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  #21  
Old 12.04.2011, 08:37
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

Jesus people, the guy seemed to have made a simple mistake! There's a lot of unnecessary finger-pointing and anger (righteous indignation?) here this morning (killing people?, seriously?). The "priority to the right" rule only comes into force if there are no effing traffic lights or other indication.

OP, I can only presume your were in the left-turn only lane, hence the reaction of the other drivers.

Hell, I was looking for a place to park near the Bärengraben on Sunday, according to my wife, I ran at least 2 red lights.
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  #22  
Old 12.04.2011, 08:39
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

In the OPs post it was at TRAFFIC LIGHTS.

Priority to the right doesn't apply. My guess is he mis-read the traffic light filters and went straight instead of left or right (depending on the lane).

If a road crosses a pavement it ceases to have priority at a junction.

Flattened kerbs do not have priority.

Priority to the right only applies in certain areas. There is a blanket application in 30kmh zones (unless) specifically signposted.

Elsewhere any unmarked junctions = priority to the right.

It isn't actually that difficult - and I think we have managed to thoroughly confuse the OP.
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  #23  
Old 12.04.2011, 08:56
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

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The rule is that you MUST give way to all traffic coming from your right hand side! You MUST get some driving lessons now!

Exceptionally when there is a sign that you have priority then you do not have to stop!
Please get some advice VERY soon, before you kill someone.

And if you are a troll, I will come round and kill you!

You are unbelievably dangerous man, I can't believe you are still alive!
Prozac anyone?

I found out that most of the people who are from outside the city and are not used to the street here in Basel tend to be the stressful and dangerous one to follow. I always keep my distance because they don't know where they go, what is coming next. They drive above the speed limit, are changing direction fast and commit more mistakes.

I don't blame them but I do blame the Swiss road system where signs are to close to the changing lane, when it is so easy to miss an exist because it is showed at the very last minute, etc. I saw that only here to be honest.

If you don't know the city well and its street, it can be a real challenge to drive. I find it more stressful to drive here than in a city of 20 millions of people.
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  #24  
Old 12.04.2011, 09:13
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

In Geneva in some roads we have a road marking which is a broken white line following around a bend at a crossroads.Even if you are continuing along the road, you have to give way to the right, and I have noticed that many people have no understanding of this road sîgn, hence plenty of near misses. as far as I know there have been no deaths reported.
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Old 12.04.2011, 09:17
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

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The rule is that you MUST give way to all traffic coming from your right hand side! You MUST get some driving lessons now!
Exceptionally when there is a sign that you have priority then you do not have to stop!
Please get some advice VERY soon, before you kill someone.
And if you are a troll, I will come round and kill you!
You are unbelievably dangerous man, I can't believe you are still alive!

Christ, Ittigen. Get a hobby or something, won't you?

(Actually, I'm starting to think you're maybe a Troll - I mean, no one can really be as self righteous, angry & anal as you come across here, can they?)
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  #26  
Old 12.04.2011, 09:20
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

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In Geneva in some roads we have a road marking which is a broken white line following around a bend at a crossroads.Even if you are continuing along the road, you have to give way to the right, and I have noticed that many people have no understanding of this road sîgn, hence plenty of near misses. as far as I know there have been no deaths reported.
Yep - that is the "classic" road marking for priority to the right. I even remember them on the Lego T-Junctions plates
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Old 12.04.2011, 09:49
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

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I found out that most of the people who are from outside the city and are not used to the street here in Basel tend to be the stressful and dangerous one to follow. I always keep my distance because they don't know where they go, what is coming next. They drive above the speed limit, are changing direction fast and commit more mistakes.

I don't blame them but I do blame the Swiss road system where signs are to close to the changing lane, when it is so easy to miss an exist because it is showed at the very last minute, etc. I saw that only here to be honest.

If you don't know the city well and its street, it can be a real challenge to drive. I find it more stressful to drive here than in a city of 20 millions of people.
I agree, although my experience concerning Basel is rather limited. In Zurich, for instance, almost every place that is prone to stop-and-go traffic and long standing lines has the signs for changing lanes at spots where you can see them only when it is way too late.

