Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11.12.2011, 17:18
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
MTBTim has no particular reputation at present
Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

I'm thinking about buying a car here in Switzerland for commuting and going places at the weekend. I need something practical as I'll be using it to go mountain biking in the summer and snowboarding/skiing in the winter. I would also like something with a bit of poke and fun to drive.

I would appreciate people's opinions on what choices there are and also advise on what brands are best for switzerland (servicing costs etc.) whether I need 4 wheeled drive and the cost of tires. My budget is around 15k chf. Here is my list so far:

Ford Mondeo Estate '08 or newer. Only seem to be 2 or 2.2 litre TDCI available.
Ford Smax. Ideal as all the seats fold flat, ideal for filling with bikes. Worried about the astronomical cost of tires and the fact there is no spare tire.
Audi A4 Estate '05 or newer. Option of a quattro for snow driving, worth it? Expensive to service?
Subaru Forester. 4x4, reliable and practical, just looks horrible.

Any other options? Are Audi's more expensive to run than Ford, as in the UK?

Cheers,

Tim
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11.12.2011, 17:26
Jekyll's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 885
Groaned at 35 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 1,180 Times in 475 Posts
Jekyll has a reputation beyond reputeJekyll has a reputation beyond reputeJekyll has a reputation beyond reputeJekyll has a reputation beyond reputeJekyll has a reputation beyond reputeJekyll has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

If you've got a 15k budget then make sure you save at least CHF500 for a Thule towbar mounted bike rack. For cleanliness and convenience, they can't be beaten.

Cheers
Jekyll
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11.12.2011, 17:42
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
MTBTim has no particular reputation at present
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Hi Jekyll,

Thanks for the reply. I actually have one of those in the UK but it can be a pain to use. I'd prefer a car that is big enough to throw all the bikes in the back, hence the smax suggestion. I'd buy a cheap tarp to help protect the inside of the car.

Cheers,

Tim
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11.12.2011, 18:06
Wallabies's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 3,219
Groaned at 311 Times in 176 Posts
Thanked 3,314 Times in 1,577 Posts
Wallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

A budget of 15K doesn't give a lot of options however the following website may help.

http://www.car4you.ch/

Here an estate is called a "Kombi"

If you are concerned about budget and cost of running then a VW is probably more affordable to run and service then an Audi. In many cases you will virtually have an audi engine under a cheaper skin. They are also easy to service no matter where you go, just take a look around they are probably the most popular car here.

4WD is certainly an advantage in that you will find the need for chains much less.

If you want to keep servicing costs under control use the following place

http://www.auto-technik-unger.ch/pag...z=CH&gebiet=CH

Cost of tyres: Get the best you can afford its not worth the risk however be aware you can get insurance on tyres here for about 5CHF extra per tyre and covers you for 2 years against wearout, punctures nails rocks etc. You should be able to get 205 size tyres around 140-170CHF a tyre

Upping your budget by 5K will give you a younger car and more Kms left in it and most likely reduce the servicing required.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11.12.2011, 18:32
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Quote:
View Post

Upping your budget by 5K will give you a younger car and more Kms left in it and most likely reduce the servicing required.
My 1995 BMW 328 has 302,000km on it, it's nothing like worn out & needs very little serviceing. Spending over 5k on a car is a lifestyle choice & not a necessity.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 11.12.2011, 18:48
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
MTBTim has no particular reputation at present
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Thanks for the replies. I have only been searching Comparis.ch for cars thinking that it obtained its results from all the major websites, is this correct? Is cars4you an additional site I should check?

I am aware also that I will get something newer with less miles on it for more but you could go on forever so I have to stop my budget somewhere! Considering I will be throwing muddy bikes in it, I don't want something too fancy even though this will still be the most I would have spent on a car. And when you say its not worth the risk buying cheap tyres, what do you mean? Cheap tyres are bad in snow? Never spent a lot on tyres in the UK (40-50 a tyre for my focus) as I wasn't bothered by the extra performance and limited extra mileage you get out of a expensive tyre is faaaar out weighed by the excessive cost. Is 140-170chf per tyre for a performance tyre or a bog standard one?

Sounds like 4x4 could be useful but do the benefits outweigh the lower economy and possible extra cost of maintenance? I live in Fribourg, not in the mountains but I would drive most weekend to various resorts.

Cheers,

Tim
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11.12.2011, 19:35
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for the replies. I have only been searching Comparis.ch for cars thinking that it obtained its results from all the major websites, is this correct? Is cars4you an additional site I should check?

