when driving on snow and ice so I'd take a reduction in dry braking of 2m and try to look far enough ahead to make up for it then a difference of 50+m and have run out of road to be able to do anything about it.
Go with Conti's they are superb and on the list, they have pretty good noise levels compared to most, excellent all-round grip, and pretty good life... not the cheapest mind you, but it's the bit of your buggy that meets the road, so it's not worth skimping.

I did a snow driving course in Airolo a few years back and all the schools cars and the instructors were all booted in Conti's, and that was the brand they recommended.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01.12.2010, 12:38
skyhigh's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Klosters
Posts: 134
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 45 Times in 28 Posts
skyhigh has made some interesting contributions
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Living in the mountains we only use winter tyres.
slightly more expensive but safer.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01.12.2010, 12:53
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: a
Posts: 134
Groaned at 6 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 78 Times in 52 Posts
Dramaticpause has earned some respectDramaticpause has earned some respect
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

The best reason for fitting winter tyres is to avoid the problems with the insurance company if you have to make a claim.

The arguments for performance, grip, etc are all over the place: what temperature threshold, snow/ice/water vs. dry, brand vs. brand, etc. However, the statements from the insurers are pretty clear and if they think you should have had winter tyres on and didn't you might not be covered.

I made my decision on that basis. Do the tyres make a difference - how can you tell??
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Dramaticpause for this post:
  #18  
Old 01.12.2010, 12:55
GenevaSculler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,194
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 956 Times in 494 Posts
GenevaSculler has a reputation beyond reputeGenevaSculler has a reputation beyond reputeGenevaSculler has a reputation beyond reputeGenevaSculler has a reputation beyond reputeGenevaSculler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Quote:
View Post
The best reason for fitting winter tyres is to avoid the problems with the insurance company if you have to make a claim.

The arguments for performance, grip, etc are all over the place: what temperature threshold, snow/ice/water vs. dry, brand vs. brand, etc. However, the statements from the insurers are pretty clear and if they think you should have had winter tyres on and didn't you might not be covered.

I made my decision on that basis. Do the tyres make a difference - how can you tell??
Incredibly easily - go outside, look at the cars parked up by the side of the road which couldn't get up a slight incline, and look at the nice summer tyres they have on. Then see all the other cars easily driving up the same road with steel rims and winter tyres on...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank GenevaSculler for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 01.12.2010, 12:58
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vaud
Posts: 118
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 55 Times in 41 Posts
nikolay has earned some respectnikolay has earned some respect
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Quote:
View Post
The best reason for fitting winter tyres is to avoid the problems with the insurance company if you have to make a claim.
The best and most important reason should be your own safety
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank nikolay for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 01.12.2010, 12:58
Eire's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tir na nÓg
Posts: 3,639
Groaned at 55 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,367 Times in 1,200 Posts
Eire has a reputation beyond reputeEire has a reputation beyond reputeEire has a reputation beyond reputeEire has a reputation beyond reputeEire has a reputation beyond reputeEire has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Winter Tyres/Summer Tyres- whats the difference ?

Quote:
View Post
The best reason for fitting winter tyres is to avoid the problems with the insurance company if you have to make a claim.

The arguments for performance, grip, etc are all over the place: what temperature threshold, snow/ice/water vs. dry, brand vs. brand, etc. However, the statements from the insurers are pretty clear and if they think you should have had winter tyres on and didn't you might not be covered.

I made my decision on that basis. Do the tyres make a difference - how can you tell??
I've driven the same car on the same day in the same conditions (snow/ice) with both winter and summer tyres on. If you can't feel the difference you shouldn't have a drivers license.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been driving to a ski resort and passed people getting stuck on summer tyres. I've also had some muppet driving summer tyres slide back on top of my when he couldn't make it up a hill just outside Zurich!

On dry roads the debate can go on all it wants. On snow and ice there is no contest. Even the winter tyres that I rate as pretty crappy are light years ahead of summer tyres on snow and ice.
__________________
This message is a natural product. The variations in spelling and grammar enhance it's individual character.

Interested in skiing, Snowboarding or Mountain Biking in Switzerland? Information in English available
here.


Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Eire for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Winter Tyres TerminalServer Transportation/driving 131 01.11.2010 11:55
[Zurich] Cheapest place to swap Winter/Summer tyres McBain666 Daily life 3 03.04.2010 21:04
These tyres OK for winter use here? andystyler Transportation/driving 6 16.11.2009 03:11
Winter Tyres Lynn Transportation/driving 0 24.11.2005 00:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0