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  #21  
Old 16.03.2011, 15:20
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Re: passenger back seat belts

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When I was on holiday in Hawaii, I was driving a rented SUV along
a one lane highway, and came across signs to slow down, traffic
signal ahead, and I slowed down, and came to a full stop at the red light. About 20 seconds later, I hear the sound of crash, and my head slams against the steering wheel. The driver driving a convertible crashed into me, forcing my SUV into the car in front of me.

I had minor bleeding around the eye area, and the police and ambulance came, and they were asking me, were you wearing a seat belt, and I definitely was. An ambulance took me to the ER (the paramedics
announce we have another sandwich here) to get tetanus shots, and
wound area cleaned up. Now being that Hawaii is a no fault-state, the
$6,000 damage to my rental car was billed to me. (Thank g-d my
credit card insurance took care of it at the end).
And your point is? You were injured with your seatbelt on.
- The injuries would probably have been way worse without it.
- The injuries would probably have been way less with an airbag.

Seatbelts were introduced in the 60s. I do not know how many thousand tests have shown that while having minor side effects they probably saved millions of lives up to now. Are you seriously trying to make a point that we should not wear them?
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  #22  
Old 16.03.2011, 15:38
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Re: passenger back seat belts

That is the argument in Freakonomics.

The seat belt is cheap - and save the majority of lives to be saved in an accident. Airbags cost quite a bit - but save a fair few lives - but no way near the same number. Every safety invention costs more - and incremently saves few people. Per life saved they become very expensive.

Further more, there is very little evidence that a child seat significently decreases the risk of death over and above a 3-point belt. However, there is a belief that some injuries aren't as bad.

I've gone into a barrier after a my differential seized at 130mph. I was wearing an FIA approved helmet, in an FIA approved roll-cage, in a seat with side impact head protection - and a 6-pt harness. And walked out with only a minor neckache. Do not underestimate the effectiveness of the seat-belt.
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  #23  
Old 16.03.2011, 15:38
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Re: passenger back seat belts

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In the United States, there is no laws on compulsory wearing of seat
belts for rear back passengers, and in my decades there I never saw
it practiced. And the state of New Hampshire has no seat belt laws
at all!

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_legislation

it lists Canada, Spain, United States as having no rear seat belt
legislation.


Wiki even has as section on side-effects on seat belts:

Side-effects of seat belts

Critics have pointed to fatalities and injuries caused by wearing seat-belts. Chest injury may cause cardiac arrest, lung bruises are amongst the most common causes of death by seat-belts especially for people of weak heart such as the elderly who can also suffer a heart attack and not be able to free from the seatbelt in order to get to help. In neck injury cases, the deceleration from a high-speed impact can cause a seat-belt wearer's head to continue forward suddenly while the body is restrained, potentially causing paralyzing injuries. A study of such injuries notes "Seatbelts save lives. However, they may cause injury to adjacent structures and when they malfunction can cause injury to the abdominal viscera, bony skeleton and vascular structures. The motor industry has attempted to reduce these injuries by modification of vehicle design and safety equipment."

^
Smith, J. E. (2005). Injuries caused by seatbelt - Trauma. tra.sagepub.com. pp. Vol. 7, No. 4, 211–215. http://tra.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/7/4/211.
Wiki is not correct/is misleading as it presents the driver/back seat information for Canada.

The province of Ontario (one example and I think the other provinces follow the same logic) requires ALL passengers to wear a seat-belt if there are seat-belts in the car (this exempts old-time cars without factory installed belts).

It is the personal responsiblitiy of all people over the age of 16 to wear one. For children under 16, it is the responsibility of the driver to make sure the children are buckled up. In the latter case, the driver will be fined.

Link: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/sou...c_s06025_e.htm

There is separate legislation dealing with enfant/children's seats similar to in CH (did not look that one up).
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Last edited by Verbier; 16.03.2011 at 15:44. Reason: added a point.
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  #24  
Old 16.03.2011, 15:39
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Re: passenger back seat belts

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And your point is? You were injured with your seatbelt on.
- The injuries would probably have been way worse without it.
- The injuries would probably have been way less with an airbag.

