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  #41  
Old 25.01.2011, 12:01
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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................................

as for the tailgating 'feature' I suggest you look at this video

a company that has spent millions trying to get the system working.
Sorry to cut up you very good post, about "as for the tailgating 'feature' I suggest you look at this video"

I could not see the video (youtube issue) but just to say I have been in several Audis that have a very good tailgating feature - somehow linked to the cruise control.

Actually that could be a good solution for these guys - I mean link it to the cruise control. Then you can select this "max speed control" feature if you want it.

About GPS maps, I have several different makes & types of GPS - even with the latest maps there are still too many roads (even some over 10 years old) that bring up the "turn around you are in a field" feature.....
Also they speed limit feature is not very good; I mean chenges are not updated soon enough - it is a bit disconcerting to be driving past 100 KM signs while your GPS is saying 120 is OK here!!
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  #42  
Old 25.01.2011, 12:17
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

what if the car doesn't have cruise control, none of mine do
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  #43  
Old 25.01.2011, 12:24
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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Oh come on, whats your problem?
I don't think there's any problem.

You might need to be aware, however, that you've actually asked your questions to a wide group of people with opinions and expertise that they are not afraid to respond with. If you don't like answers, you shouldn't ask questions

From what I've read so far, the responses fall into four major categories:
  • Do I want to hand over control of a key control of my car to an autonomous black box?
  • Is the proposed technology safe?
  • Will the proposed technology be fit for purpose?
  • What is the purpose?

I guess you also spotted that

Snide remarks or rudeness will not really elicit helpful responses, here or elsewhere; also bear in mind that negative responses are still helpful, as you know from your Information Theory courses.

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Did you do the setomat and invent more than a year for the technology?
No, we didn't - but do you know what we all got up to over the last 20 or 30 years? Likewise, "more than a year for the technology" is not really going to impress that many folk here, technologists or otherwise, so perhaps don't push that aspect tooo much

Like I said before , you have - perhaps inadvertently - tapped into a big bunch of knowledge,so don't alienate yourselves.

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After de selective availability is the accuracy of the navstar GPS system lesser than 10 meters. With differential GPS you can catch up an accurancy ub to some centimeters:
Yes, yes, yes, very impressive! BBB, eh? You might even find some people here who also know something about DGPS. Or WAAS. Or LAAS. Or the latest gossip on ephemerides. People who could chat all day with you about - oh, I dunno - CA-codes and P-codes, Blocks i, ii and iii, different L-bands in use, loss of signal and fast reacquisition, stuff like that... Someone might even raise an eyebrow at your "accuracy up to some centimetres" statement, and talk with you about the issues and implications raised by working with Carrier Phase GPS. Ya just never know

Anyway, stick with your project, listen to any and all criticism, comment, concerns and contributions carefully, and keep a note of them all. Do not take any of it personally - little or none of it (certainly from this forum) will be meant personally, we're all much, much too nice and polite . Address these things - change the things that you do feel need to be addressed, and formulate "stock" answers to the ones that you don't feel need to be addressed. But don't confuse "not addressing" with "ignoring"!

And, of course, have fun!!!

(That's enough rambling, Weejeem - Ed.)
.
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  #44  
Old 25.01.2011, 13:23
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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Do you have some problems? Jealousy? You can talk with arguments but without a reason such stupid comments.......dingy. If you would truly understand the reason why it is useful, you wouldn’t talk such things.

Cheers
LOL. Yes mate, I'm jealous.

Cheers
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  #45  
Old 25.01.2011, 14:14
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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what if the car doesn't have cruise control, none of mine do
Odd? 3 of mine do have!

I guess the answer is if you do not have cruise control then you do not get speed control.

I somehow feel cruise control & speed control are anyway linked
  • if you are the type of person (like me) who uses cruise control most of the time then it would be good for me to have speed control if it reliably reduced my speed when speed limits change.
  • If you are the type of person that likes to control the speed yourself all the time then probably you do not want to have speed control?
On the topic of technical problems then I suspect short term speed limits would also be an issue? I mean like roadworks, tree felling, road cleaning, road repairs, accidents - all those sort of things where in Switzerland they typically prop up a dirty sign with 60 written on it. I believe many of the speed related accidents do occur in such areas; there was an article this week in one of the Swiss papers that mentioned this?
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  #46  
Old 25.01.2011, 14:56
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

Guys, why debate this? These clowns aren't putting forward anything that resembles credible argument. My six year old invented a teleport device yesterday using Lego and an old egg box; I'll get him a login ID and ask him to post all about it later
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  #47  
Old 25.01.2011, 15:03
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

harsh, but fair
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  #48  
Old 25.01.2011, 15:14
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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My six year old invented a teleport device yesterday using Lego and an old egg box; I'll get him a login ID and ask him to post all about it later
Does it make the proper teleporter noise? 'simportant, you know.

