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  #41  
Old 14.02.2014, 00:08
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

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Help me out here, just lost my temper with ticket inspector. Bought a ticket on my iPhone before boarding train. Ticket inspector pulls me up, says ticket bought too late. Train left at 2301 he says, ticket bought at 2302.11 he says. My ticket says valid from 23.01. He writes me a fine, I refuse to sign it. I say (a) bought my ticket before boarding (b) I think train was late, although online timetable does not show this (c) my ticket is valid from timetabled departure time of 2301 anyway. He says only purchase time and timetabled departure matter, and I hate his attitude, refuse to sign fine. Who is right and what happens next?
read the sbb t&c. i suspect he could be right, however unreasonable it seems.

however, on the SBB website (FAQ), it talks about the actual departure of the train...

Bis wann kann ich mein MobileTicket kaufen?
Sie müssen Ihr MobileTicket vor Antritt der Reise (tatsächliche Abfahrt des Zuges) kaufen.

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 14.02.2014 at 00:33.
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  #42  
Old 14.02.2014, 00:11
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

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read the sbb t&c. i suspect he could be right, however unreasonable it seems.
It'd be interesting to take it to court. SBB have been told off previously for unfair fines.

Not suggesting you do, mind. There's interesting, and there's brave/daft.
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Old 14.02.2014, 09:39
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

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Help me out here, just lost my temper with ticket inspector. Bought a ticket on my iPhone before boarding train. Ticket inspector pulls me up, says ticket bought too late. Train left at 2301 he says, ticket bought at 2302.11 he says. My ticket says valid from 23.01. He writes me a fine, I refuse to sign it. I say (a) bought my ticket before boarding (b) I think train was late, although online timetable does not show this (c) my ticket is valid from timetabled departure time of 2301 anyway. He says only purchase time and timetabled departure matter, and I hate his attitude, refuse to sign fine. Who is right and what happens next?
I'd "personally" think you are right, yes the rules state that the ticket should be bought before boarding, but I don't think applying a tolerance of 1-2 minutes is a big deal for SBB. Exactly like with driving speeds, the law states you cant drive more than xx speed at a certain region, if you are caught at xx+1 kph they wouldn't fine you.

I wouldn't know what would happen next, did he get your personal details? if not, then I wouldn't care, if yes, probably you'll receive something by post.
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Old 14.02.2014, 09:44
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

were you on the platform or the train when you executed your purchase?
were you alone at the time?

I would contact SBB and dispute it stating that you were on the platform when you completed your purchase.
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Old 14.02.2014, 09:56
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

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I think train was late, although online timetable does not show this
IME the online timetable does not show delays below some threshold (I think it's 3 minutes).
Delays are no longer displayed once the train has arrived at its final destination.
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  #46  
Old 14.02.2014, 10:01
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

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He says only purchase time and timetabled departure matter, and I hate his attitude, refuse to sign fine. Who is right and what happens next?
Sorry to hear this, but I suspect you won't have a chance of fighting it. Their logic is that you could get on the train and only if you see an inspector do you press the 'confirm' button. It happened to me a couple of weeks ago, when I'd been unable to buy a single ticket for my through trip from Olten-Engelberg, so when changing at Luzern I had to buy another one. For various reasons including poor phone connectivity my final purchase was completed just after the train moved out.

I was lucky, though. The inspector had seen me doing it, and it would have been clear that I had been trying before boarding, so when he came round he basically just pointed out that I should make sure that I get it sorted earlier in the future. No fine, and not even much of a telling off, TBH.

So my question is this - had your inspector already decided to give you a fine before you had anything to say about it, or is it possible that he only made the decision after you reacted badly to him?
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  #47  
Old 14.02.2014, 10:15
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

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read the sbb t&c. i suspect he could be right, however unreasonable it seems.

however, on the SBB website (FAQ), it talks about the actual departure of the train...

Bis wann kann ich mein MobileTicket kaufen?
Sie müssen Ihr MobileTicket vor Antritt der Reise (tatsächliche Abfahrt des Zuges) kaufen.

Here from the actual t&c.

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41.02 Die Kundinnen und Kunden müssen vor Antritt der Reise (tatsächliche Abfahrt des Zuges) im Besitz des E−Tickets sein. Der Kauf−, resp. Bestellvorgang muss vor der tatsächlichen Abfahrt des Zuges vollständig abgeschlossen sein und das E−Ticket muss in ausgedruckter Form vorliegen oder auf der Applikation des Endgerätes verfügbar sein. Andernfalls hat der Reisende den Zuschlag gemäss T600.5, Ziffer 30.00 (ohne Fahrpreis) zu zahlen.
T600 Allgemeiner Personentarif

In english: You must have your electronic ticket before the train actually leaves (Not timetable time). Having a ticket means, either a paper printout or on your mobile device avaiable (Hitting the buy button is not enough, ticket must be on your device before train leaves). Otherwise you have to pay the surcharge according to T600.5 Item 30.00 (w/o )

Item 30.00 distincs between two cases. Partially valid ticked, and no valid ticket. Either the surcharge is CHF 70, CHF 110, or CH 140 for the first, second, and every other incurance, or it is CHF 90, CHF 130, or CHF 160 respectively.

