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  #101  
Old 29.03.2012, 13:07
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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yep, I grew up in the uk, but they used different batteries then, not the laptop type superhot ones, and the trams etc don't use batteries
The older Germanics may remember the gyroscope bus form the 50ties and 60ties, it ran just like a kids scoot backwards and release toy car.
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  #102  
Old 29.03.2012, 13:28
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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True, and up untill the 1920ies electric and internal combustion engined cars ran head to head, have a gander into the Schlumpf car museum in Mulhouse to see what I mean.
Howard Huges had a steam car built for him that was on par with any petrol driven car of the period, sadly he had it scrapped before it was commercialy developed.
True. I can't remember where but I recall looking at a 1920s (or thereabouts) fire engine in a museum that had three-phase electric hub motors driven by a petrol generator.
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  #103  
Old 29.03.2012, 13:58
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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The older Germanics may remember the gyroscope bus form the 50ties and 60ties, it ran just like a kids scoot backwards and release toy car.
Germanics? The first gyrobus was developed by Oerlikon-Buerle in Zurich but served Yverdon-les-Bains and Grandson (1953 - 1960), which don't sound very Germanic. The second location in then Belgian Congo isn't exactly Germanic either. Maybe the few years in Ghent, Belgium?
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  #104  
Old 29.03.2012, 14:22
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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Germanics? The first gyrobus was developed by Oerlikon-Buerle in Zurich but served Yverdon-les-Bains and Grandson (1953 - 1960), which don't sound very Germanic. The second location in then Belgian Congo isn't exactly Germanic either. Maybe the few years in Ghent, Belgium?
The very first public service was actually from Zürich Seebach to Kloten Airport. I think that one ran for several months as a demonstrator but VBZ declined to buy the bus or make it permanent. The only surving gyrobus today is in a museum in Antwerp. So the Germanic connection is indeed weak but not absent.
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  #105  
Old 29.03.2012, 23:43
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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The very first public service was actually from Zürich Seebach to Kloten Airport. I think that one ran for several months as a demonstrator but VBZ declined to buy the bus or make it permanent. The only surving gyrobus today is in a museum in Antwerp. So the Germanic connection is indeed weak but not absent.
Slammer is in Antwerp at the moment so I just godda see this? watch this space for more..
Fulda used to have the
Gyrobus and it was demonstrated in quite a few towns around Germany in a sort of showcase "shape of the future thing"
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  #106  
Old 30.08.2016, 11:38
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

I'm thinking about buying Opel Ampera to travel to/from work (Lausanne - Neuchatel) using only electric power but without range anxiety... I was also considering new Volvo V60 which has a range of 1400 km on a tank of diesel but they are too expensive atm. Also, Tesla 3 is still two years away from the market... Ehhh what to buy...

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you think if i was embarrased about it I'd have it as my avatar?
Neither are hybrids owners. What is your point?
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  #107  
Old 30.08.2016, 11:51
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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I'm thinking about buying Opel Ampera to travel to/from work (Lausanne - Neuchatel) using only electric power but without range anxiety... I was also considering new Volvo V60 which has a range of 1400 km on a tank of diesel but they are too expensive atm. Also, Tesla 3 is still two years away from the market... Ehhh what to buy...



Neither are hybrids owners. What is your point?
Make deep financial calculations...For example in CH the price between petrol and diesel is almost identical (high diesel taxes).
Compare consumption vs running cost vs additional purchase cost. And your annual mileage.

I found for that vehicle hybrid, it would take nearly 10 years to compensate the price difference! (not even paying less thanks to fuel economy!!!).
I used 20K KM /year for calculations. Of course the more KM, the better advantage for hybrid. hybrid vs petrol.
I also did vs diesel, etc...

Oh and the financial advantage for allegedly driving ecologically is close to null, but again it depends on Cantons. Yeah ok for a vehicle with sticker "A" in FR one saves maybe 1000chf in 3 years, avoiding the tax. Almost a peanut!