I am aware also that I will get something newer with less miles on it for more but you could go on forever so I have to stop my budget somewhere! Considering I will be throwing muddy bikes in it, I don't want something too fancy even though this will still be the most I would have spent on a car. And when you say its not worth the risk buying cheap tyres, what do you mean? Cheap tyres are bad in snow? Never spent a lot on tyres in the UK (40-50 a tyre for my focus) as I wasn't bothered by the extra performance and limited extra mileage you get out of a expensive tyre is faaaar out weighed by the excessive cost. Is 140-170chf per tyre for a performance tyre or a bog standard one?

Sounds like 4x4 could be useful but do the benefits outweigh the lower economy and possible extra cost of maintenance? I live in Fribourg, not in the mountains but I would drive most weekend to various resorts.

Cheers,

Tim
I drive in the mountains with a RWD BMW with LSD, the no of FWD Audi A4's that get stuck would amaze you. Heavy FWD cars just get stuck, I laughed when I saw a Quashqoi stuck on Friday, looks like a 4x4 but most of them are not!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11.12.2011, 19:40
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
MTBTim has no particular reputation at present
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Quote:
View Post
I drive in the mountains with a RWD BMW with LSD, the no of FWD Audi A4's that get stuck would amaze you. Heavy FWD cars just get stuck, I laughed when I saw a Quashqoi stuck on Friday, looks like a 4x4 but most of them are not!
I always thought FWD was better for snow? I've drived past RWD BMW's in my focus while they just fish tailed around the road not moving! I was also in an accident in Canada when a pickup I was a passenger in rolled down a bank as result of only being in RWD at the time
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11.12.2011, 19:45
TiMow's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 9,295
Groaned at 237 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 12,188 Times in 5,300 Posts
TiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Go here and enter your criteria and see what pops up.

German: http://www.autoscout24.ch/Search/Sea...ed.aspx?lng=de

French: http://www.autoscout24.ch/Search/Sea...ed.aspx?lng=fr
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11.12.2011, 19:53
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Audi's have great AWD, but horrendous reliability. Avoid them like the plague. The Forester is your best bet.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11.12.2011, 20:39
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
MTBTim has no particular reputation at present
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Quote:
View Post
Audi's have great AWD, but horrendous reliability. Avoid them like the plague. The Forester is your best bet.
Interesting. Noted, thanks. I've heard Subaru's go on forever but they look like an ugly brick. I think the Skoda Octavia comes in a AWD version, maybe worth a look.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11.12.2011, 21:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,954
Groaned at 79 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 4,222 Times in 2,274 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Quote:
View Post
My 1995 BMW 328 has 302,000km on it, it's nothing like worn out & needs very little serviceing. Spending over 5k on a car is a lifestyle choice & not a necessity.

The problem is, if the average guy (like me and the rest of the people who have to come here to ask because car's aren't their hobby) buys such a car, changes are good that he buys a dud.

If he was able to identify all the hidden pitfalls when buying a 2nd or 3rd-hand car, he probably wouldn't ask here.

Most cars of that age and price point go straight into export, because few dealers want to bear the risk. So, what you can buy here is really "the rest", that for some reason didn't go to Tunisia or Senegal.

My advice would be to look for either Volkswagen or Skoda. And something from a dealer, with some sort of warranty.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 11.12.2011, 21:59
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,511
Groaned at 384 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 2,082 Times in 866 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

These people seem to have a lot of nice cheap 4x4s

http://www.les4x4repond.ch/

They are Bulle, FR I plan to visit them next week. Some vehicles have warranty (by them I guess). I think it will be wiser to go for a smaller independent (and hopefully honest) garage than to a dealer where it will be much more expensive.

Check this one out:

http://www.anibis.ch/fr/Voitures%20d...1&ps=60&scid=0
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11.12.2011, 22:40
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Quote:
View Post

My advice would be to look for either Volkswagen or Skoda. And something from a dealer, with some sort of warranty.
I would avoid most cars including Ford, Audi or Skoda as they have cam belts, the BMW has a chain & never needs to be replaced. I drive 40,000 km plus a year so need reliability & low cost of repairs above all else.

Most warranties are fairly useless 'insurance' products, if the engine is destroyed because the cam belt snapped the insurance will not pay out as they will say the belt was not replaced at the right time.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11.12.2011, 22:44
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Quote:
View Post
I always thought FWD was better for snow? I've drived past RWD BMW's in my focus while they just fish tailed around the road not moving! I was also in an accident in Canada when a pickup I was a passenger in rolled down a bank as result of only being in RWD at the time
A very light car with thin tyres FWD will be good, put low profile tyres on & they will spin if the car is heavy.

If your car got stuck in snow would you try to pull it out of push it? RWD with a LSD works very well, IMHO better than a Peogeot 306 or Citroen BX both got stuck with chaines on.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11.12.2011, 22:58
ElggDK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ottawa - Canada
Posts: 942
Groaned at 29 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,268 Times in 565 Posts
ElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
I would avoid most cars including Ford, Audi or Skoda as they have cam belts, the BMW has a chain & never needs to be replaced. I drive 40,000 km plus a year so need reliability & low cost of repairs above all else.

