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  #21  
Old 26.07.2012, 09:27
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

Thank you for your input - highly appreciated in deed.

I have seen that most cars I have checked up on from a Porsche dealer do not offer any warranty what so ever whereas smaller dealers do. I would guess that there is some kind of "safety" net, ok still with 10% own part payment, with a Quality1 warranty than none at all?

I'm getting a little bit worried now tbh

My want/search history:

1. I started out to view cheaper models 996's and quickly learnt that there were certain problems with the early models (around 5-10% of all produced cars) so this was without question a no-go area

2. Started to look at 2000+ 3.4L's Carrera but quickly thought that a rear drive car in Switzerland is probably not the best idea as we want to be able to go skiing (localy)

3. Started to look for a 2000+ 996 3.4L Carrera4 cab with tiptronic as I believed tiptronics would have been kinder to the engine (no over revs) and no need to change parts as with a manual. Then thought about driving around in Europe with a cab probably would mean that I would need duct-tape to repair knife-cuts etc

4. OK, back to the the coupe and now a 2001+ 996 3.4L Carerra as I learnt that users in the North East of the US had no problems with help of the PSM and proper winter tyres. Then I saw, for a little more money, a 3.6L was within reach AND that the PSM maybe not is so great after all so a Carrera is now off the list

5. Back now to a 2002+ 996 C4 with tiptronic, but after reading this, I'm not too sure with the tiptronic tbh as I don't want to spend my savings on a car which I need to have fixed 2 month lafter for 1/4 of the inital cost (my other half would kill me and maybe I would be better of that way if it should happen). This said, never can be 100% sure and I have that in the calcualtion as well

6. So now, I'm caught between a 2000-2003 996 C4 Cab (with Hardtop)/Coupe 3.4/3.6, manual, with the non-saggy looking seats and maybe a C4S also manual (all non-smoking vehicles of course)

I have during my research bought magazines (Ultimate 911, the 996 issues), read different Porsche forums in both The UK and The US from A to Z, read books on the subject and I actually am getting more and more confused of what to do.

One thing I'm kind of hanging on to (might very well be wrong here):

1. Porsche owners are usually "enthusiasts" to the point where it is a very specialized every-day-to-day usable car and they have been looked after quite well (they are not cheap).
2. It seems like Swiss in general look after their belongings and with a car like this would have been looked after.

Last but not least: I would NEVER buy a car without full service history which I believe most Porsche's have. If not I'm not interested and will walk away without a doubt.

Any pointers and/or help would be FANTASTIC as you can see I have been all over the place so far...

PS. I spend hours every evening looking at the same cars through Comparis and change my mind just as often as I open a to look at a new vehicle. No, a 986 is not an option
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  #22  
Old 26.07.2012, 10:48
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

wow, you need to calm down on this
Firstly, getting a cab does not mean one of the unwashed will want to stick a knife in your roof, never had an issue in the last 10 years, and for the last 9 months I lived in Bratislava (nothing again Bratislava, its a fantastic place).
Getting a '4' instead of a '2' is a sensable choice, dont wory about what kind of electrical control your have, your right foot will do just fine
Decide if you want the facelift or not, then just buy the car on condition.
A full Porsche (or specialist) service history a must, aftermarket parts a no no,
Im surprised at your comments re Porsche and warrantee, I would double check, any Porsche bought from Porsche second hand should come with a years Porsche warrantee, or at least in the UK it does.
And RMS, its a gamble on all cars, not just the early ones, but the vast majority are all good, its been blown out of proportion by the internet, just ensure its not dropping any oil.
Enjoy the process, and try not to buy a tiptronic, its just wrong in a Porsche
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  #23  
Old 26.07.2012, 11:16
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

Thanks SW You did calm me down so BP down a tad

The cars I found on Comparis sold through a Porsche dealer didn't mention anything about warranty's so I take it they come without one. Could be because the 996 is getting a bit older these days...

I'm getting a manual C4 for sure now (either 3.4 or 3.6) and either cab/coupe so great I got it narrowed down and think I'll stick to this (for now anyway).