I do not know if the OPs ticket would be considered as partially valid ticket or as a not valid ticket.


But in any case: If OPs ticket was on device before the train left, then no surcharge has to be paid!

PS: Here is the SBB contact regarding travelling w/o a fully valid ticket.
http://www.sbb.ch/en/station-service...meldungen.html
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Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 14.02.2014 at 13:13. Reason: Fixed link to T600.5,
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  #48  
Old 14.02.2014, 10:41
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

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Help me out here, just lost my temper with ticket inspector. Bought a ticket on my iPhone before boarding train. Ticket inspector pulls me up, says ticket bought too late. Train left at 2301 he says, ticket bought at 2302.11 he says. My ticket says valid from 23.01. He writes me a fine, I refuse to sign it. I say (a) bought my ticket before boarding (b) I think train was late, although online timetable does not show this (c) my ticket is valid from timetabled departure time of 2301 anyway. He says only purchase time and timetabled departure matter, and I hate his attitude, refuse to sign fine. Who is right and what happens next?
This is a clear case of an over zealous ticket inspector. Simply complain to the SBB and ask them to waive the fine. You simply argue that you gain no advantage in buying the ticket 1 minute later than the departure time. I assume you were inspected a few minutes after 2302.11 so had you been trying to dodge the fare then the time on the ticket would have been more than 2302.11 so it's a moot point trying to argue whether you bought before or after the scheduled departure time.
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  #49  
Old 14.02.2014, 11:11
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

Ironically one of the worst places to attempt to buy an electronic rail ticket is at the Zürich HB. It's got better over the last year or so, but the cellular data network there is easily swamped at peak times. I often have to wait until the train I'm on leaves the station before I can reliably get cellular data.
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Old 14.02.2014, 12:54
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

Thanks for the input. Just to be clear, I had bought the ticket before seeing any inspectors, and lost my rag once it was clear we were well down the fine route (after about 10 minutes of discussion and fellow passengers weighing in on my side). I gave my details to him (I assume there must be a law on this) but refused to sign the fine or take the paper, he looked quite crestfallen at that point. My ticket and the receipt show ticket valid from 2301, the timetabled departure time of the train It's only the sold time which is 11 seconds later. I'm going to fight this, not sure what happens next as I did not take the paperwork from him - I assume something in the post whether that be a fine or summons?
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  #51  
Old 17.02.2014, 14:21
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

They caved in on this! Why the ticket inspector did not admit he was wrong at the time I don't know:


Besten Dank für Ihre Mitteilung vom vergangenen Freitagnachmittag. Sie waren einen Tag zuvor mit dem RE 3790 von Bülach nach Schaffhausen unterwegs. Während der Billettkontrolle kam es zu einer Begegnungen mit unserem Zugpersonal, die Sie sehr verärgerte. Dies bedauern wir.
Es ist uns wichtig, von solchen Situationen zu hören. Auf die Kundenorientierung unseres Personals legen wir grossen Wert. Wir erwarten, dass sich unsere Angestellten in jeder Situation professionell und korrekt verhalten. Ihre Schilderungen haben wir deshalb auch intern der verantwortlichen Stelle weitergeleitet. Sie dürfen darauf vertrauen, dass wir eine solche Meldung mit dem involvierten Mitarbeiter nochmals anschauen.

Wie unsere Abklärungen ergaben, wurde Ihnen keine Busse ausgestellt. Grund dafür war, dass der oben erwähnte Zug mit einigen Minuten Verzögerung in Bülach abgefahren ist. Sie haben das Billett zwar nach der fahrplanmässigen Abfahrtszeit, jedoch vor der effektiven Abfahrt gelöst. Daher verzichteten unsere Mitarbeitenden korrekterweise auf die Erhebung eines Zuschlags.

Wir hoffen, Ihr Verständnis für unsere Ausführungen zu finden und danken Ihnen, dass Sie uns Ihren Ärger mitgeteilt haben. Besonders freuen wir uns, Sie schon bald wieder in unseren Zügen begrüssen zu dürfen. Für die Zukunft wünschen wir Ihnen möglichst nur noch positive Erlebnisse mit unserem Zugpersonal.
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  #52  
Old 17.02.2014, 14:50
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

Not all the SBB controllers are evil. I was with someone a few weeks back - jumped on a train as he was competing his ticket - sure enough - inspector arrived.

Not impressed that the ticket was just being purchased. We gave him the story of the day and that I had just bought my ticket from the machine (I had) and that the other guy hadn't got the chance before the direct train departed.