Most warranties are fairly useless 'insurance' products, if the engine is destroyed because the cam belt snapped the insurance will not pay out as they will say the belt was not replaced at the right time.
Oh....yeah. Don't buy these ......as these three car brands are only sold in very small numbers they must definetily be crappy and expensive.

Lets say, for the sake of argument that a timing belt replacement is 1800 chf and it must be replaced every 120000 km. Wanna do the rappen/km yourself and then add all the other running cost and then tell me if the timing belt really is such a big issue.

And for the record. The Audi/VW/Soda V6 3.0 tdi does not have a timing belt.

To the OP. Remember that any advise is only as good as the people who gives it.

Most advices on cars is based on feelings instead of facts. If you spend 15000 chf on a second hand car you can get some good stuff and some real sh!t and that goes for all brands.

If reliability is important you should check the statistics from Adac and then find a model that suit your needs.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ElggDK for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 11.12.2011, 23:01
ElggDK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ottawa - Canada
Posts: 942
Groaned at 29 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,268 Times in 565 Posts
ElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
A very light car with thin tyres FWD will be good, put low profile tyres on & they will spin if the car is heavy.

If your car got stuck in snow would you try to pull it out of push it? RWD with a LSD works very well, IMHO better than a Peogeot 306 or Citroen BX both got stuck with chaines on.
See what I mean? How can a Citroen BX even be mentioned in a car thread in 2011? How many are still in operating condition in CH.......7....9?

Come on......"low profile tyres will spin"........wow.....this is really valuable information.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11.12.2011, 23:08
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Quote:
View Post
Oh....yeah. Don't buy these ......as these three car brands are only sold in very small numbers they must definetily be crappy and expensive.

Lets say, for the sake of argument that a timing belt replacement is 1800 chf and it must be replaced every 120000 km. Wanna do the rappen/km yourself and then add all the other running cost and then tell me if the timing belt really is such a big issue.

And for the record. The Audi/VW/Soda V6 3.0 tdi does not have a timing belt.

To the OP. Remember that any advise is only as good as the people who gives it.

Most advices on cars is based on feelings instead of facts. If you spend 15000 chf on a second hand car you can get some good stuff and some real sh!t and that goes for all brands.

If reliability is important you should check the statistics from Adac and then find a model that suit your needs.
Whats good for a new car, is not necessarily good second hand in a country with high labour costs.

Problem is 120k/5 years on a cambelt is pushing it in many cases, if you buy a 6 year old car with 80k it should really be changed. Many main dealers will will want more than 1800 CHF

I do 3 oil + filter changes a year, 1 set front pads air / fuel filter & plugs costs approx 1.5 rappen a km, why double repair bills because of a cam belt?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11.12.2011, 23:13
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Car for Switzerland - biking/skiing

Quote:
View Post
See what I mean? How can a Citroen BX even be mentioned in a car thread in 2011? How many are still in operating condition in CH.......7....9?

Come on......"low profile tyres will spin"........wow.....this is really valuable information.
Sorry I have driven BMW's for 10 years & only put on chains twice, rather than every time it snowed more than a couple of inches. Both times I was in a car park where the metled snow had frozen whilst parked, so on solid ice.

Historically one of the best cars in snow was a 2CV due to incredibly thin tyres, when choosing a car for the mountains it's something to think about. YMMV
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 11.12.2011, 23:30
ElggDK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ottawa - Canada
Posts: 942
Groaned at 29 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,268 Times in 565 Posts
ElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
Whats good for a new car, is not necessarily good second hand in a country with high labour costs.

Problem is 120k/5 years on a cambelt is pushing it in many cases, if you buy a 6 year old car with 80k it should really be changed. Many main dealers will will want more than 1800 CHF

I do 3 oil + filter changes a year, 1 set front pads air / fuel filter & plugs costs approx 1.5 rappen a km, why double repair bills because of a cam belt?
I was not thinking of statistics in new cars but on the older models as Adac record all failures while examining the cars.

And....BTW...I rest my case in the rappen race. I just found your "stay away from Ford....etc" statement to be BS.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
skiing, cross-country skiing and snowboarding FOR SOFTIES Guest Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 30 17.10.2011 21:13
Need car for hiking and skiing? MysteryMachine Daily life 23 18.08.2010 23:06
Mountain biking in Switzerland Archie84 Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 20 18.07.2010 21:59
Mountain biking Switzerland confusedxx Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 5 18.04.2010 20:28
Biking across Switzerland john in Carouge Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 9 25.05.2009 19:02


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0