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Old 24.01.2011, 10:37
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Speed Control (Setomat)

morning,

the information below came in the Monday morning information email at my work. I think that this is a solid idea from a trio of young, bright-sparks. Improving road safety is a very valid cause. If you have time, help them out and fill in their survey (English or German).

cheers
Nic

(disclaimer: I have nothing to do with this project)


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Competition Swiss Youth in Research 2011: Project Setomat
We, Severin Jörg, Thomas Rastija and Mathias Graf are three bright apprentices of physics assistants in the fourth year at PSI and NTB Buchs. Within our matriculation work we dealt with the speed excesses on Swiss roads and we thought about ways for their reduction. In addition, in our free time, we developed a GPS based control box which prevents excesses of speed.
This development attracted not only the police but also automotive manufacturers, AXA Winterthur (insurance) and other companies which support us. We are grateful too, for the article in ,,Einstein,, on Swiss TV (SF) which will be recorded in February.
After we got a positive feedback and a good final grade, we decided to register for the contest ‘’Schweizer Jugend forscht/ Swiss Youth in Research’’. The judging panel was fascinated by our idea. For the national contest in April we brought our work to perfection. The settings of our control box are based on the average driving conduct and rule out excessive driving. We do neither want to favour very slow drivers nor punish drivers that drive 5 km/h too fast.
With our second survey we hope to gain additional experience and reactions from the population. This is a repre- sentative survey, therefore we need as many participants as possible, independent of their age.
We would be pleased to receive a lot of feedback and we would be grateful if you could send the survey to other people too. You can find our survey in German and English and a lot of other information on our homepage: http://www.setomat.ch/
We guarantee an anonymity of 100 % and submitted data will only be used for the afore mentioned purpose. We are grateful for your support and if you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us.
Severin Jörg
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  #2  
Old 24.01.2011, 10:45
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

sounds good but what about the foreigners tanking along our highways killing kittens?
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  #3  
Old 24.01.2011, 10:54
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

Big brother here we come !

What about an emergency dash to the hospital ?
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Old 24.01.2011, 11:00
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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Big brother here we come !

What about an emergency dash to the hospital ?
You can allegedly turn it off. The three boys seem to have a good idea touching on a side of controlling recent pass/serial offenders in a way.
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Old 24.01.2011, 11:23
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

Something similar already exists on my (and I assume other) GPS.
It has to be manually (voluntarily) activated and gives a verbal warning ("Please obey the speed limit") , when the limit is exceeded by "x" kph; where "x" is selected from 5 - 30 (increment 5) kph above actual speed limit.
Obviously one has to actively choose to use this function, and also use the GPS on all journeys - at least switched on.
It does work (mine is set at 10kph over) - a second "woman" nagging at me when I drive, is just tooooo much to bear.
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Old 24.01.2011, 11:29
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

This was filed as a US patent application last year...

SYSTEMS AND METHODS FOR DETERMINING A SPEED LIMIT VIOLATION
Abstract: Systems and methods to determine a speed limit violation by a vehicle. A locator device coupled to the vehicle receives GPS location coordinates ................


http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.j...DISPLAY=STATUS
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Old 24.01.2011, 11:47
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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This was filed as a US patent application last year...

SYSTEMS AND METHODS FOR DETERMINING A SPEED LIMIT VIOLATION
Abstract: Systems and methods to determine a speed limit violation by a vehicle. A locator device coupled to the vehicle receives GPS location coordinates ................


http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.j...DISPLAY=STATUS
This effectively is what I described in my post above, just with the added bonus of "grassing up". I bought my GPS in spring 2009, and this software was already pre-installed, prior to the publication date in the provided link.

The idea of the system (Setomat) of this thread, as I read it, was that it would somehow control the engine/controls to avoid exceeding the speed limit for continued/prolonged periods (but can be de-activated - stated for reasons of emergency - unsure if this can be temporary or permanent).
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Old 24.01.2011, 12:10
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

The technology to control the speed of vehicles - by GPS or transmitters on speed limit signs - has potentially been available for a number of years already. In fact, as pointed out above, satnav will let you know with an audible warning if you exceed a speed limit.

