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  #61  
Old 05.11.2011, 00:45
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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Seriously?? You want to rip historic cities apart because a few people don't look where they are going??

Bizarrely - I have never had a problem with the "complicated" traffic signal/rules over here. I'm not sure what that means.
It's called evolution. I doubt that Basel had streetcars from the get go...and I can imagine, how some dude like you..let's call him dodgyueli, protested against the implementation of streetcars back in the days....but luckily, some progressive people had a saying in it. I feel that the very same progressive thinking is much needed in Switerland nowadays.
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  #62  
Old 05.11.2011, 12:19
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

After having read this thread, I realized that I have yet to see something as simple as a Stop sign used anywhere in Zurich.
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  #63  
Old 05.11.2011, 18:36
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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There is another measure called vehivle/miles traveled. Here it shows, that the UK isn't not really that bad of a place (http://www.driveandstayalive.com/inf...apita-2004.htm) however, these results can also be misinterpreted. Namely because and I quote from the website this means that it may take the US a day to reach 100VMT..but it will take Switzerland a year do travel the same amount...and therefore, you'd have by far more "chances" to get killed in the US vs Switzerland..this makes the US roads safer than the Swiss ones...namely because of the VMTD rates which are quite similar.
Switzerland has a less fatalities per distance travelled and that makes it less safe than the US

And then we should tear down our cities and copy US lifestyle and "enjoy" the 160% increase in road fatalities that comes with it? Don't think so.
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  #64  
Old 05.11.2011, 19:43
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

Let's face it people, there are those of us who can drive and those of us who cannot.

If you can, you'll be able to deal with the strange rules, the ridiculous mentality of the Swiss traffic designers, and the idiots on the road (normally with AG plates) who haven't the faintest clue.

If you cannot drive, as the saying goes: for those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don't, no explanation is possible.
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  #65  
Old 06.11.2011, 10:48
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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After having read this thread, I realized that I have yet to see something as simple as a Stop sign used anywhere in Zurich.
Yeah, I didn't see a stop sign either once, my driving instructor nearly ripped my head off. I'm still learning, though, that was a few months ago, I've got better a seeing all the signs but still miss some because I'm still not the perfect multi-tasker. What's your excuse?
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  #66  
Old 07.11.2011, 09:12
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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Switzerland has a less fatalities per distance travelled and that makes it less safe than the US

And then we should tear down our cities and copy US lifestyle and "enjoy" the 160% increase in road fatalities that comes with it? Don't think so.
If you'd have read what I wrote, then you would have understood, that the statistics doesn't include a detrimental factor. Switzerland may reach a million (or whatever it was) VMD in a year. The US may reach it in a day...and therefore, it ain't really apple with apple, as the frequency of VMD is far greater in the US than in Switzerland.
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  #67  
Old 07.11.2011, 09:31
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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Certainly topology has a little to do with it...but this wasn't an issue for inctance in South Korea, when they built the highspeed train lines through mountains etc.
Ah yes of course, because high-speed trains have the same turn radii and incline tolerance as cars and trucks.

I hear Cat has diggers on sale this week if you wish to further your point.
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  #68  
Old 07.11.2011, 09:37
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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Ah yes of course, because high-speed trains have the same turn radii and incline tolerance as cars and trucks.

I hear Cat has diggers on sale this week if you wish to further your point.
Well, South Korea certainly didn't have a problem with cutting through hard terrain and mountains to create a highspeed train line...but yeah, it's Switzerland we're talking about here and not some developed nation.
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  #69  
Old 07.11.2011, 10:47
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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Well, South Korea certainly didn't have a problem with cutting through hard terrain and mountains to create a highspeed train line...but yeah, it's Switzerland we're talking about here and not some developed nation.
Yes, Switzerland definitely has problems as far as rail tunnels are concerned.

Most certainly they'd appreciate your vast insight in civil works planning, starting with the basics like the relevance of how one builds a HST line versus how one builds a motorway.
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  #70  
Old 07.11.2011, 11:03
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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Yes, Switzerland definitely has problems as far as rail tunnels are concerned.
Neither does South Korea...http://www.ita-aites.org/fileadmin/f...nd/V-2-Lee.pdf

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Most certainly they'd appreciate your vast insight in civil works planning, starting with the basics like the relevance of how one builds a HST line versus how one builds a motorway.
Well, maybe they could start with doing straight lanes that don't twirl around every possible tree and pebble...and make em wide enough, so that people won't have to play "merge or die" on a daily basis....how's that for a start?

