HI, can sbdy explain to me why Zrh is looking for yet another tram model when the most recent one seems new enough ? can't they just order more of the recent model ? just out of interest, thks

They heard that Basel is finally getting the current models and are henceforth ordering newer ones to continue to keep ahead

Because the current ones (Cobra) were a custom-made solution for Zurich, and hence expensive, whereas they now look for a standard model in white-blue paint. And they think the Cobras rattle to much.

Möneyspenderingung?

The Cobras got poor feedback, I hate the things, you sometimes can't get out at peak times because of how they jam up. I will miss the Mirage model, even if it meant lifting the odd pram...

how do you know the models???



only gamers will understand that reference....

come on train geeks. give us a link to pics and names of the different train types.

i quite like one on the s16 route.

Here you go: http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/vbz/de/i...rafahrten.html

The Mirage are the old ones with the wooden seats I actually prefer the next model after that for comfort but wooden seats can be wiped down, as opposed to the fabric ones where many a little child stands on the seats with its little dirty shoes, ruining more than one light-coloured item of clothing for me...

The wooden seats were winning the votes as the seats for the new tram (currently in the consultation process).

The Cobra has relatively poor access - but works well on the long lines - IE where people spend a long time on the tram - and don't quick stop.

The air-con works well on the Cobras!!!

'Mirage' and 'Cobra'..., jeez, I think these tram manufacturers have delusions of grandeur... I've recently been considering up-grading my sci-fi futuristic perambulatory 'black mamba' transportation unit... other-wise known as a skateboard...

You obviously don't have twins in an extra wide pram. We have to wait for the cobra to come along if we want to catch a tram. We end up walking quite a bit.

Because Bombardier Transportation, who made the Cobras have said they're not going to make any more.

In fact they didn't even want to make the present lot. It's a design inherited from one of the companies Bombardier took over back in the 1990s and not one that Bombardier was seriously interested in developing further. But back then it was the design Zürich wanted and they twisted Bombardier's arm to make them anyway.

Bombardier have got a bit better organised since then and it's not going to happen again.

There's no grandeur in Mirage. The official name of the type was some string of numbers and letters that nobody will ever remember.

The name Mirage is a nickname applied with a not too flattering undertone. The fighter jet after which it was named was very costly and also very loud. When the mirage trams were new people drew unpleasant parallels and the name stuck.

A lot of people call Cobra Klapperschlange BTW.

Why do you know all this? (are you in a competition with Wolli?)

Bartholemew - where for art thou? Your hard core "all things rail" habits are being requested.

Start off here

More reading follows

And finish off with this

I heard a rumour that the Cobra trams don't corner as well as the older models - we're not talking rolling over when cornering, but just wearing out faster than the old ones, hence costing more to maintain. As I said, however, it's just a rumour

Having spoken to various people including drivers the general consensus is that they're, well, a bit crap really. The only people that do like them are those with prams or pushchairs - but then again with the older trams there was pretty much always somebody on hand to help. God knows how many prams/pushchairs I've helped to load and offload.

Personally I can't wait to see the back of them - (the Cobras that is, not the pram pushers )

__________________
...allegedly.

A lot of things went seriously wrong with them.

The design was first conceived by Schindler who proposed to make them out of a lighweight but ultra-strong polymer material which they were developing at that time, but had never actually been used outside of the lab. The wheels were individually pivoted and should have adjusted automatically to reduce wear in curves to virtually zero. It was all very much Tomorrow's World boffin sort of stuff and they built a prototype that was so secret that they only ever tested it at night.

Then Schindler decided to sell its rail business to Adtranz, who were a bit of a useless company from the start and didn't really like the complexity of the design and simplified it all to cut costs, including replacing the lightweight polymer shell by something out of aluminium that they asked Alusuisse to design and Alusuisse gave it to a bunch of baby-faced interns who wrote a simulation software using the wrong formula and so predicted lots of things were fine that later turned out to be unrealistic.

In the meantime Adftranz panicked and sold out to Bombardier who already had several competing tram designs in its portfolio and quietly approach Zurich and asked whether they wouldn't mind converting the order to one of their other designs and Zurich almost said yes but somebody leaked the memo and they got a lot of egg on their face and had to act tough with the evil sales people at Bombardier to pretend to be in control. The first six trams they made differed considerably from the prototype and lost of things hadn't been tested and they spent more time being fixed than actually running. Then somebody decided to specify air conditioning and that added extra weight to a tram that was already far too heavy and the wheel angling thing wasn't working properly and it all caused lots of wear and tear. The pilot run had to go back to the manufacturer who claimed to fix them but in reality they shunted them into the scrap metal bins and built new ones because so much needed to be changed and so little could be salvaged, but when the press caught wind of that they went into denial and re-used some token compenents to be able to claim they were rebuilds.

And when they came back they found some of the problems were fixed but other things had got worse. The wheels have a tendency to form polygons as they are not wearing evenly and that leads to them being very noisy at times and the manufacturer is spending a fortune fixing them.

Seriously Amogles,
How are you privy to such detailed info on trams?

I'm happy as long as I see the Bombardier logo all over them. Go Cobra and ICN!