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Old 27.04.2011, 17:14
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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They expect that motorbikes should sit in traffic, like the cars around them, and not "queue-jump", and get quite put out to think that we can do this. Unfortunately, from what I see, many riders (Swiss(?)) actually do just wait in line. What this country needs is a proper express motorcycle dispatch service - that would open up a few peoples eyes.
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this cracks me up, in no other aspect of swiss life do they queue for anything, they will physically push woman and small children out of there way on the ski lifts, check outs, trains, buses etc. But give them a traffic jam and they will do anything, ANYTHING to stop a bike getting past.
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unfortunatly not the case in zurich I see em looking in there mirrors then moving over to block, still doesn't stop me though
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To filter or not to filter is a seperate discussion... personally I filter to get to the front of traffic for my own safety. Regardless of what the laws and local attitude is. Would rather get fined or have an unfortunate incident such as this than be dead!
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There is no point in sometimes getting cold and wet, plus the increased danger, if we can't split traffic, get to the head of the queue and get to our destination quicker. You don't ride a motorbike to sit behind cars, buses or lorries, breathing in their fumes - but for the freedom of the open road.
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Sorry, but i am pretty new to driving and stuff but can anyone tell me why is it not safe to wait in a queue inbetween the cars? Why will i be killed if i am waiting in a queue on a motorbike
(Disclaimer...I also ride a bike and filter whenever possible)

BUT I've got bad news for many of you...filtering is actually illegal here and enforced by the police with some fairly hefty fines if they see you.
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Old 27.04.2011, 17:15
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

It might do more harm than good, but in Geneva you can find out who the lady is (or at least who the car is registered to) by sending an SMS to 939, with the license plate number, for example: GE 123 456. It's gonna cost you 2 francs, but at the very least you could politely ask the lady for an explanation.
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  #23  
Old 27.04.2011, 17:16
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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Sorry, but i am pretty new to driving and stuff but can anyone tell me why is it not safe to wait in a queue inbetween the cars? Why will i be killed if i am waiting in a queue on a motorbike
Because when the queue of traffic sets off, if the front guy doesn't check his blind spot and turns, you end up spanking into the side of a car. I remember seeing loads of traffic safety ads in the UK about this.

It makes no sense to me to prevent (motor)cyclists from moving to the front of the queue in order to avoid the risk of this happening.
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Old 27.04.2011, 17:16
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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It might do more harm than good, but in Geneva you can find out who the lady is (or at least who the car is registered to) by sending an SMS to 939, with the license plate number, for example: GE 123 456. It's gonna cost you 2 francs, but at the very least you could politely ask the lady for an explanation.
Yeah, that won't half look like some mad road-rage biking stalker
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  #25  
Old 27.04.2011, 17:21
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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(Disclaimer...I also ride a bike and filter whenever possible)

BUT I've got bad news for many of you...filtering is actually illegal here and enforced by the police with some fairly hefty fines if they see you.
Understood that it illegal here. Choose to do it anyhow as I believe it's safer. I will happily pay a fine if/when caught.

Does this make it ok for some old girl to run me down though?
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  #26  
Old 27.04.2011, 17:27
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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(Disclaimer...I also ride a bike and filter whenever possible)

BUT I've got bad news for many of you...filtering is actually illegal here and enforced by the police with some fairly hefty fines if they see you.
Some knob on a Vespa obviously knows an effective alternative to “filtering” by bumping up on the pavement (Brandschenkestrasse, ZH) and razzing past the evening rush-hour traffic stopped at the lights. As he came up behind me, minding my own business walking along, he tooted his horn to get me to move to one side so he could go past. My jaw nearly hit the ground.
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  #27  
Old 27.04.2011, 17:28
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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Understood that it illegal here. Choose to do it anyhow as I believe it's safer. I will happily pay a fine if/when caught.

Does this make it ok for some old girl to run me down though?
I'm pretty sure jay-walking is illegal too... I wouldn't run down a pedestrian on that logic!
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Old 27.04.2011, 17:39
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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(Disclaimer...I also ride a bike and filter whenever possible)

BUT I've got bad news for many of you...filtering is actually illegal here and enforced by the police with some fairly hefty fines if they see you.
Not in Ticino, I (and everyone else) filter past cops on a regular basis, I've never heard of anyone being stopped for it here.

Tom
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  #29  
Old 27.04.2011, 17:40
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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Understood that it illegal here. Choose to do it anyhow as I believe it's safer. I will happily pay a fine if/when caught.

Does this make it ok for some old girl to run me down though?
Nope and not at all what I was saying. Just wanted to make the others who appeared to be unaware, aware. Particularly given the general Swiss attitude of self-policing.