I know that most Porsches do drip some oil now and then and one should always keep an eye on the dipstick under all circumstance as half a liter per 1'500 km is not uncommon (unless I got something wrong here).

Thanks again for your valuable feedback.

//F2K
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  #24  
Old 26.07.2012, 11:35
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

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A full Porsche (or specialist) service history a must, aftermarket parts a no no,
I don't know, most aftermarket parts of Porsche are OEM in any case, I generally buy everything from either the UK or USA.

www.pelicanparts.com
www.eurocarparts.com
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Old 26.07.2012, 11:37
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

Re dripping oil, I would not expect that, neither of my cars ever did.
Re RMS, not sure how much you know, but it stands for rear main seal, its a tiny plastic plug that can weep oil and give a slow drip, it need replacing if this is happening. The part cost a few CHF, the labour a few thousand often a good time to replace the clutch or the other way around.
Owning a Porsche is expensive, but, not only are you rewarded in fantatic driving experiance, but low depreciation offsetts alot of those costs, especially if you buy wisely, so not so bad if you consider the whole package/costs from start to finish.
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Old 26.07.2012, 11:40
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

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R
Owning a Porsche is expensive, but, not only are you rewarded in fantatic .
Only if you go to main dealers in CH, I did 1 servive in Germany 10 years ago (1/3 cost of CH) & done the rest myself eversince.
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Old 26.07.2012, 13:22
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

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Only if you go to main dealers in CH, I did 1 servive in Germany 10 years ago (1/3 cost of CH) & done the rest myself eversince.
My plan is to have major services done in Germany when I head home for holidays which further north of Germany anyway Isn't this something customs will ask about btw? When you cross the border and they might want to see the service book they surely can see a service has been carried out abroad (yes, I know you can send the service book by mail to yourself but still)?

Do you stamp the service book yourself then

How much would the yearly (minor) service set you back in here?
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Old 26.07.2012, 13:30
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

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My plan is to have major services done in Germany when I head home for holidays which further north of Germany anyway Isn't this something customs will ask about btw? When you cross the border and they might want to see the service book they surely can see a service has been carried out abroad (yes, I know you can send the service book by mail to yourself but still)?

Do you stamp the service book yourself then

How much would the yearly (minor) service set you back in here?
You claim back the German VAT & pay the Swiss VAT, so you do want to stop at customs.

No idea what a minor service would cost here, 14 years ago I paid 180 for an abgas test at a Porsche stealer, never paid more than 50 since. The claim it's an 'abgus wartung' & pretend they need to make adjustments when all they need to do is connect the test machine.

At the same time I was told a full service was need immediately at a minimium of 2500 chf, 3 years later I did it in DE for 1600 DM / 800 Euro.
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Old 26.07.2012, 13:35
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

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The claim it's an 'abgus wartung' & pretend they need to make adjustments when all they need to do is connect the test machine.

At the same time I was told a full service was need immediately at a minimium of 2500 chf, 3 years later I did it in DE for 1600 DM / 800 Euro.
How on earth would someone like me know? I guess I could take my (future) car to a garage and ask for a second opinion...

This is the part I hate about getting a car (never had a car in my life before and I'm born early 70'ish )... Almost enough to put me off tbh
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  #30  
Old 26.07.2012, 13:45
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

Well to make your life a little easier....

My advise is the car you want is the 996 c4s. As your dream car it will tick all the boxes, get a manual and a roof. Avoid the cab, not because people slash it as actually it's not easy to cut one, but because the coupe is how the car was designed and if you are after handling and poise a car that's had it's roof cut off won't do it.... just my 2 cents
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Old 26.07.2012, 14:15
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You've never owned a car before and you are starting with a Porsche. Like your style .... Enjoy :-)
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  #32  
Old 26.07.2012, 16:15
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

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You've never owned a car before and you are starting with a Porsche. Like your style .... Enjoy :-)
To be 100% truthful, I did actually start to look at a Maserati GT3200 (when owned by FIAT) and then the newer 4.2L GT (when taken over by Ferrari), BUT knowing that this car would spend more time in the garage than my own home draining my bank account for cash I decided to go for a safer and sturdier choice, the 996

I know this car is going to cost me a lot of money and I have this included in the overall calculation but as many owners keep on saying: They all have a huge grin over their faces when turning the key and driving off into the sunset
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Old 26.07.2012, 16:29
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

Hi there...