When I was a kid, my dad, who lived in St. Gallen, said, "In Zurich, and in many other places in this country, most sign posts are put up only for those who know where to go anyway." That hasn't improved much to this day.

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Yep - that is the "classic" road marking for priority to the right. I even remember them on the Lego T-Junctions plates
Then it must be true.
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  #28  
Old 12.04.2011, 10:03
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

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In Zurich, for instance, almost every place that is prone to stop-and-go traffic and long standing lines has the signs for changing lanes at spots where you can see them only when it is way too late.
Or they've changed them for the underwear-staining mini-roundabouts which are priority from the right. All well and good that I know the rule to stop and wait for the car to pull out on my right but I always take a sharp intake of breath hoping that the chap behind me is also fully abreast of the rules...

Fortunately, the ones round by us are in 30km/h zones so at least the car behind me has got a good chance of stopping.
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  #29  
Old 12.04.2011, 10:30
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

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by the way, we dont seem to have a conclusion if the traffic on the right ALWAYS have the right of way as somebody suggested earlier. I already counted a few exceptions...
The conclusion is really easy: Not ALWAYS, but per DEFAULT. The idea of traffic lights and signs is to over-rule this default where necessary.

I know that this is different from the US, but we have more examples: The speed limit in not indicated everywhere, if there is no sign the default for a type of road applies. Do you know the defaul speed limits for city, secondary road, main road, highway?

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In the OPs post it was at TRAFFIC LIGHTS.

Priority to the right doesn't apply. My guess is he mis-read the traffic light filters and went straight instead of left or right (depending on the lane).
My theory is a bit different: AFAIK are there plenty of traffic lights in the US in the middle or even "back" of a crossing. So the light you are looking at rules over the crossing in front of it. Here, a light ALWAYS stands before the crossing. So if there were two crossings next to each other, which is normal in a village here - the first without and the second with lights - the OP maybe misunderstood the light as a right of way for the first one.
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Old 12.04.2011, 10:41
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

Here's another idea: even when sure you have priority, if someone comes from your right, be careful. They might not stop and then even if you're right, why go through the hassle. I've been in this situation here a few times and I just stopped, waved them through, they smiled, problem solved
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  #31  
Old 12.04.2011, 10:44
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

I'm currently learning to drive and even after three weeks of intense studying for the theory test, I still made five mistakes out of the allowed fourteen. Driving here is complicated, no surprises there Go get some lessons or at least study the rules of the road, there is even an iPhone app for that, available in English too... Or software for the computer.
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  #32  
Old 12.04.2011, 10:54
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_to_the_right
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  #33  
Old 12.04.2011, 10:58
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

You should also look out for these two signs (excuse the size difference--Google images). The first one means that you have priority (i.e. no one on the right has priority):



The second is the opposite: Priority has come to an end--you no longer have priority so look out on the right where cars have no yield (or give way) signs:



This is common in most of Europe except UK and Ireland (where they drive on the left, but don't have the equivalent which would be give way to the left). Incidentally many signs are standardised in Europe (with the exception of Ireland which uses North American/Australian yellow triangles) so when you learn the signs here, you can use that knowledge across the continent.
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  #34  
Old 12.04.2011, 12:36
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

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You should also look out for these two signs (excuse the size difference--Google images). The first one means that you have priority (i.e. no one on the right has priority):



The second is the opposite: Priority has come to an end--you no longer have priority so look out on the right where cars have no yield (or give way) signs:



This is common in most of Europe except UK and Ireland (where they drive on the left, but don't have the equivalent which would be give way to the left). Incidentally many signs are standardised in Europe (with the exception of Ireland which uses North American/Australian yellow triangles) so when you learn the signs here, you can use that knowledge across the continent.
I checked again today, and surely there is a priority sign (no black lines in the yellow square) on that stretch of the road. Its a 60km/hr road, so it wouldnt make sense from a dynamics point of view not to have such forward priority. BUT, there are two lanes, one through and one left turn, and they both have lights. Maybe I mistaken these as it was suggested earlier.