As I said, I also do it. Carefully!

Last edited by baboon; 27.04.2011 at 18:20.
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Old 27.04.2011, 17:42
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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I'm pretty sure jay-walking is illegal too... I wouldn't run down a pedestrian on that logic!
Ah but surely if you saw the jay-wlaker, you'd swerve over to prove the point that they shouldn't do it.

And if, say, you happened to run over their foot, you'd lock your door, wind up your window, and then bump into them until they got out of your way and let you make good your escape.

Surely that's what any of us would do... right? Right...?

If I were you, I'd

1. Pay the 2 CHF and get her address from the licence plate
2. Spend an hour or so of my time writing a letter detailing the location and the actions that she took and telling her that you intend to instruct your lawyer (insert googled name of prominent expensive legal firm here) to pursue criminal damages against her for personal injury and damage to property (preferably in English and not including your own personal info - no need to get into a tit-for-tat)
3. Send it to her and forget the rest

Worst case, she'll ignore it, but you'll feel better for having sent it; best case, she'll get paranoid and waste hours worrying about it, and potentially money getting legal advice that she'll never need.

Could seem a bit like picking on / worrying a little old lady, but then however old / small / female she might be, she ran over your foot, ignored you, and then nudged/pushed you out of her way to avoid any recompense - This Hostility Will Not Stand.
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  #31  
Old 27.04.2011, 17:49
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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And if, say, you happened to run over their foot, you'd lock your door, wind up your window, and then bump into them until they got out of your way and let you make good your escape.

Surely that's what any of us would do... right? Right...?
For that reason I have a 150dB air horn.... usually they just leap back onto the footpath

Note that the horn is also illegal but useful in the interests of safety
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  #32  
Old 27.04.2011, 18:25
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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Understood that it illegal here. Choose to do it anyhow as I believe it's safer. I will happily pay a fine if/when caught.

Does this make it ok for some old girl to run me down though?
It does NOT make it safer as people aren't expecting you to do it. Like they aren't expecting you to run red lights or not adhere to other traffic rules.

It's nice that all the boy bikers on this thread agree with you. But I see it more like DB described. If a crazed non law abiding biker started banging on my window and trying to illegally detain me I'd be trying to leg it too.

I'm sorry she rolled over your foot. But it would seem she didn't know she did that and thus didn't understand why you were crazily trying to stop her.

As the police told you, had she injured you and left the scene then they would have got in touch with her.

Maybe you should look at it from another perspective. I suggest you NOT contract her. You've probably scared her already and you are not injured so maybe let it drop, eh?
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  #33  
Old 27.04.2011, 18:54
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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It does NOT make it safer as people aren't expecting you to do it. Like they aren't expecting you to run red lights or not adhere to other traffic rules.

It's nice that all the boy bikers on this thread agree with you. But I see it more like DB described. If a crazed non law abiding biker started banging on my window and trying to illegally detain me I'd be trying to leg it too.

I'm sorry she rolled over your foot. But it would seem she didn't know she did that and thus didn't understand why you were crazily trying to stop her.

As the police told you, had she injured you and left the scene then they would have got in touch with her.

Maybe you should look at it from another perspective. I suggest you NOT contract her. You've probably scared her already and you are not injured so maybe let it drop, eh?
Had it been an accident and had this person not realised what they were doing I would be inclined to agree. The fact is though, that she actually turned into me. When the front wheel hit my foot and looked down to see that it was steering toward me. Add to this that her reaction was completely not fazed I believe it was a deliberate and malicious act. Why is this no different to aggravated assault? How illegal what I is not the point. My issue is the level of ambivalence to someone trying to hurt an other. If I shot someone who just happened to be wearing a bulletproof vest and turns out ok, the fact is I still shot them. An extreme analogy, but hopefully you get my point.
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  #34  
Old 27.04.2011, 19:18
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

I think I know who the lady was ...

real story: for everybody's information!
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  #35  
Old 27.04.2011, 19:21
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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Had it been an accident and had this person not realised what they were doing I would be inclined to agree. The fact is though, that she actually turned into me. When the front wheel hit my foot and looked down to see that it was steering toward me. Add to this that her reaction was completely not fazed I believe it was a deliberate and malicious act. Why is this no different to aggravated assault? How illegal what I is not the point. My issue is the level of ambivalence to someone trying to hurt an other. If I shot someone who just happened to be wearing a bulletproof vest and turns out ok, the fact is I still shot them. An extreme analogy, but hopefully you get my point.
I do see you point of course. I wasn't there so I can't know what happened. And neither of us knows what she knew or didn't know or what she was thinking.

It is possible that she didn't see you "filtering" and that she wouldn't even expect you to be "filtering" if it's illegal in GVA. Or that she was trying to stop you from filtering by getting in your way.