The problem is that this really starts to impinge in personal freedom and smacks heavily of 'big brother' and for that reason will be too controversial to be widely accepted. I would happily agree to such a system being added to all new vehicles, but I doubt the majority of the driving public would...
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Old 24.01.2011, 12:16
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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You can allegedly turn it off. The three boys seem to have a good idea touching on a side of controlling recent pass/serial offenders in a way.
Mercedes have had a speed limiter for years on as part of the cruise control sytem.

If you can turn it off at will.....
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Old 24.01.2011, 13:15
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

Basically I think that any device that uses 2 basic metrics - postion and speed, and a database of speed limits as grounds for interfering with a drivers decision, especially as this device is not aware of the overall situation, is potentially dangerous. OK so you can turn it off in an emergency, but what constitutes an acceptable emergency, and how easy will this device be to turn off?

One of the things mentioned is that it will allow short periods of overspeed to enable the passing of other vehicles. Hmm I think I would be constantly paranoid that this thing would cut in when I'm halfway past a lorry, and should it cut in halfway round another vehicle I can imagine that this could be a very dangerous situation.

In the case of persistent offenders, would it not be better to stop them from driving completely, rather than giving them a device which effectively protects them from further prosecution while allowing them to maintain their bad driving habits. Plenty of fatal road accidents happen at or below the speed limit.

While speed is indeed a factor in accidents, it's not the only factor by a long shot. Unfortunately it's the only thing that's directly measurable. Personally I would prefer a driver that's perhaps faster, but situationally aware, than a bad speed limited driver on the roads.
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Old 24.01.2011, 13:20
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

Basic physics tells us that if they know with 100% accuracy where we are - they'll never know how fast we are going

And vice versa
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Old 24.01.2011, 13:30
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

its a crap idea (sorry) thats been touted time and time again for many years, here's where it falls down

the speed limit maps are wildly inaccurate, just check any gps system and you'll see, so this system could say the limit was 100kph when in fact it was 80 (or vise versa and you'll have an angry lorry driver up your ass)

just keeping them upto date would be a nightmare, even the most upto date gps maps are 6 months+ out of date.

it can't take into account roadworks etc or road conditions, so you'll get numpty driver just flooring it everywhere because the black box will make sure he isn't speeding, even though there is an inch of ice on the road etc.

sometimes you need to speed, line of lorries on the motorway, emergancy etc etc, ah, now you can't, your like one of those limited to 60kph rolling road block cars

people would drive around like zombies (even more then they do now) 'knowing' that little black box was taking care of them, not bothering to look at road signs or markings.

as soon as you get hundreds (or thousands) of people with the box getting fines for breaking that new speed limit the whole thing would collapse.
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Old 24.01.2011, 13:44
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

Stupid idea by some self-proclaimed "bright" people
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Old 24.01.2011, 13:44
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

nice to see that this post has drawn fair amount of commentary, negative or otherwise. Don't forget to include your valid criticisms in your survey response.

oh, and btw.... Dodgyken, basic (Newtonian) physics does not tell us this, unless of course you find quant. mech. easy.

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Basic physics tells us that if they know with 100% accuracy where we are - they'll never know how fast we are going

And vice versa
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Old 24.01.2011, 13:49
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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Mercedes have had a speed limiter for years on as part of the cruise control sytem.

If you can turn it off at will.....
If it's anything like my Jaguar it's set as a 200kmh maximum on cruise control.

Weird feeling at 195kmh with the cruise on.
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Old 24.01.2011, 14:00
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

Thanks god this will never get introduced. How would they ever finance the police without the outrageous speeding fines? ;-)
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Old 24.01.2011, 15:26
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

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Basically I think that any device that uses 2 basic metrics - postion and speed, and a database of speed limits as grounds for interfering with a drivers decision, especially as this device is not aware of the overall situation, is potentially dangerous. OK so you can turn it off in an emergency, but what constitutes an acceptable emergency, and how easy will this device be to turn off?

One of the things mentioned is that it will allow short periods of overspeed to enable the passing of other vehicles. Hmm I think I would be constantly paranoid that this thing would cut in when I'm halfway past a lorry, and should it cut in halfway round another vehicle I can imagine that this could be a very dangerous situation.

