Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24.05.2011, 22:16
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zurich now London
Posts: 246
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 104 Times in 58 Posts
pabcbc is considered knowledgeablepabcbc is considered knowledgeablepabcbc is considered knowledgeable
Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recent ?

HI, can sbdy explain to me why Zrh is looking for yet another tram model when the most recent one seems new enough ? can't they just order more of the recent model ? just out of interest, thks
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank pabcbc for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 24.05.2011, 22:19
jrspet's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Quaint Wädenswil, Zürich, CH
Posts: 8,131
Groaned at 27 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 7,036 Times in 3,912 Posts
jrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

They heard that Basel is finally getting the current models and are henceforth ordering newer ones to continue to keep ahead
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jrspet for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 24.05.2011, 22:44
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Frankfurt (Ex-Zurich)
Posts: 869
Groaned at 95 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 584 Times in 331 Posts
FrankS has earned the respect of manyFrankS has earned the respect of manyFrankS has earned the respect of many
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

Because the current ones (Cobra) were a custom-made solution for Zurich, and hence expensive, whereas they now look for a standard model in white-blue paint. And they think the Cobras rattle to much.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24.05.2011, 23:06
phdoofus's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: City by the Bay
Posts: 2,357
Groaned at 96 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,227 Posts
phdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

Möneyspenderingung?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24.05.2011, 23:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,940
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,598 Times in 2,882 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

The Cobras got poor feedback, I hate the things, you sometimes can't get out at peak times because of how they jam up. I will miss the Mirage model, even if it meant lifting the odd pram...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24.05.2011, 23:16
Ouchboy's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 3,345
Groaned at 67 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 5,739 Times in 2,182 Posts
Ouchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

Quote:
View Post
The Cobras got poor feedback, I hate the things, you sometimes can't get out at peak times because of how they jam up. I will miss the Mirage model, even if it meant lifting the odd pram...
how do you know the models???



only gamers will understand that reference....
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Ouchboy for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 25.05.2011, 00:33
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,947
Groaned at 294 Times in 198 Posts
Thanked 19,003 Times in 7,991 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

come on train geeks. give us a link to pics and names of the different train types.

i quite like one on the s16 route.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 25.05.2011, 05:34
vwild1
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

Quote:
View Post
come on train tram geeks. give us a link to pics and names of the different train tram types.
Here you go: http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/vbz/de/i...rafahrten.html
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 25.05.2011, 10:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,940
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,598 Times in 2,882 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

The Mirage are the old ones with the wooden seats I actually prefer the next model after that for comfort but wooden seats can be wiped down, as opposed to the fabric ones where many a little child stands on the seats with its little dirty shoes, ruining more than one light-coloured item of clothing for me...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 25.05.2011, 15:07
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,653
Groaned at 279 Times in 230 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

The wooden seats were winning the votes as the seats for the new tram (currently in the consultation process).

The Cobra has relatively poor access - but works well on the long lines - IE where people spend a long time on the tram - and don't quick stop.

The air-con works well on the Cobras!!!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 25.05.2011, 15:28
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

'Mirage' and 'Cobra'..., jeez, I think these tram manufacturers have delusions of grandeur... I've recently been considering up-grading my sci-fi futuristic perambulatory 'black mamba' transportation unit... other-wise known as a skateboard...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 25.05.2011, 15:30
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wadenswil Zurich
Posts: 162
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 228 Times in 88 Posts
golly is considered knowledgeablegolly is considered knowledgeablegolly is considered knowledgeable
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

Quote:
View Post
The Cobras got poor feedback, I hate the things, you sometimes can't get out at peak times because of how they jam up. I will miss the Mirage model, even if it meant lifting the odd pram...
You obviously don't have twins in an extra wide pram. We have to wait for the cobra to come along if we want to catch a tram. We end up walking quite a bit.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank golly for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 25.05.2011, 15:37
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

Quote:
View Post
HI, can sbdy explain to me why Zrh is looking for yet another tram model when the most recent one seems new enough ? can't they just order more of the recent model ? just out of interest, thks
Because Bombardier Transportation, who made the Cobras have said they're not going to make any more.

In fact they didn't even want to make the present lot. It's a design inherited from one of the companies Bombardier took over back in the 1990s and not one that Bombardier was seriously interested in developing further. But back then it was the design Zürich wanted and they twisted Bombardier's arm to make them anyway.

Bombardier have got a bit better organised since then and it's not going to happen again.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 25.05.2011, 15:43
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

Quote:
View Post
'Mirage' and 'Cobra'..., jeez, I think these tram manufacturers have delusions of grandeur... I've recently been considering up-grading my sci-fi futuristic perambulatory 'black mamba' transportation unit... other-wise known as a skateboard...
There's no grandeur in Mirage. The official name of the type was some string of numbers and letters that nobody will ever remember.

The name Mirage is a nickname applied with a not too flattering undertone. The fighter jet after which it was named was very costly and also very loud. When the mirage trams were new people drew unpleasant parallels and the name stuck.

A lot of people call Cobra Klapperschlange BTW.

