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Old 09.03.2012, 12:19
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Speed cameras - technical question

Having never had the pleasure of being snapped in Switzerland, I had a quick question about how the cameras work.

I was driving home last night along the motorway, in the right-hand lane. This section of the motorway is an 80km/h limit.

In my rear-view mirror, I noticed a car approaching very quickly. Since I knew there was a speed camera ahead and was pretty sure that the idiot in the left lane was going to set it off, I didn't want there to be any doubt about whether I was speeding or not. So I slowed down to about 65km/h.

Sure enough, Donny Dutchman managed to trigger the camera -- but this camera only flashes one when it's triggered, and when it did, Donny Dutchman and I were about neck-and-neck. Are the cameras smart enough to know which one of us was speeding, and which wasn't?

In the UK, the cameras take two pictures -- so it is very clear which is the faster-moving vehicle. With a single flash, I'm not sure how they can tell which of the two vehicles was speeding?

(The camera seemed to be doing brisk business last night -- I saw it flash three people in a row!)
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Old 09.03.2012, 12:29
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

The same thing happened to me recently. I travel the same route
every day and know where the cameras are.

Three weeks ago, a person right next to me was speeding
and flashed exactly as my car went by......

Until now, I have not received a speeding ticket.

Technically, I am not sure how this works.
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Old 09.03.2012, 12:32
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

I think if they are not sure they won't give anyone a ticket.
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Old 09.03.2012, 12:38
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

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I think if they are not sure they won't give anyone a ticket.
Then it was Donny Dutchman's lucky day. Driving Miss Daisy in the right-hand lane may have saved him a few francs!
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Old 09.03.2012, 12:44
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

Often they put sensors in the road, two in a row and measure the speed based on the time difference between the car going over each sensor and the distance between them. If it's like that there is usually a sensor for each lane and it is probably logged somehow which lane triggered the camera.

There are probably dozens of other techniques available though, radar and stuff.. I'm far from being an expert in these matters.

edit: A wikipedia article on the speed cameras: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit_enforcement
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Old 09.03.2012, 12:48
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

I think they can find out who was speeding. If not, then there will be no fine. If there are two photos they will be within 0.5 seconds.


http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/fileadmin/...U110009-O1.pdf
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Old 09.03.2012, 12:50
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

Nah ... you'll get done for speeding and overtaking on the wrong side/inside (undertaking).

Dutch drivers are usually too stoned to speed.

Easier to pursue Swiss plates, than foreign ones.
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Old 09.03.2012, 13:04
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

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Sure enough, Donny Dutchman managed to trigger the camera -- but this camera only flashes one when it's triggered, and when it did, Donny Dutchman and I were about neck-and-neck. Are the cameras smart enough to know which one of us was speeding, and which wasn't?
Yes they are. I've had a similar experience on a few occasions, once I recall specifically memorising the (Russian) car's number plate, as he'd cut up on my inside at >140kph where there's a 120 camera on the autoroute. He was definitely doing enough to get a ticket, I was definitely not, but I never heard anything about it.

Of course, as soon as I'd passed the camera I speeded up again, so he was frustrated at still being behind me
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Old 09.03.2012, 13:28
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

What is the Swiss position legally in regard to radar detectors? I read on a forum that it is illegal to have a GPS that warns you of speed-trap locations. Has to be a wind up surely as I can't see how they could enforce that.
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Old 09.03.2012, 13:40
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

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What is the Swiss position legally in regard to radar detectors? I read on a forum that it is illegal to have a GPS that warns you of speed-trap locations. Has to be a wind up surely as I can't see how they could enforce that.
Well I've never heard of it being enforced but it's certainly the law, yes.

The one place I've noticed it is that GPS providers like Tom-Tom and Garmin offer subscription services for regular camera updates, but these are not supplied to Switzerland at all.

Of course, one can just go to http://www.scdb.info/en/ instead, although interestingly I see that's now made it onto our company's banned list so I can't see it from work any more.
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Old 09.03.2012, 13:42
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

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What is the Swiss position legally in regard to radar detectors? I read on a forum that it is illegal to have a GPS that warns you of speed-trap locations. Has to be a wind up surely as I can't see how they could enforce that.
Easily - when you're stopped - for a routine check or an offence - and they see a GPS, they can check the software for radar warnings, and if found, they can confiscate and or fine.

This may not 100% accurate, but the gist is true - someone may provide a more definitive answer.

