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Old 12.07.2011, 03:07
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Swiss registered bike in France

Hi,

I am a Brit living in France....I also have a motorcycle that was originally registered in Switzerland.....

It is still Swiss registered as it was never re-registered here in France.

A guy I did some gardening work for gave me the bike as a gift as it wasn't running and it was still Swiss registered.

The bike is not registered in his name....he is a fellow Brit who works in Switzerland...he apparently bought the bike from the original registered owner some years ago, but never sorted the paper work out.

I have the original registration papers/Permis De Circulation which have the original owners name and address.

I have since sent a letter to the address stated in the papers requesting that the original owner sign the bike over to me....however I never received a reply.

Would someone please supply me with the address and Tel.' number of the Swiss vehicle registration agency so that I can at least get the papers authenticated.....and through them perhaps trace the original owner of the bike....

Some advice would be helpful as well....

Thanks.
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Old 12.07.2011, 03:33
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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Hi,

I am a Brit living in France....I also have a motorcycle that was originally registered in Switzerland.....

It is still Swiss registered as it was never re-registered here in France.

A guy I did some gardening work for gave me the bike as a gift as it wasn't running and it was still Swiss registered.

The bike is not registered in his name....he is a fellow Brit who works in Switzerland...he apparently bought the bike from the original registered owner some years ago, but never sorted the paper work out.

I have the original registration papers/Permis De Circulation which have the original owners name and address.

I have since sent a letter to the address stated in the papers requesting that the original owner sign the bike over to me....however I never received a reply.

Would someone please supply me with the address and Tel.' number of the Swiss vehicle registration agency or maybe even the website address so that I can at least get the papers authenticated.....and through them perhaps trace the original owner of the bike....

Some advice would be helpful as well....

Thanks.
Couldn't find the edit post button if there is one....as I wanted to add that the Swiss vehicle registration agency website would be good to know....

Thanks again.
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Old 12.07.2011, 04:57
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

Each canton has its own Service cantonal des automobiles.
Where was the bike last registered?
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Old 12.07.2011, 10:57
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

It was last registered in Bern.

Infact having checked the paper work out after reading your reply I have since discovered what I assume is an address for the Bern canton office...

Schermenweg 5 3001 Bern. Does that look like an address to you?
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Old 12.07.2011, 11:16
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

He "apparently" bought the bike from the registered owner? The Swiss Fahrzeugauswei s (the one with the Rahmennummer = chassis number) should be in the owner's name. Different name + no written contract = problems!
He didn't "sort out the paperwork" - i.e. the bike carries Swiss rego but is uninsured? That's not especially legal, is it?
The bike is in France, and has been for some time, but has not been declared to French customs - customs problems await.

That does sound rather fishy. How well do you know the person who gave the bike to you, and are you absolutely positive that you aren't handling stolen goods right now? BTW if you accepted the bike in lieu of payment for gardening work, that's some travail au noir thrown in as well.
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Old 12.07.2011, 11:21
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

Indeed, a can of worms could be awaiting you on this one. Sounds like the guy who gave you this palmed you off with something that may be more trouble than it's worth. Tom's point on the value for service's rendered and the impot is also valid, how would they assume the value? almost certainly not scrap or non-running value. So selling it in CH could be a challenge without documentation proving ownership, ditto in France, and you'll have the hassle with the prefecture and import taxes/vat as it's coming from non-eu.

I reckon giving you the bike saved him the cost of disposing of it... just sayin'
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Old 12.07.2011, 12:20
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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He "apparently" bought the bike from the registered owner? The Swiss Fahrzeugauswei s (the one with the Rahmennummer = chassis number) should be in the owner's name. Different name + no written contract = problems!
The Swiss Permis de Circulation that came with the bike details the chassis number along with the original owners name.

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He didn't "sort out the paperwork" - i.e. the bike carries Swiss rego but is uninsured? That's not especially legal, is it?
The bike is in France, and has been for some time, but has not been declared to French customs - customs problems await.
One problem at a time....the bikes not on the road as its a non runner at the moment....so the insurance is not a problem. If the battery is not connected and there is no fuel in the tank, there is no need for insurance.