Oh, and so's the big handle, just like Smashie and Nicey's one
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  #49  
Old 25.01.2011, 15:28
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

folks,

thanks to all those who offered constructive feedback to the Setomat guys. Keep in mind that they are young, and likely to have an enthusiastic and evolving view of R&D processes. Some of you are apparently well versed in the areas they are conducting their work in, hopefully they take advantage of the useful information.

(also keep in mind that they are likely in class/training today and not "busy at work" like those of us hanging out on the EF . Give them a chance to respond.)
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  #50  
Old 25.01.2011, 17:26
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

Having browsed through the Setomat website, I found this interesting quote:

"To define the average driver we have done a survey with over 400 participants. So we could verify how a "normal" person drives. The top rule was that we won’t restrict the average driver."

What the hell is there with Switzerland and flattening everybody down to "normal" and "average", in pretty much any area of life. (why would anybody need choice? average, normal(!) person buys at Migros).

I'm not a rebel, but reading things like this gets my blood boiling.
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  #51  
Old 25.01.2011, 17:45
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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Ok some questions

who is your target audience for this product? are you expecting people to buy it for themselves just as a fail safe? or are you hoping the government pick it up and force people to install it, or force all new cars to have it?

The very people who cause the most accidents (young people) are the very people who can easily disable the device (gps is extremely easy to jam its signal, even most modern windscreens block the signal) so what happens when the device can't get a gps signal?

How are you intending to get the cars current speed? gps or directly from the cars computer (obd2)

what happens with cars that still have a throttle cable? how are you going to limit there speed? cut the fuel? what about older cars that aren't computer controlled?? just keep cutting the fuel when they reach 120kph is going to do them damage, sound terrible, and pollute like hell

And of course the show stopper (sorry) the government make a hell of a lot of money from speeders, 1 ticket will pay for those 2 police, sitting at the end of that 80kph to 50kph marker, shift for that day. that's a big pot of money they will lose, and installing your system will actually cost them money with no return.

as for the "why would the US degrade the gps signal" well in times of conflict they do, and they can do for any reason they please, at any time.

I know gps can be made "more accurate" one of my cars has a calarion system built it, which has gyroscopes, tmc and connects to the cars speedo, its very accurate indeed, but costs 3000chf and was custom made for that make and model of car, and also costs 500euro to update the maps.

Just about all gps's available today have an overspeed warning already.

as for the tailgating 'feature' I suggest you look at this video

a company that has spent millions trying to get the system working.
Hi

We didn't define who is our audience. A general adoption in all cars isn't realistic. But we think assurances can sell it to the clients and so they will get a smaller rate if they drive with this box (for new drivers who normaly will pay a 95% rate).

An other audience are recidivists. But at the moment it's only important for us to finish the development of this device. We don't know how we can sell it or something. At the moment we only enjoy the media interests and to get a good honor on the SJF tournament.

We have 3 kits to manage a car. One for OBD CAN-bus cars, one for OBD cars and one for throttle engines (with a special servo).

If you disconnect the powercable/gps cable or damage the antenna, there is a earsplitting noise.

Map updates are possible with a wifi connection.

And to the volvo movie. We wouldn't to brake a car down to zero, like volvo. Our tailgating prevention is only to get a larger gap between two cars.
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  #52  
Old 25.01.2011, 17:49
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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Hi

If you disconnect the powercable/gps cable or damage the antenna, there is a earsplitting noise.

what about if you just cover the gps with (for instance) a metal box so it no longer gets a signal, I assume it will then let you speed as much as you want
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  #53  
Old 25.01.2011, 17:53
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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We didn't define who is our audience. A general adoption in all cars isn't realistic. But we think assurances can sell it to the clients and so they will get a smaller rate if they drive with this box (for new drivers who normaly will pay a 95% rate).
Why? Can you be sure that insurance will actually save money if they sell cheaper insurance for speed restricted cars?

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If you disconnect the powercable/gps cable or damage the antenna, there is a earsplitting noise.
What if you lose signal for any other reason (tunnel, bad weather, dense buildings) or just jam it artificially (with a GPS signal jammer, easily available for 30$).

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Map updates are possible with a wifi connection.
Who will provide the free wifi service?

And one more question - why do you think that an average driver is THE good driver?
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  #54  
Old 25.01.2011, 17:58
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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Hi

And to the volvo movie. We wouldn't to brake a car down to zero, like volvo. Our tailgating prevention is only to get a larger gap between two cars.
An overview of the Audi system - which does brake to zero (they say)
http://www.audi.com/com/brand/en/eff...e_control.html
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  #55  
Old 25.01.2011, 17:58
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

lol the average swiss driver is terrible
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  #56  
Old 25.01.2011, 18:27
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

Someone's already mentioned this.