Last edited by lost_inbroad; 07.11.2011 at 12:16.
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  #71  
Old 07.11.2011, 12:46
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

And the relevance to Swiss motorways is?

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Well, maybe they could start with doing straight lanes that don't twirl around every possible tree and pebble...and make em wide enough, so that people won't have to play "merge or die" on a daily basis....how's that for a start?
That is an option. The cheaper option would be that (God forbid) people learn how to drive.

Of course, you're free to devote 60% of your income to higher taxes so that we can have 100% straight motorways if a few turns are such a conundrum for you.
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  #72  
Old 07.11.2011, 12:50
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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And the relevance to Swiss motorways is?
..well, that Korea has ah never mind...it ain't even worth it.

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That is an option. The cheaper option would be that (God forbid) people learn how to drive.
Yeah, well...ever been to a grocery store...maybe they ought to learn how to walk first.

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Of course, you're free to devote 60% of your income to higher taxes so that we can have 100% straight motorways if a few turns are such a conundrum for you.
That is not an issue for me at all...I could probably manage a highway driving backwards for that matter....it's just not very efficient to do merry go round around the friggin Matterhorn everytime you want to get to Ikea....
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  #73  
Old 07.11.2011, 12:55
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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..well, that Korea has ah never mind...it ain't even worth it.
No please, do entertain me. HST's have grade and curve radius requirements that cars and trucks do not - yet you brought Korean HST works as an example of how one should build motorways in a similar type geological environment. I fail to realise the relevance of it, but certainly there is some hidden gem of breakthrough civil engineering thought I am missing there. I mean airport runways are all flat and straight too - shurely that is a good argument of why we ought to build the motorways just like that as well?

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They're not an issue for me at all...I could probably manage a highway backwards for that matter....it's just not very efficient to do merry go round around the friggin Matterhorn everytime you want to get to Ikea....
Yes, I'm sure it's way cheaper thus more efficient to dig a motorway through the Matterhorn, right? I mean I'm sure nobody *ever* thought of comparing the costs of digging a tunnel versus building a horseshoe curve, it ain't like they teach you stuff like that in Civil Engineering... right?
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  #74  
Old 07.11.2011, 13:17
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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That is not an issue for me at all...I could probably manage a highway driving backwards for that matter...
Maybe. But you might stuggle with the fine.
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  #75  
Old 07.11.2011, 13:17
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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After having read this thread, I realized that I have yet to see something as simple as a Stop sign used anywhere in Zurich.
we have them scattered about Basel. I haven't seen many either though.

what I have noticed though is that the intersections where there should be traffic signals don't have them... traffic just sorts itself out. If that approach was used in the US there'd be fatalities every day.

but then... US drivers can't even figure out a roundabout.
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  #76  
Old 07.11.2011, 13:23
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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Yes, I'm sure it's way cheaper thus more efficient to dig a motorway through the Matterhorn, right? I mean I'm sure nobody *ever* thought of comparing the costs of digging a tunnel versus building a horseshoe curve, it ain't like they teach you stuff like that in Civil Engineering... right?
Maybe in Romania or Switzerland....but in many civilized areas around the world, a little molehill of a mountain is hardly an obstacle.
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  #77  
Old 07.11.2011, 14:13
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Re: Tram 11 crash this morning

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Just to make it more exciting - here in Basel on Thursday next week they are doing a disaster-simulation exercise where they will derail a tram (as in "on purpose"!!) and lay it on it's side so that they can practice what to do.

Erm... hang on a sec.... but didn't almost exactly that happen this week already? For real? Oh no, it was late at night, and only a few people were injured, here we have to practice for major casualties and road chaos.... and we have to have this practice as it's been planned for over a year! Right. Of course.

So yes, anyone going near the ISB in Aesch on Thursday 10th November, expect to see a planned tram accident and LONG traffic delays because they are going to do the exercise right there at that junction from 10am going on pretty much all day.

http://www.aesch.bl.ch/de/alle/aktue...info_id=156924
Thanks for posting this. I have copied it to a few places to let friends know.

Do you know anymore about it? Do they need mock victims?
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