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That does sound rather fishy. How well do you know the person who gave the bike to you, and are you absolutely positive that you aren't handling stolen goods right now? BTW if you accepted the bike in lieu of payment for gardening work, that's some travail au noir thrown in as well.
I know the guy who gave me the bike pretty well, he gave me 2 UK registered cars as well as the bike; the cars were registered in his name.....hes rather eccentric....he is also one of those people who thinks rules are for other people....I am absolutely positive I am not handling stolen goods.

And no I didn't accept the bike in lieu of payment for the gardening work. He paid me well for the work.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 12.07.2011, 12:28
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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Indeed, a can of worms could be awaiting you on this one. Sounds like the guy who gave you this palmed you off with something that may be more trouble than it's worth.

I reckon giving you the bike saved him the cost of disposing of it... just sayin'
Papa Goose you may have a point there....I'm sure he couldn't be bothered with the bike or the cars....the bike is a non runner anyway...or at least it was when he gave it to me....it still is a non runner....
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Old 12.07.2011, 12:29
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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One problem at a time....the bikes not on the road as its a non runner at the moment....so the insurance is not a problem. If the battery is not connected and there is no fuel in the tank, there is no need for insurance.
French insurance is basically three tier, with the minimum legal requirement being third party insurance (au tiers) only. Remember this is essential on all vehicles even if off road.... oops as to comply I think you would have to prove ownership
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Old 12.07.2011, 12:31
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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selling it in CH could be a challenge without documentation proving ownership
No, it's not:

"I have the original registration papers/Permis De Circulation"

That's all you need, nothing more, that alone is proof of ownership in CH.

Nothing needs to be signed.

However, if you still have the Swiss license plate, there may be some back taxes/insurance to pay!

Tom
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Old 12.07.2011, 12:45
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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No, it's not:

"I have the original registration papers/Permis De Circulation"

That's all you need, nothing more, that alone is proof of ownership in CH.

Nothing needs to be signed.

However, if you still have the Swiss license plate, there may be some back taxes/insurance to pay!

Tom
The OP is not Swiss resident, does not have insurance, no bill of sale, and the person he got the bike from is not the person who registered as the owner in CH... and your saying that will be fine. I said I think that could be a challenge, but am happy to be proved wrong.

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Papa Goose you may have a point there....I'm sure he couldn't be bothered with the bike or the cars....the bike is a non runner anyway...or at least it was when he gave it to me....it still is a non runner....
I'm not implying anything untoward in any way, just that the Swissies do like all the ducks to be in a row. I had all my paperwork when I did the reg' for my car inc' all the paperwork from purchase, French doc's, carte gris, Zoll paperwork from Geneva, CH homo' stuff done by a dealer in Zug, Swiss insurance and it passed the MFK. However the beady eyed clerk noticed and 2 digits were transposed on the Zoll paperwork, so the motor office wouldn't give me the Swiss plates until I took it back to be corrected, luckily the office in ZH did it so it only took a few hours.

When I lived in France, I had a car which was taken off road and was stored in a garage but still had to have it insured but only 3rd tier so it was less than 100€ iirc. It was on block, so couldn't go anywhere but they didn't care... rules eh.

Good luck.....
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Old 12.07.2011, 12:49
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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One problem at a time....the bikes not on the road as its a non runner at the moment....so the insurance is not a problem. If the battery is not connected and there is no fuel in the tank, there is no need for insurance.
If it's got a rego, you have to have insurance (Article L211-1 du code des assurances). Whether the battery is connected or whether there is fuel in the tank, or whether you actually drive it on public roads, is of no importance. You have to deregister the bike to escape that. To deregister, you'll have to have the correct paperwork, and it doesn't sound like you do. To deregister in France (or to bring the chassis back to France after successfully deregistering in Switzerland), you'll also have to comply with the import rules.