Last edited by amogles; 25.05.2011 at 16:05.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 25.05.2011, 15:47
lost_inbroad's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Town or region
Posts: 11,491
Groaned at 655 Times in 417 Posts
Thanked 16,388 Times in 6,379 Posts
lost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

Quote:
View Post
Because Bombardier Transportation, who made the Cobras have said they're not going to make any more.

In fact they didn't even want to make the present lot. It's a design inherited from one of the companies Bombardier took over back in the 1990s and not one that Bombardier was seriously interested in developing further. But back then it was the design Zürich wanted and they twisted Bombardier's arm to make them anyway.

Bombardier have got a bit better organised since then and it's not going to happen again.
Quote:
View Post
There's no grandeur in Mirage. The official name of the type was some string of numbers and letters that nobody will ever remember.

The name Mirage is a nickname applied with a not too flattering undertone. The fighter jet after which it was named was very costly and also very loud. When the mirage trams were new people drew unpleasant parallels and the name stuck.
Why do you know all this? (are you in a competition with Wolli?)
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank lost_inbroad for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 25.05.2011, 15:57
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,023
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,558 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

Bartholemew - where for art thou? Your hard core "all things rail" habits are being requested.

Start off here

More reading follows

And finish off with this
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 25.05.2011, 16:08
Slaphead's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,223
Groaned at 34 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 9,408 Times in 2,870 Posts
Slaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

I heard a rumour that the Cobra trams don't corner as well as the older models - we're not talking rolling over when cornering, but just wearing out faster than the old ones, hence costing more to maintain. As I said, however, it's just a rumour

Having spoken to various people including drivers the general consensus is that they're, well, a bit crap really. The only people that do like them are those with prams or pushchairs - but then again with the older trams there was pretty much always somebody on hand to help. God knows how many prams/pushchairs I've helped to load and offload.

Personally I can't wait to see the back of them - (the Cobras that is, not the pram pushers )
__________________
...allegedly.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 25.05.2011, 16:22
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

Quote:
View Post
I heard a rumour that the Cobra trams don't corner as well as the older models - we're not talking rolling over when cornering, but just wearing out faster than the old ones, hence costing more to maintain. As I said, however, it's just a rumour

Having spoken to various people including drivers the general consensus is that they're, well, a bit crap really. The only people that do like them are those with prams or pushchairs - but then again with the older trams there was pretty much always somebody on hand to help. God knows how many prams/pushchairs I've helped to load and offload.

Personally I can't wait to see the back of them - (the Cobras that is, not the pram pushers )
A lot of things went seriously wrong with them.

The design was first conceived by Schindler who proposed to make them out of a lighweight but ultra-strong polymer material which they were developing at that time, but had never actually been used outside of the lab. The wheels were individually pivoted and should have adjusted automatically to reduce wear in curves to virtually zero. It was all very much Tomorrow's World boffin sort of stuff and they built a prototype that was so secret that they only ever tested it at night.

Then Schindler decided to sell its rail business to Adtranz, who were a bit of a useless company from the start and didn't really like the complexity of the design and simplified it all to cut costs, including replacing the lightweight polymer shell by something out of aluminium that they asked Alusuisse to design and Alusuisse gave it to a bunch of baby-faced interns who wrote a simulation software using the wrong formula and so predicted lots of things were fine that later turned out to be unrealistic.

In the meantime Adftranz panicked and sold out to Bombardier who already had several competing tram designs in its portfolio and quietly approach Zurich and asked whether they wouldn't mind converting the order to one of their other designs and Zurich almost said yes but somebody leaked the memo and they got a lot of egg on their face and had to act tough with the evil sales people at Bombardier to pretend to be in control. The first six trams they made differed considerably from the prototype and lost of things hadn't been tested and they spent more time being fixed than actually running. Then somebody decided to specify air conditioning and that added extra weight to a tram that was already far too heavy and the wheel angling thing wasn't working properly and it all caused lots of wear and tear. The pilot run had to go back to the manufacturer who claimed to fix them but in reality they shunted them into the scrap metal bins and built new ones because so much needed to be changed and so little could be salvaged, but when the press caught wind of that they went into denial and re-used some token compenents to be able to claim they were rebuilds.

And when they came back they found some of the problems were fixed but other things had got worse. The wheels have a tendency to form polygons as they are not wearing evenly and that leads to them being very noisy at times and the manufacturer is spending a fortune fixing them.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 25.05.2011, 16:51
borntough's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Horgen
Posts: 231
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 135 Times in 72 Posts
borntough has earned the respect of manyborntough has earned the respect of manyborntough has earned the respect of many
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

Seriously Amogles,
How are you privy to such detailed info on trams?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 25.05.2011, 16:52
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,150
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 4,955 Times in 2,235 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why does ZRH need to select a new new tram rather than ordering more of the recen

I'm happy as long as I see the Bombardier logo all over them. Go Cobra and ICN!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Chemmie for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
E Tram / Cargo Tram (Zurich) lucy_sg Other/general 16 17.02.2012 21:24
Eurail Select Pass - which countries to select and where to go? gamezgirl Travel/day trips/free time 0 11.09.2010 08:06
HELP select the right MTB marchise Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 1 11.09.2009 15:10
How to select a Mountain bike Malinda Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 1 12.06.2009 10:54
Select Comfort Mattress hephorn Housing in general 2 28.09.2008 11:05


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0