Few opinions on my side. I wouldn't go with owning only one car, especially when it is a Porsche. Why? Because even the AWD system is not as efficient as in a normal wagon/SUV car, you will get HUGE depreciation if you have a lot KM on the clock...Something you don't wanna do.

If you need a car for everyday commute...30k second hand porsche is not for you. Well, at least in the case when it is the primary car. If I were you, I'd get the Porsche in 2WD version and buy another 4WD wagon or even sedan car to put most of your mileage on. Like audi quatro or BMW. These babies go and go and you can easily buy cheap one with 200k km and put another 200k with minor repairs if you buy the right one. Imagine doing 200k with the Porsche It will cost you huge on repairs and maintenance and it will be worth 0 if you plan to resell and upgrade later.

But choosing Porsche as your first car...Maybe not the best idea. But old Audi/BMW sedan + Porsche for weekends... Can't argue with that!

Good luck with your search...from a very jealous reader wishing it was in your position to contemplate buying Porsche!
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  #34  
Old 26.07.2012, 17:13
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

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Hi there...

Few opinions on my side. I wouldn't go with owning only one car, especially when it is a Porsche.
Coworker has:

- a commute-car: Smart
- a Porsche Cayman

the later he spends a good portion of his salary on, because he goes to "meetups" all over Europe where they drive around in race-tracks etc.

That said, he can borrow the company-owned Roomster or Caddy if he has to move furniture etc. around. So if this is not an option for you, a smart may be too small.
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Old 26.07.2012, 17:18
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

3 more cents from me.

1. Have you driven a 987 Boxster? If not, don't knock it. Have you driven a Cayman S? Also fantastic. Not only are these two cars better looking than the 996, but they're cheaper and incredible on the twisties. In S spec, with the 6spd manual I can't imagine wanting more frankly.

2. I second the idea of having two cars if possible. Some kind of runabout AWD wagon for going to the supermarket, Coop Brico, etc. This way you can pick up a RWD 996 and not bother with the added weight and complexity of the AWD system. At the same time, buy one and drive it. Don't worry about depreciation because the 996 is one of the least desirable 911s and they made a ton of them...so depreciate it will. I say so what...a 996 is the perfect opportunity to enjoy the car as it's not a collector model.

3. You should not be worrying about clutch replacement at all. A well maintained and adult driven Porsche won't need a clutch for 200k km. and I doubt many you're looking at have over 100k km.
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  #36  
Old 26.07.2012, 17:31
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

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3 more cents from me.

1. Have you driven a 987 Boxster? If not, don't knock it. Have you driven a Cayman S? Also fantastic. Not only are these two cars better looking than the 996, but they're cheaper and incredible on the twisties. In S spec, with the 6spd manual I can't imagine wanting more frankly.


.
I agree with you there. I had a Cayman S and loved it. If I were to get a Porsche, I never wanted to see the engine. I had the Manual and it was fantastic. I'll prob go for the Cayman R next.
I had to sell it though when I left Switzerland. Actually, the friend I sold it to is now selling his Auto 996.
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  #37  
Old 26.07.2012, 20:15
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

No need to try and convince me what's a better model buy ;-) I want a 996 and as we all know beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the boxster or the cayman just don't do it for me.

I use the wonderful services of CFF/SBB getting to and from work so I'm covered and don't want a second car ;-)

Thanks for the thoughts though :-)
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Old 26.07.2012, 21:29
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

I don't know if it's of any use, but considering price, reliability, driving pleasure and power I would seriously consider a 2005+ Nissan 350... I'm sure you can find one with less money than a Porsche and you get similar (if not equal, as you will get a newer model) horse power + you might find a good deal on a newer 370... It also gives you the pleasure of ppl looking strangely at you thinking you are driving a 1.4 liter convertible and the next moment you are 200m ahead of them... :-) Anyway....
Of course I realize you are more or less settled, but just wanted to share this thought...
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Old 27.07.2012, 00:54
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

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No need to try and convince me what's a better model buy ;-) I want a 996 and as we all know beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the boxster or the cayman just don't do it for me.