Seatbelts were introduced in the 60s. I do not know how many thousand tests have shown that while having minor side effects they probably saved millions of lives up to now. Are you seriously trying to make a point that we should not wear them?
I was just sharing my experience of being hit from behind, while
waiting at a red light. I had no intention of pointing out anything,
but I absolutely agree that if I was not wearing my seat belt, my
injuries would have been much more severe.

The airbags did not deploy in my case.
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  #25  
Old 18.03.2011, 12:43
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Re: passenger back seat belts

In Spain you definitely all passengers must wear seatbelts.
A lot of out of date info out there and a bit like the forum people are often blind to some ofl the details provided.
Apart from the damage avoided to oneself by wearing them, I don't want my passengers being ejected towards me or other passengers like missiles anyway.
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  #26  
Old 29.06.2011, 23:46
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Legality of carrying passengers in a van

Is it legal to have people travel in the cargo part of a van (e.g. small van with only seats at the front and cargo area in the back. There's a bench in the back for people to sit in, but no seat belts.
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  #27  
Old 29.06.2011, 23:53
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Re: Legality of carrying passengers in a van

Very illegal. Every passenger in a vehicle must have a proper seat with a functioning (and approved) seat belt.

edit: found the related thread and merged them.
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  #28  
Old 30.06.2011, 00:12
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Re: Legality of carrying passengers in a van

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Is it legal to have people travel in the cargo part of a van (e.g. small van with only seats at the front and cargo area in the back. There's a bench in the back for people to sit in, but no seat belts.
Many school buses were using large vans with bench seats for children, and about 6 months ago these were made illegal. Only city passenger buses are allowed to run without seat belts.
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  #29  
Old 30.06.2011, 00:18
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Re: passenger back seat belts

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The fact is that most people don't. It's pretty normal, most people will ask their friends questions & the rest is pretty obvious, definitely not something I would consider buying a book about.
For CHF 15,-- you would be well informed on all aspects of Swiss life, as the title suggests, not just driving. Even Swiss roundabout procedure is explained, which I am sure you are aware is different to most countries.

In my opinion this book gives priceless information to anyone moving here.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...land&x=15&y=16

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/19...qid=1309382122
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  #30  
Old 30.06.2011, 00:26
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Re: passenger back seat belts

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Is it law to wear seat belts for adult passengers traveling in car back seats?

I know safety issues and all, just wanted to check what Swiss law say about this.

What about in Germany, Italy, France etc?

Info pls.
I hope your kidding when I have kids adults front or backseats I refuse to drive until have seatbelts on
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  #31  
Old 30.06.2011, 00:44
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Re: Legality of carrying passengers in a van

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Many school buses were using large vans with bench seats for children, and about 6 months ago these were made illegal. Only city passenger buses are allowed to run without seat belts.
thanks. any link to this? some of the posts above mention it's ok not to wear a seat belt for old cars which didn't have them already installed and i wondered if the same rule applies to someone sitting on a bench in the back where there is no seatbelt instealled.
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  #32  
Old 30.06.2011, 01:17
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Re: passenger back seat belts

Referring to buses (except city buses and Post buses):

From the TCS

Prescriptions légales

Le port de la ceinture de sécurité dans les cars a été rendu obligatoire en 2006 à condition que ces véhicules en soient équipés. Depuis cette même année, tous les cars nouvellement immatriculés doivent être munis de ceintures ventrales. En outre, les enfants de moins de 4 ans doivent, depuis le 1er avril 2010, être installés dans un siège spécial.

Bus scolaires

La loi traitant les bus scolaires (jusqu'à 3,5 t) comme les voitures de tourisme, les enfants jusqu'à l'âge de 12 ans, qui mesurent moins de 150 cm, doivent être protégés par un dispositif de retenue spécialement adapté (par exemple un siège d'enfant ou un rehausseur). Sont exceptées les places assises spécialement prévues pour les enfants dans les bus scolaires. Ces places sont mentionnées dans le permis de circulation et les enfants ne doivent y être installés moyennant un siège spécial que
jusqu'à l'âge de 4 ans. Depuis 2010, tous les bus scolaires doivent être équipés de ceintures de sécurité (au moins ventrales).

