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  #41  
Old 10.06.2011, 11:55
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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I wrote "Do not stop on the slip road, that is the worst choice!" You should continue driving on the emergency lane, until you find a space. The thinking is that if you stop you risk being rammed behind by the next car entering the autobahn. Once stopped you also now have to accelerate up to speed with no slip road left, so you either enter the next lane too slowly or you drive up the emergency lane. If you took the trouble to read about the Swiss rules of the road you would already know that wouldn't you?

as usual, ittigen is freaking out about other drivers and what she/he presumes the correct swiss traffic rules are.

my question was, if it is clear that you can not enter the highway without putting yourself and others at risk, should you nevertheless force your way in (i wouldnt) or just stop there and accept the smaller risk with vs. the obvious risk of creating a major traffic accident by forcing your way in?

ittigen, as you see, the structure of question assumes that there may or may not be a shoulder on the above mentioned hypothetical highway, even if it exists it is not available for you to drive without creating major risk...
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  #42  
Old 10.06.2011, 11:56
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

If for whatever reason you couldn't get from the slip road onto the motorway in the UK you'd need to stop. You mustn't use the emergency lane (hard shoulder).

It would be interesting to see where the opposite rule is documented in Switzerland as I'd be too scared to do it (in case, while looking in mirrors and over my shoulder to try and join the motorway I hit some poor person actually using the emergency lane in an emergency).
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  #43  
Old 10.06.2011, 12:02
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

http://www.bfu.ch/german/strassenver...nsstrasse.aspx

When I find the exact statement I will publish it here. It was in the TCS Zeitung last year!

Legally it is not allowed, http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/741_11/a36.html

Sehr geehrter Herr Ittigen

Auf der Standspur (Pannestreifen) darf man nur im Notfall fahren und anhalten.
Für das Suchen einer Lücke zum Einfahren ist meines Erachtens klar nicht gestattet.


Mit freundlichen Grüssen
Dr. Martin Michel,
Lachen

Last edited by Ittigen; 11.06.2011 at 01:06. Reason: Legal advice received
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  #44  
Old 10.06.2011, 12:34
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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http://www.bfu.ch/german/strassenver...nsstrasse.aspx

When I find the exact statement I will publish it here. It was in the TCS Zeitung last year!

Legally it is not allowed, http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/741_11/a36.html
I think this is the stage in the thread that you are supposed to apologise for posing idiotic and downright dangerous statements.
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  #45  
Old 10.06.2011, 12:36
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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I think this is the stage in the thread that you are supposed to apologise for posing idiotic and downright dangerous statements.
Well thank you for that insult! I will refrain from groaning. I told you I would post when I find the info. In the meantime I suggest you take some fresh lessons from a Swiss instructor or a cantonal Vekehrs expert. I have!
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  #46  
Old 10.06.2011, 12:41
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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I wrote "Do not stop on the slip road, that is the worst choice!" You should continue driving on the emergency lane, until you find a space. The thinking is that if you stop you risk being rammed behind by the next car entering the autobahn. Once stopped you also now have to accelerate up to speed with no slip road left, so you either enter the next lane too slowly or you drive up the emergency lane. If you took the trouble to read about the Swiss rules of the road you would already know that wouldn't you?
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Well thank you for that insult! I will refrain from groaning.
Pot-kettle-black...

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I told you I would post when I find the info. In the meantime I suggest you take some fresh lessons from a Swiss instructor or a cantonal Vekehrs expert. I have!
You said you would post the info that backed up your ridiculous claim. But that info didn't exist. You misread.

Mate, I don't need the lessons but I think you've done us all a favour by having a refresher course yourself.
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  #47  
Old 10.06.2011, 12:45
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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If for whatever reason you couldn't get from the slip road onto the motorway in the UK you'd need to stop. You mustn't use the emergency lane (hard shoulder).
Although it could technically be an emergency - i.e. avoiding a collision?
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  #48  
Old 10.06.2011, 12:47
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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Although it could technically be an emergency - i.e. avoiding a collision?
Failing to pay sufficient attention to traffic to enable you to merge onto the motorway is not an emergency.
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Old 10.06.2011, 12:49
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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Failing to pay sufficient attention to traffic to enable you to merge onto the motorway is not an emergency.
It is if you're a shit driver ;)
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Old 10.06.2011, 12:51
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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It is if you're Ittigen
Now that's better
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  #51  
Old 10.06.2011, 12:55
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

I never expected something as straight forward as this, to turn into such a mass debate.
Just don't follow the tankers.
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  #52  
Old 10.06.2011, 12:59
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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Failing to pay sufficient attention to traffic to enable you to merge onto the motorway is not an emergency.
How did I know that was coming? (Oh, the irony is killing me)

Yes, yes, we all know that some of us here are perfect drivers and never ever ever make a mistake. But sometimes conditions change, sometimes we - yes, us, mere mortals - make mistakes, sometimes visibility is particularly bad or the slip road particularly short, or you have double-entry slip roads where someone is also joining but faster and from your blind spot, sometimes some prick decides that his penis is too small and he needs to track you to stop you from merging, etc....
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  #53  
Old 10.06.2011, 13:08
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

I am continually surprised by the questions and answers on this Forum. Clearly most people have not bothered to open a book or take a driving lesson here. Amazingly the rules here are different to many other countries, including USA, GB, D.