But, maybe in Binningen things are different, that you MUST yield regardless of a "no need to yield" sign that you have, and cars can come to a complete stop from 60km/hr in just 10 meters...never been there myself
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  #35  
Old 12.04.2011, 12:45
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

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I checked again today, and surely there is a priority sign (no black lines in the yellow square) on that stretch of the road. Its a 60km/hr road, so it wouldnt make sense from a dynamics point of view not to have such forward priority. BUT, there are two lanes, one through and one left turn, and they both have lights. Maybe I mistaken these as it was suggested earlier.
Posting the Google maps/street view URL might explain a lot...
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Old 12.04.2011, 12:49
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

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I checked again today, and surely there is a priority sign (no black lines in the yellow square) on that stretch of the road. Its a 60km/hr road, so it wouldnt make sense from a dynamics point of view not to have such forward priority. BUT, there are two lanes, one through and one left turn, and they both have lights. Maybe I mistaken these as it was suggested earlier.
As per post from nomadicfoodie, it's all documented in the Wikipedia article. Don't worry--I didn't know this rule for the first year of driving here--I guess I was lucky.

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Old 12.04.2011, 12:59
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

Priority from the right eventually sank in for me; second nature now. However, I have seen a couple of shocking near-misses, including one near Spreitenbach, where someone just 'enforced' (i.e. just drove out onto the main road without even looking..) his priority onto the main road (enforcing one's priority is not allowed). What I still can't handle, or get used to, is turning right out of a junction onto a main road (given I have priority) without looking to my left. That I just cannot do. But I see a lot of people doing so; similar to the pedestrians who just suddenly turn off the pavement and proceed to walk across the zebra crossing without looking left..

Off topic a bit, but driving onto the motorway has another phenomena. When driving, I see quite a few drivers on the sliproad intending to enter the motorway, but their entrance point is blocked by another car, lorry, whatever, which is traveling parallel to them on the motorway lane. They do not slow down to nip in behind the blocking vehicle, but maintain the same speed and then continue to drive on the hard-shoulder (where there could be bits of rubbish, stones, car-parts, broken-down cars, etc. lying around) parallel to the other vehicle until they can enter the motorway... Quite dangerous. This behaviour, incidentally, is endorsed by TCS (it is in their brochure) !!

(Talking of TCS, you can order a lot of information material from them regarding road-rules, behaviour, etc. Not downloadable as PDF's, so they are delivered by post.)
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Old 12.04.2011, 14:25
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

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Off topic a bit, but driving onto the motorway has another phenomena. When driving, I see quite a few drivers on the sliproad intending to enter the motorway, but their entrance point is blocked by another car, lorry, whatever, which is traveling parallel to them on the motorway lane. They do not slow down to nip in behind the blocking vehicle, but maintain the same speed and then continue to drive on the hard-shoulder (where there could be bits of rubbish, stones, car-parts, broken-down cars, etc. lying around) parallel to the other vehicle until they can enter the motorway... Quite dangerous. This behaviour, incidentally, is endorsed by TCS (it is in their brochure) !!

(Talking of TCS, you can order a lot of information material from them regarding road-rules, behaviour, etc. Not downloadable as PDF's, so they are delivered by post.)
This is actually only allowed if the alternative were stopping or coming to a really low speed on the access road. If it's only about slowing down a little bit so that you can fit in after an other car you should definitely not drive on the hard-shoulder
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Old 12.04.2011, 14:52
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

Now I am really confused, driving through Glarus in peak hour traffic yesterday, I commented to my wife when I got home how polite the drivers were there compared to Zurich. I was on the main road and a lot of drivers stopped to let some (but not all) traffic in off side streets. Most of the side streets (if I recall correctly) had a white line across them indicating to stop and give way. So are these people polite or just following the rules? I also let a few people in just to be polite as I was travelling at walking pace only.
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Old 12.04.2011, 14:55
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Re: crazy swiss driving habit, or is it me?

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Now I am really confused, driving through Glarus in peak hour traffic yesterday, I commented to my wife when I got home how polite the drivers were there compared to Zurich. I was on the main road and a lot of drivers stopped to let some (but not all) traffic in off side streets. Most of the side streets (if I recall correctly) had a white line across them indicating to stop and give way. So are these people polite or just following the rules? I also let a few people in just to be polite as I was travelling at walking pace only.
That was being polite!!

I can't believe there is such confusion
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