In the case of persistent offenders, would it not be better to stop them from driving completely, rather than giving them a device which effectively protects them from further prosecution while allowing them to maintain their bad driving habits. Plenty of fatal road accidents happen at or below the speed limit.

While speed is indeed a factor in accidents, it's not the only factor by a long shot. Unfortunately it's the only thing that's directly measurable. Personally I would prefer a driver that's perhaps faster, but situationally aware, than a bad speed limited driver on the roads.
I would agree with this. I have a Merc and use the limiter all the time in 50kph and 30 kph zones where I don't overtake. However, I'd never use a limited on a motorway except occasionally to set it at the maximum permitted limit where there are road works etc, the speed is cut from say 120 to 80 and your "sense of speed" is compromised, and you tend not to change lanes.

The Merc system is easy to use and you can override the limit simply by depressing the accelerator hard. I once hired a Japanese car which had a similar function.

I use the Merc system because it's there but sometimes with aids like this, I've found the less you have to think about, the less you concentrate on your driving, which isn't good. If you can't keep within limits without artificial aids, may be you shouldn't be on the road.
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Old 24.01.2011, 15:27
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

If I wanted someone else to control my speed, I'd be taking a taxi.
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Old 24.01.2011, 15:43
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

I've had a Merc with a limiter and cruise control, guess what I used the Cruise control more often

Seriously though, from an insurance/liability perspective, as "black boxes" are being offered to "prove your innocence" in an accident, are the manufacturers prepared for potential litigation as they become an additional party to infringements/accidents?

" 'Twas the black box that dunnit M'lud, please sue the insurance company/manufacturer that made me get one".

Axa/Winterthur have ads on the net in CH to volunteer for accident black box devices with glowing reviews and stories in 20 Min. etc.

Following on from drinking, drugs, smoking etc, will the device need to check you for substance abuse/pull over upon detecting lack of roadworthiness, and/or slow a vehicle down once it detects you've lit up for a ciggie? (Thus increasing risk profile of an accident).

All complete of course with an automated email of reduction of no claims bonus and corresponding increase in premium from your insurer deducted by direct debit the same day optionally with a tip-off to the people in blue.....
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Old 24.01.2011, 21:56
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Re: Speed Control (Setomat)

Hi. Here are Severin Jörg and Thomas Rastija, the founders of this project Setomat.

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If you have time, help them out and fill in their survey (English or German).
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First of all, thx to NicM to advice our Link.

The Competition Swiss Youth in Research is an activity for young researcher about 18 to 22 years. We've done this in our free time. We don't know if it's a realistic project. Our first ambition was only to show if there is alternative to ban such drivers, not to do this commercial.

After we've done the first prototype, we found out this idea isn't new and there are other people who do research with GPS (ISA Systems). But up to yet there isn't another product for Europe and without alternatives (overtake another car, drive faster than the limit) and not all-purpose, like the Setomat.


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its a crap idea (sorry) thats been touted time and time again for many years, here's where it falls down
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the speed limit maps are wildly inaccurate, just check any gps system and you'll see, so this system could say the limit was 100kph when in fact it was 80 (or vise versa and you'll have an angry lorry driver up your ass)

sometimes you need to speed, line of lorries on the motorway, emergancy etc etc, ah, now you can't, your like one of those limited to 60kph rolling road block cars

people would drive around like zombies (even more then they do now) 'knowing' that little black box was taking care of them, not bothering to look at road signs or markings.

as soon as you get hundreds (or thousands) of people with the box getting fines for breaking that new speed limit the whole thing would collapse.
1. WRONG! Good speed limit maps are enough good. Do not compare it with the maps from Tomtom or Garmin, that’s shit. Anyway, we have GPS reference points who tell us the correct coordinates and so we can hone the GPS system to a better accuracy than normal (5 meters).

2. With a series of measurement we verify how long do you need to overtake a lorry or a car. This standard + some seconds is enough time to overtake

3. You only take a signal of the GPS satellite, so you can use billions of boxes without an collapse

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Stupid idea by some self-proclaimed "bright" people


Do you have some problems? Jealousy? You can talk with arguments but without a reason such stupid comments.......dingy. If you would truly understand the reason why it is useful, you wouldn’t talk such things.

Cheers
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