Google (with some clean up):

The wearing of seat belts in buses became mandatory in 2006, provided that such vehicles are equipped. Since that year, all newly registered buses must be equipped with lap belts. In addition, children under 4 years must, since 1 April 2010, be installed in a special seat.

The law dealing with school buses (up to 3.5 t) as passenger cars, children up to age 12, who are less than 150 cm, must be protected by a specially designed restraint (eg a child seat or booster). This does not apply specifically provided seats for children on school buses. These places are mentioned in the registration card and children should be settled through a special seat that until the age of 4 years. Since 2010, all school buses must be equipped with seat belts (at least ventral).

Link: http://www.tcs.ch/main/fr/home/der_t...h_110621_F.pdf
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  #33  
Old 30.06.2011, 10:50
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Re: passenger back seat belts

Modern vans have extra (fold away)seating but with seatbelts.
As far as I know older cars must have seatbelts installed nowadays, at a terrific price or not use backseats. Vans with seats that have no belts cannot carry passengers in those seats.
But who on earth would want to?
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  #34  
Old 30.06.2011, 11:13
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Re: passenger back seat belts

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In every European country is the law pretty much the same: You have to buckle up. If you don't, you will get fined.

I do not think this is Europe exclusive either - the only country I am aware of where people do not buckle up on the back seat is China.

The only exception I am aware of in Europe are classic cars. My mom used to drive a 1950s car that did not have seat belts on the back seat - they were not standard back then. the German law at least did not enforce her to modify the car.
In the States it is not required
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  #35  
Old 30.06.2011, 11:16
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Re: passenger back seat belts

What kind of vehicle were you driving in Hawaii?
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  #36  
Old 30.06.2011, 11:23
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Re: passenger back seat belts

Interestingly I saw a couple get in their 5 series. Woman driving. Man in back, with child on lap and a single seat-belt strapped across them both...

(I say woman and man - rather than parents - as from their age, I guessed that they might be young grandparents, as they also had no child seats in the car.)

Unfortunately they drove off before I could point out that in the case of an accident, the adult's body weight would crush the child against the seatbelt...

Hope they made it home OK.
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  #37  
Old 30.06.2011, 11:40
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Re: passenger back seat belts

PaddyG is right, older cars that weren't fitted with seatbelts originally are exempt from this, we have a couple of classic Minis in this category. However, if seatbelts have then been added it is illegal to remove them when restoring the car to its original state. We don't usually have passengers in the back seats (far too uncomfortable), but it is allowed.
Oh, yes; and they're capable of doing a lot more than 10 kilometres an hour....
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  #38  
Old 30.06.2011, 13:49
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Re: passenger back seat belts

I once saw a guy driving his car with a kid of around four on his lap but he did not even bother with the seatbelt. Do people not realise that kids on laps in effect become airbags in a crash

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Interestingly I saw a couple get in their 5 series. Woman driving. Man in back, with child on lap and a single seat-belt strapped across them both...

(I say woman and man - rather than parents - as from their age, I guessed that they might be young grandparents, as they also had no child seats in the car.)

Unfortunately they drove off before I could point out that in the case of an accident, the adult's body weight would crush the child against the seatbelt...

Hope they made it home OK.
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  #39  
Old 30.06.2011, 19:02
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Re: passenger back seat belts

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In every European country is the law pretty much the same: You have to buckle up. If you don't, you will get fined.

I do not think this is Europe exclusive either - the only country I am aware of where people do not buckle up on the back seat is China.

The only exception I am aware of in Europe are classic cars. My mom used to drive a 1950s car that did not have seat belts on the back seat - they were not standard back then. the German law at least did not enforce her to modify the car.
In Romania for example you're not required to. Until some 10 years ago it wasn't even mandatory for the front seats

But I always hoped common sense would win vs a stupid law
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Old 31.01.2012, 17:14
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Re: passenger back seat belts

Does anyone know what the rules are for classic cars that have no seat belts? Is it OK to get these retrofitted or will that still not be enough for the insurers?
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