He stood there, waited for the ticket sale to complete and was happy once he had completed his lecture!!
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  #53  
Old 17.02.2014, 15:24
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

I related the tale on a previous thread, of how I got to the train platform at Geneva airport just as the inspector was about to waive the train off that I hoped to get on.
He took the whistle out of his mouth and said I could get on the train.
Then, when he came round to inspect the tickets, he threatened to fine me if next time I didn't 'compost' my return ticket at the machine on the platform before boarding the train
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Old 17.02.2014, 15:25
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

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They caved in on this! Why the ticket inspector did not admit he was wrong at the time I don't know:

[...]
Daher verzichteten unsere Mitarbeitenden korrekterweise auf die Erhebung eines Zuschlags.
Wow what a bunch of lawyers, politicans, and used car salesmen.

In English: [Bla bal, things happend, things have be done] Hence, our employees [The ones from the complaint center, not the train inspector, note the plural form] correctly refrained from demanding a surgarche.
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Old 17.02.2014, 16:09
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

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They caved in on this! Why the ticket inspector did not admit he was wrong at the time I don't know:


Besten Dank für Ihre Mitteilung vom vergangenen Freitagnachmittag. Sie waren einen Tag zuvor mit dem RE 3790 von Bülach nach Schaffhausen unterwegs. Während der Billettkontrolle kam es zu einer Begegnungen mit unserem Zugpersonal, die Sie sehr verärgerte. Dies bedauern wir.
Es ist uns wichtig, von solchen Situationen zu hören. Auf die Kundenorientierung unseres Personals legen wir grossen Wert. Wir erwarten, dass sich unsere Angestellten in jeder Situation professionell und korrekt verhalten. Ihre Schilderungen haben wir deshalb auch intern der verantwortlichen Stelle weitergeleitet. Sie dürfen darauf vertrauen, dass wir eine solche Meldung mit dem involvierten Mitarbeiter nochmals anschauen.

Wie unsere Abklärungen ergaben, wurde Ihnen keine Busse ausgestellt. Grund dafür war, dass der oben erwähnte Zug mit einigen Minuten Verzögerung in Bülach abgefahren ist. Sie haben das Billett zwar nach der fahrplanmässigen Abfahrtszeit, jedoch vor der effektiven Abfahrt gelöst. Daher verzichteten unsere Mitarbeitenden korrekterweise auf die Erhebung eines Zuschlags.

Wir hoffen, Ihr Verständnis für unsere Ausführungen zu finden und danken Ihnen, dass Sie uns Ihren Ärger mitgeteilt haben. Besonders freuen wir uns, Sie schon bald wieder in unseren Zügen begrüssen zu dürfen. Für die Zukunft wünschen wir Ihnen möglichst nur noch positive Erlebnisse mit unserem Zugpersonal.
Just popped this into Google translate. Really liked the last paragraph translation;

We hope to see your understanding of our designs and thank you that you have given us your anger. We are particularly pleased to see you soon again welcome on our trains . For the future we wish you possible only positive experiences with our train crew .

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  #56  
Old 17.02.2014, 17:21
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

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They caved in on this! Why the ticket inspector did not admit he was wrong at the time I don't know:


Besten Dank für Ihre Mitteilung vom vergangenen Freitagnachmittag. Sie waren einen Tag zuvor mit dem RE 3790 von Bülach nach Schaffhausen unterwegs. Während der Billettkontrolle kam es zu einer Begegnungen mit unserem Zugpersonal, die Sie sehr verärgerte. Dies bedauern wir.
Es ist uns wichtig, von solchen Situationen zu hören. Auf die Kundenorientierung unseres Personals legen wir grossen Wert. Wir erwarten, dass sich unsere Angestellten in jeder Situation professionell und korrekt verhalten. Ihre Schilderungen haben wir deshalb auch intern der verantwortlichen Stelle weitergeleitet. Sie dürfen darauf vertrauen, dass wir eine solche Meldung mit dem involvierten Mitarbeiter nochmals anschauen.

Wie unsere Abklärungen ergaben, wurde Ihnen keine Busse ausgestellt. Grund dafür war, dass der oben erwähnte Zug mit einigen Minuten Verzögerung in Bülach abgefahren ist. Sie haben das Billett zwar nach der fahrplanmässigen Abfahrtszeit, jedoch vor der effektiven Abfahrt gelöst. Daher verzichteten unsere Mitarbeitenden korrekterweise auf die Erhebung eines Zuschlags.

Wir hoffen, Ihr Verständnis für unsere Ausführungen zu finden und danken Ihnen, dass Sie uns Ihren Ärger mitgeteilt haben. Besonders freuen wir uns, Sie schon bald wieder in unseren Zügen begrüssen zu dürfen. Für die Zukunft wünschen wir Ihnen möglichst nur noch positive Erlebnisse mit unserem Zugpersonal.
congrats on seeing this through. when i saw the FAQ and T&Cs, it was clear to me that not only were you morally in the right, but also contractually.

i see that their response is another clear example of the germanic inability to apologise
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Old 17.02.2014, 18:30
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Re: SBB - Have to buy tickets before boarding

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Wow what a bunch of lawyers, politicans, and used car salesmen.
If they were lawyers they would have consistently used "Zuschlag" throughout; they cannot issue fines.
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