I have written to a Swiss lawyer (Herr Dr. iur. Martin) working for the Swiss TCS asking for a clarification. Will his reply be acceptable to the gentlemen of the jury?
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  #54  
Old 10.06.2011, 13:19
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

To back Ittingen up, I've done my drivering license here. I specifically asked my driving instructor what I should do if I'm not able to get on to the motorway in time and he said I should just use the hard shoulder.

Personally I find this logical. The danger of using the hard shoulder for a couple of metres is far less then having one, possibly more cars having to accelerate from 0 while cars are coming behind with 120 kph

First hit on google for autobahn einspuren
http://www.autodidakt.ch/Repetition_..._Autobahn.html

Manchmal ist beim Einspuren auf die Autobahn einfach keine Lücke zu finden, und irgendwann geht die Einspurstrecke zu Ende. Komplett falsch wäre Verlangsamen bis zum Anhalten. «Beschleunigen Sie am Ende der Einspurstrecke auf dem Pannenstreifen weiter, bis sich die Lücke zum Einfädeln ergibt», rät der Burgdorfer Fahrlehrer Fred Eichenberger.
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Old 10.06.2011, 13:39
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

I still don't understand how people can get it so wrong - that they either have to stop or use the hard shoulder.

As you start down the slip road you can easily see the speed and density of traffic. As you accelerate up to the speed of the traffic you should be able to use your mirrors - blind-spot checks to identify your most likely entry point - you then match your speed to ensure you enter at that point.

If people are struggling with, what is quite a simple action, they shouldn't be allowed on the road - and especially on the motorway.
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  #56  
Old 10.06.2011, 13:39
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

I just wish the ladies arranging their hair appointments on their handies would move over to the left lane so I can merge nicely from the slip road.

Constant annoyance, empty left lane yet they block you off..In their own worlds and F everyone else.

Handy usage in Switzerland while driving is at an all time high by my reckoning. I need to get me one of those mobile signal jammers.
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  #57  
Old 10.06.2011, 13:50
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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I still don't understand how people can get it so wrong - that they either have to stop or use the hard shoulder.

As you start down the slip road you can easily see the speed and density of traffic. As you accelerate up to the speed of the traffic you should be able to use your mirrors - blind-spot checks to identify your most likely entry point - you then match your speed to ensure you enter at that point. (And if the car in front of you never gets above 50 Km/Hr ?)

If people are struggling with, what is quite a simple action, they shouldn't be allowed on the road - and especially on the motorway.
Have you never driven in the "Ruhr Gebiet" near Cologne - Düsseldorf? Incredibly thick traffic conditions all day, or stopped in a jam. In 1985 in California they introduced traffic lights to stop people entering the Freeway in busy traffic.

Maybe there are two trucks approaching in the right lane, suddenly a wanker moves from the left lane in between them... no room, busy traffic cars behind you, so you continue at 60 Km on the "Standspur" until the trucks have passed you, then accelerate and move left when safe.

Only once have I had to use the hard shoulder when a wanker continually accelerated and braked and drove next to me, even though the left lane was free, eventually he let me move into the left lane.

You cannot expect everyone to drive as well as you do. Expect the unexpected!
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  #58  
Old 10.06.2011, 14:16
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

About "In 1985 in California they introduced traffic lights to stop people entering the Freeway in busy traffic. "

They have those traffic lights on some autobahn entries around Zurich
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Old 10.06.2011, 14:36
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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I still don't understand how people can get it so wrong - that they either have to stop or use the hard shoulder.

As you start down the slip road you can easily see the speed and density of traffic. As you accelerate up to the speed of the traffic you should be able to use your mirrors - blind-spot checks to identify your most likely entry point - you then match your speed to ensure you enter at that point.

If people are struggling with, what is quite a simple action, they shouldn't be allowed on the road - and especially on the motorway.
About "As you start down the slip road you can easily see the speed and density of traffic" - this is an assumption that all slip roads are well designed; some of them allow you little visibility & are too short to let you match your speed reasonably. Examples from my poor memory are
  • the last slip road from Bülach going direction Schaffhausen
  • the slip road from Zürich flughafen in direction Bülach
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Old 10.06.2011, 14:59
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Re: Merging onto a motorway

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About "As you start down the slip road you can easily see the speed and density of traffic" - this is an assumption that all slip roads are well designed; some of them allow you little visibility & are too short to let you match your speed reasonably. Examples from my poor memory are
They were designed with the average Swiss car in mind. i.e. Audio RS4 or BMW Mwhatever.
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