I use the wonderful services of CFF/SBB getting to and from work so I'm covered and don't want a second car ;-)

Thanks for the thoughts though :-)
You stick to your guns mate Cayman S is a great car and well ballanced but it's not a 911. As far as the boxster, yes the s is good but every owner's first convo about the car is "why I brought a boxster and not a 911 is..."

As long as you avoid the early 3.4 there isnt much of an issue. 3.6 is leauges ahead and why I recomend the S is with the wider stance and setup, not only does it look better but the handling is sublime; it's a turbo without well the turbo.. Automatically you have the great 3.6 and they also hold money better.

As far as other comments about 911s not doing the mileage, absolute tosh ;they are the one sports car you can use every day without panic or worry, that engine shows little sign of wear after 100,000 miles and is designed to do more than double that. Of course there are new contenders on the block you can use and abuse like the GTR, R8 and new lambos but the porker was the first. As far as running and servicing in fact some audis and beamers cost more, some even cost more to live with than an F430! To address the 4wd system being inferior to that of an estate or suv, also utter rubbish, if you want to off road then yes a land rover or rangie is better, but to get up a snowy pass, just like a. 4 ringed monster or a scooby it's more than up to it.

I've been around 9 double ones since I can remember and although I no longer have a 911 gracing my drive fmf still does and he knows of what he speaks. ( i currently have one of those insane Audis that return less fuel per klic than a turbo will, oh and boy would I dream of paying the anual tax on a 3.6! )

If you find a good 4s all the "what about other choices" will pale into the background. A very close friend of mine was high up in Porsche UK and now is head of Porsche China and we used to spend some fightening time ragging cars stupid at a weekend with ex top gear stig Perry McCarthy , here are a few unoffical Porsche stats...:

Yes there were problems with some of the earlier 996 3.4 blocks there was a stud that held a sproket in place that could break meaning the cam chain could disengage thus putting the engine in suicide, the 3.6 was designed around this problem and subsequent 3.4s also. This type fault was however never recongnised by Stutgart AG as a lot didnt fail, it was re designed none the less.

The cayman is one of the best ballanced and composed chassis with the mid engined approach but it was intentionally held back on power so as not to challange the flagship 911, now the newer quicker models are out the amazing R appears

Porsche aim to get as much usable power as possible to the road, although 320 ps doesn't sound like a lot today it's all usable..

The 4wd system is heavy and the car is not as live as a rear drive model, BUT it is composed and an average to good driver can get it round bends so well to be " threatened * you would need to be persued by a VERY compitant race driver in say an SLR. The average Joe Bloggs on this Forum will be quicker in an AWD, everyone likes to think they are great and needs the ballance of a RWD but in truth this also is poppy cock as they most likely have never been really on the edge of a supercar. Exception insert; Dodgy Ken knows what it is to race and can feel the car. I consider myself a good Pilot in my own egotistical way but having grown up with racing legends I know i'm nowhere close, little too much fear, I feel more confident with the car helping me if I run out of tallent, after all who wants to get in a car that feels like it's trying to kill you.

Last unsaid Porsche stat...

A whopping 70 persent of GT2s sold saw their way back to the dealership within a couple of months. Why? A fair few trashed as the driver had indeed run out of tallent thinking a hard core rwd turbo was exactly what they needed and were man enough for...and the others... Returned by sensible people who thought they didn't want an early grave and this would put them there so " we'll take a turbo S please instead"
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Old 27.07.2012, 01:07
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Re: Buying Used Car through dealership.

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To address the 4wd system being inferior to that of an estate or suv, also utter rubbish, if you want to off road then yes a land rover or rangie is better, but to get up a snowy pass
Err, well, kinda...

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