Another question from the insurance company point of view is has a cost benefit analysis been done. Is speed such a factor in accidents that it warrants the system?

Have you approached insurance companies for these details?

I.e. the money I gain back from my lowered insurance costs/lower insurance claims be greater than the investment in the technology.

Would I gain greater benefits from giving new drivers advanced driving courses to increase the new drivers skill? My guess is yes. You could always say new drivers are only able to drive at 80kmh until they pass this secondary course.

Who pays for this system? The insurance company or the individual?

I just cannot see that this technology would pass this cost analysis, well currently anyway.
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Old 25.01.2011, 18:29
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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Hi

We didn't define who is our audience. A general adoption in all cars isn't realistic. But we think assurances can sell it to the clients and so they will get a smaller rate if they drive with this box (for new drivers who normaly will pay a 95% rate).

An other audience are recidivists. But at the moment it's only important for us to finish the development of this device. We don't know how we can sell it or something. At the moment we only enjoy the media interests and to get a good honor on the SJF tournament.

We have 3 kits to manage a car. One for OBD CAN-bus cars, one for OBD cars and one for throttle engines (with a special servo).

If you disconnect the powercable/gps cable or damage the antenna, there is a earsplitting noise.

Map updates are possible with a wifi connection.

And to the volvo movie. We wouldn't to brake a car down to zero, like volvo. Our tailgating prevention is only to get a larger gap between two cars.
You must always consider your market or the product will fail, common business sense. If you have no one to sell it too, whats the point in developing the product?
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  #58  
Old 25.01.2011, 18:54
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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You must always consider your market or the product will fail, common business sense. If you have no one to sell it too, whats the point in developing the product?
I have seen countless examples of perfectly innovative techology fail because of the inventor being a scientist: It is nice to see something being possible... but you need to sell it in the end. So you need actually an application for the technology. The same box might look and function differently weather it is some insurance sponsored system or for example a condition from a judge after you were caught speeding several times... so the marketing does in fact start already at the beginning of the technical design. And it ends at a business model. If you guys do not know what the term "business model" means in detail, I recommend to start reading now...

Overall chance that I would spend money on a piece of technology that is supposed to patronize me: zero.

So you will need to find somebody else who forces me to get it installed

P.S: It is not speed that kills - it is inappropriate speed. Most accidents on my commute happen:
a) in fog. If you can only see the next 50 Meters... it really does not matter if you are technically allowed to drive 120.
b) on ice/snow: ditto.
c) in heavy rain: ditto.
d) in heavy traffic: ditto.

So in short: I think the whole thing is a nice showcase but utterly pointless and it will prove impossible to market it.
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  #59  
Old 25.01.2011, 18:56
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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Have you approached insurance companies for these details?
Who pays for this system? The insurance company or the individual?
Yes, we have the AXA Winterthur who support us with informations and yes later for consuments, the company will pay the box (like the crashrecorder)

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You must always consider your market or the product will fail, common business sense. If you have no one to sell it too, whats the point in developing the product?
That's all very true, but please consider, first it was only a simple idea to write a final assignment without some commercial hidden agendas.

We have some companies who are interested to buy such boxes, but we are young and first we would like to finish the development and to win SJF.
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Old 25.01.2011, 19:09
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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Yes, we have the AXA Winterthur who support us with informations and yes later for consuments, the company will pay the box (like the crashrecorder)



That's all very true, but please consider, first it was only a simple idea to write a final assignment without some commercial hidden agendas.

We have some companies who are interested to buy such boxes, but we are young and first we would like to finish the development and to win SJF.
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I have seen countless examples of perfectly innovative techology fail because of the inventor being a scientist: It is nice to see something being possible... but you need to sell it in the end. So you need actually an application for the technology. The same box might look and function differently weather it is some insurance sponsored system or for example a condition from a judge after you were caught speeding several times... so the marketing does in fact start already at the beginning of the technical design. And it ends at a business model. If you guys do not know what the term "business model" means in detail, I recommend to start reading now...

Overall chance that I would spend money on a piece of technology that is supposed to patronize me: zero.

So you will need to find somebody else who forces me to get it installed

P.S: It is not speed that kills - it is inappropriate speed. Most accidents on my commute happen:
a) in fog. If you can only see the next 50 Meters... it really does not matter if you are technically allowed to drive 120.
b) on ice/snow: ditto.
c) in heavy rain: ditto.
d) in heavy traffic: ditto.

So in short: I think the whole thing is a nice showcase but utterly pointless and it will prove impossible to market it.
Thank you.

A System who consider the weather, yes ok, but we would like to ban speeders (Schönenwerd process, you know?). And there the reason isn't the weather.

When the system considers the weather, tailgating and all the points on this thread, you have a car where you can sit inside, push a button and then steer to your destination without a gas pedal or gears. No, no one wants that.......
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