I believe the same is now true in France, too.
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Old 09.03.2012, 13:52
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

I'm not sure what benefit a radar detector would be when you're faced with laser driven speed cameras. The thought I had in mind was a laser jammer for the front and rear. In the US, these work quite effectively. Essentially they create an error message on the officer's laser, you disable and slow down, he re-reads your speed and you continue on. I have no idea whether this is effective for speed cameras in Switzerland. There's no way it's legal though.

Once I get my car, I'll be using the "Trapster" app on my iPhone which will be sitting down out of sight in the console. I don't expect any enforcement issues. I did get a built-in GPS system for the car, so they should work well in tandem.
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Old 09.03.2012, 14:07
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

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What is the Swiss position legally in regard to radar detectors? I read on a forum that it is illegal to have a GPS that warns you of speed-trap locations. Has to be a wind up surely as I can't see how they could enforce that.
Illegal. Art. 57b SVG
See also Federal Court Ruling 6B 352/2008
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Old 09.03.2012, 21:12
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

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I read on a forum that it is illegal to have a GPS that warns you of speed-trap locations. Has to be a wind up surely as I can't see how they could enforce that.
Yes, it's illegal, but as you said it's basically unenforceable these days when every smartphone has GPS capability.

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I'm not sure what benefit a radar detector would be when you're faced with laser driven speed cameras.
I've read about laser detectors in the US, I have no idea if they're any good though. (And probably wouldn't work here anyway, due to different wavelengths of the lasers.)

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Three weeks ago, a person right next to me was speeding
and flashed exactly as my car went by......

Until now, I have not received a speeding ticket.

Technically, I am not sure how this works.
Some more modern cameras can properly assign the speed driven to every single car.

Older ones usually can't. If they happen to take a picture with several cars on it, the measurement is supposed to be thrown out.
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Old 27.07.2012, 11:08
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

Holy thread revival batman!

You need two sequential flashes and unobstructed view of measured road markings to distinguish the speed difference of two objects in the frame, to allow sufficient proof "beyond doubt" in the event of legal prosecution.

Any doubt - no ticket. So it was definitely the Dutchman's lucky day...
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Old 27.07.2012, 11:33
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

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Holy thread revival batman!

You need two sequential flashes and unobstructed view of measured road markings to distinguish the speed difference of two objects in the frame, to allow sufficient proof "beyond doubt" in the event of legal prosecution.

Any doubt - no ticket. So it was definitely the Dutchman's lucky day...
This is not true, the laser installations in Switzerland often will only flash once.

The camera can also denote where in the frame the speeder is. They are type-approved in Switzerland for one flash and to handle more than one vehicle in the frame.

Otherwise those cameras on Rosengartenstrasse in Zurich would not be adding so well to the donut fund
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Old 27.07.2012, 12:31
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

Generally speaking, what surprises me are the lengths people will go through to break the law and spend money on gadgets in addition no matter how much it may cost.

There is a reason why there are speed-limits and they are there for not only yours but more importantly my safety.

Speed doesn't kill, incompetent drivers do who can't handle it so we must have speed limits.
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Old 27.07.2012, 12:49
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

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Generally speaking, what surprises me are the lengths people will go through to break the law and spend money on gadgets in addition no matter how much it may cost.

There is a reason why there are speed-limits and they are there for not only yours but more importantly my safety.

Speed doesn't kill, incompetent drivers do who can't handle it so we must have speed limits.
Agree: Selfish muppets.

Agree, but not all limits are set based purely on safety criteria. Some are set artificially low, and regulated by revenue camera.

Agree: But if speed is not the factor in most accidents surely better driving instruction and testing is the answer?
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Old 27.07.2012, 14:10
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This is not true, the laser installations in Switzerland often will only flash once.
I think that they may flash twice if they detect more than one vehicle in range. This happened to me yesterday when a car in the inside lane accelerated away from me at just over the threshold at a 100kph camera on the motorway approaching Luzern. I'd set my speed on the cruise control, so knew I was safe, but it flashed once as he approached the camera, then again as he went past. Pretty sure it's done that way so they can work out the relative gap to be sure of getting the right vehicle.

On the same camera, if I can remember correctly, I got flashed once some years back, and it was only a single flash. Certainly I've had single flashes from other cameras of the same type.
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Old 27.07.2012, 14:12
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Re: Speed cameras - technical question

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Generally speaking, what surprises me are the lengths people will go through to break the law and spend money on gadgets in addition no matter how much it may cost.
You misunderstand. They're going to break the law anyway, the lengths and gadgets are simply means of avoiding being penalised for it.

You may not see a difference, but it's there.
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