What happened next is to me basically a huge misunderstanding. She probably had no clue that she ran over your foot & though you were angry for having been blocked and that you were attacking her.

So, that now puts her (in her mind) on the defensive. I don't know what you look like, but I'm sure she assumed she wouldn't be able to defend herself if she go out of the car and thus resort to using the car to get herself out of there.

I'm not saying what she did was right, just saying you should maybe try to look at it from her perspective. I don't think that most people, even those "oppressed Swiss*" people, try to run people down for fun. Thankfully you were not hurt. But that also means that there is no resolution to the issue.



(The idea that Swiss people go out and try to run people over because they are somehow "frustrated over a lifetime of oppressive petty rules" is ridiculous. Put that's another topic for another day.)
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  #36  
Old 27.04.2011, 19:26
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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I do see you point of course. I wasn't there so I can't know what happened. And neither of us knows what she knew or didn't know or what she was thinking.

It is possible that she didn't see you "filtering" and that she wouldn't even expect you to be "filtering" if it's illegal in GVA. Or that she was trying to stop you from filtering by getting in your way.

What happened next is to me basically a huge misunderstanding. She probably had no clue that she ran over your foot & though you were angry for having been blocked and that you were attacking her.

So, that now puts her (in her mind) on the defensive. I don't know what you look like, but I'm sure she assumed she wouldn't be able to defend herself if she go out of the car and thus resort to using the car to get herself out of there.

I'm not saying what she did was right, just saying you should maybe try to look at it from her perspective. I don't think that most people, even those "oppressed Swiss*" people, try to run people down for fun. Thankfully you were not hurt. But that also means that there is no resolution to the issue.



(The idea that Swiss people go out and try to run people over because they are somehow "frustrated over a lifetime of oppressive petty rules" is ridiculous. Put that's another topic for another day.)
All true. But she did try to run somebody over. The reason is secondary. Even if she did feel threatened or provoked, people who have so little self control as to resort to such actions shouldn't be allowed to drive.
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  #37  
Old 27.04.2011, 19:30
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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It's nice that all the boy bikers on this thread agree with you.
Please ..... not so much of the boy bikers -- some of us are old git bikers (well speaking personally, at least).
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  #38  
Old 27.04.2011, 20:06
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

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All true. But she did try to run somebody over. The reason is secondary. Even if she did feel threatened or provoked, people who have so little self control as to resort to such actions shouldn't be allowed to drive.
Oh. I'd love to get a whole lot of people off the road!!

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Please ..... not so much of the boy bikers -- some of us are old git bikers (well speaking personally, at least).
Well, you're still a male person.
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  #39  
Old 27.04.2011, 21:14
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

MiniMia makes a good point. In the heat of the moment we all react without thinking. The lady driver did, so did you tmcwhirter. Suddenly an accident turns into something nastier. You just have to remember how her lawyer might present this in cross examination:

Tell me Mr. tmcwhirter, could you describe the manoeuver which led up to the incident:

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At the time I was filtering between the outside lane of traffic and a row or parked cars about to turn right.
Why did you do this?

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I filter to get to the front of traffic
Counsel for the defense looks at the judge. "So you admit you were committing an illegal manoeuver in order to jump the queue? "

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I filter to get to the front of traffic..... Regardless of what the laws and local attitude is.
But you knew it was illegal in Switzerland?

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Understood that it illegal here.
Do you have no respect for Swiss traffic laws?

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Choose to do it anyhow.... I will happily pay a fine if/when caught.
Counsel for defense looks at judge whilst repeating your words very slowly and shaking his head:
"Understood that it illegal here. Choose to do it anyhow.... I will happily pay a fine if/when caught."

Counsel looks at the judge, then back at you and says "After committing this illegal manoeuver, what did you do then?"

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... me honking horn and bashing on the passenger window to stop. I rode around... to block the car...I got off the bike and approached the drivers window the driver... went around my bike. I blocked her again....
Counsel for defense: "So not only did you commit an illegal manoeuver, you threatened my client?"

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I have to make clear that I was not aggressive towards this person.
Counsel for defence looks at judge. His eyebrows shoot up. "Honking horn? Bashing on windows? Blocking the car again and again?" He shakes his head and throws a knowing look at the judge.
"Tell me Mr. tmcwhirter, how did my client react?"

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They just put there window up, locked the doors

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All true. But she did try to run somebody over.
Did she? I assume the plaintiff has witness statements to back this up?
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Old 27.04.2011, 22:34
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Re: Fleeing the scene of an accident/trying to run someone over

Probably right. Foreigner always wrong. Should just pay my taxes and shut up.
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