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he is also one of those people who thinks rules are for other people....
If they are for other people, well, that includes you. It's really not that easy.
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Old 12.07.2011, 12:51
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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and the person he got the bike from was not the person who gave him the bike...
Papa I think you should perhaps rephrase that particular sentence...lol
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Old 12.07.2011, 12:53
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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The OP is not Swiss resident, does not have insurance, no bill of sale, and the person he got the bike from was not the person who gave hime the bike... and your saying that will be fine. I said I think that could be a challenge, but am happy to be proved wrong.
In Switzerland, to register a vehicle that you have bought or been given, you only need the old (gray) registration card. No bill of sale, etc.

Done that with a couple cars, and half a dozen motorcycles, in several cantons.

For example, my daughter bought a car a couple months ago, my girlfriend went to register it for her with only the old gray card, no problem despite not being the person on the old registration or the new!

Tom
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Old 12.07.2011, 12:56
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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To deregister, you'll have to have the correct paperwork, and it doesn't sound like you do.
Well, if he doesn't have the plate, and they gray card is stamped to indicate that it's no longer valid, he does.

So, is they gray card stamped to indicate that it's been de-registered?

Tom
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Old 12.07.2011, 12:59
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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Papa I think you should perhaps rephrase that particular sentence...lol
Ooops... well spotted that man, now fixed
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Old 12.07.2011, 13:04
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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If it's got a rego, you have to have insurance (Article L211-1 du code des assurances). Whether the battery is connected or whether there is fuel in the tank, or whether you actually drive it on public roads, is of no importance. You have to deregister the bike to escape that. To deregister, you'll have to have the correct paperwork, and it doesn't sound like you do. To deregister in France (or to bring the chassis back to France after successfully deregistering in Switzerland), you'll also have to comply with the import rules.
Well I know I don't have the correct paper work thats why I'm asking the questions....and thus far no address, telephone number or website address has been posted so that I can sort the paper work out.....

Anyways I googled the "Service cantonal des automobiles Berne" this morning and came up with this site http://www.pom.be.ch/pom/fr/index/st...loesungen.html

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If they are for other people, well, that includes you. It's really not that easy.
Nice! If I was the kind of person who doesn't follow the rules, do you rely think I would be posting questions on this forum....I'm not Swiss...I don't work in Switzerland....
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Old 12.07.2011, 13:06
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

Do you have the plate, is the registration stamped to invalidate it?

Tom
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Old 12.07.2011, 13:09
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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In Switzerland, to register a vehicle that you have bought or been given, you only need the old (gray) registration card. No bill of sale, etc.

Done that with a couple cars, and half a dozen motorcycles, in several cantons.

For example, my daughter bought a car a couple months ago, my girlfriend went to register it for her with only the old gray card, no problem despite not being the person on the old registration or the new!

Tom
Buying privately
Buyers should check the dates of the last anti-pollution test, the vehicle's service record and that the seller's identity is the same as on the vehicle's registration papers (permis de circulation). The buyer and seller should (but are not obliged) to sign a contract.
Documents required for registration
Which it isn't


To register a vehicle (either new or used) the new owner must send by post (or present in person) the following to the local Road Traffic Office:
Valid driving licence
Proof of insurance
Residency permit

The former owner's vehicle registration papers (permis de circulation) for a used car or the Rapport d'expertise 13.20A if the vehicle is new or imported
The technical control certificate (if applicable). If the car is over four years old then the seller should provide this

The OP has neither

Like i said a challenge
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Old 12.07.2011, 13:11
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Re: Swiss registered bike in France

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In Switzerland, to register a vehicle that you have bought or been given, you only need the old (gray) registration card. No bill of sale, etc.

Done that with a couple cars, and half a dozen motorcycles, in several cantons.

For example, my daughter bought a car a couple months ago, my girlfriend went to register it for her with only the old gray card, no problem despite not being the person on the old registration or the new!

Tom
Does that work if you are not a Swiss resident???
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