So yeah, maybe Hybrids are trendy, yet in most cases the financial advantage goes in the manufacturer's pocket. At least in CH.
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  #108  
Old 30.08.2016, 11:56
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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Make deep financial calculations...For example in CH the price between petrol and diesel is almost identical (high diesel taxes).
Compare consumption vs running cost vs additional purchase cost. And your annual mileage.

I found for that vehicle hybrid, it would take nearly 10 years to compensate the price difference! (not even paying less thanks to fuel economy!!!).
I used 20K KM /year for calculations. Of course the more KM, the better advantage for hybrid. hybrid vs petrol.
I also did vs diesel, etc...

Oh and the financial advantage for allegedly driving ecologically is close to null, but again it depends on Cantons. Yeah ok for a vehicle with sticker "A" in FR one saves maybe 1000chf in 3 years, avoiding the tax. Almost a peanut!

So yeah, maybe Hybrids are trendy, yet in most cases the financial advantage goes in the manufacturer's pocket. At least in CH.
Thanks.

So lets say 23k CHF, 1 year old Ampera with 19kkm on the clock...Maybe you are right and I can find a good diesel for that price and mileage... But not BMW
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  #109  
Old 30.08.2016, 12:00
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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Thanks.

So lets say 23k CHF, 1 year old Ampera with 19kkm on the clock...Maybe you are right and I can find a good diesel for that price and mileage... But not BMW
If it's simply for highway travels, get an older V6. Lower operating cost, same gas mileage on the highway and added comfort if you go for a luxury sedan.
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  #110  
Old 30.08.2016, 12:05
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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If it's simply for highway travels, get an older V6. Lower operating cost, same gas mileage on the highway and added comfort if you go for a luxury sedan.
Are you Jeremy Clarkson's fan? Me too :P But how it can possibly have same gas milage if Lausanne - Neuchatel is only 65 km nad Ampera can do it solely on electric power?
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  #111  
Old 30.08.2016, 12:06
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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Thanks.

So lets say 23k CHF, 1 year old Ampera with 19kkm on the clock...Maybe you are right and I can find a good diesel for that price and mileage... But not BMW
Ok the calculations are not the magic wand!
I did for a few new vehicles, and the results were unique each time. One car was like "equal price" after approx 10 years, one after 4-5 years, etc...

So if you introduce devaluation and 2nd hand price, then surely it's even more complex!

If so, take into account for possible maintenance/repair cost! ex hybrid car might be better on paper then in 3-4 years one need a battery change and bam, your alleged saving or opportunity turns into costly vinegar.

My average conclusion was unless one does over 20 000KM a year minimum, a hybrid car is not making any financial sense at the moment as the economy on fuel only starts after many years.

There are so many cars out there it's really all down to personal choices. For me, I did not see any financial outcome for hybrid.
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  #112  
Old 30.08.2016, 12:10
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

I would go for something like a Golf Diesel instead. It is just as economical, a better car and easier to sell.
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  #113  
Old 30.08.2016, 12:11
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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Are you Jeremy Clarkson's fan? Me too :P But how it can possibly have same gas milage if Lausanne - Neuchatel is only 65 km nad Ampera can do it solely on electric power?
Well, I was comparing it with hybrids..forgot that the Crampera was fully electric.
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  #114  
Old 30.08.2016, 12:11
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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Ok the calculations are not the magic wand!
I did for a few new vehicles, and the results were unique each time. One car was like "equal price" after approx 10 years, one after 4-5 years, etc...

So if you introduce devaluation and 2nd hand price, then surely it's even more complex!

If so, take into account for possible maintenance/repair cost! ex hybrid car might be better on paper then in 3-4 years one need a battery change and bam, your alleged saving or opportunity turns into costly vinegar.

My average conclusion was unless one does over 20 000KM a year minimum, a hybrid car is not making any financial sense at the moment as the economy on fuel only starts after many years.

There are so many cars out there it's really all down to personal choices. For me, I did not see any financial outcome for hybrid.
Ehh it will be 600km a week...So probably 25kkm-30kkm a year.

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Well, I was comparing it with hybrids..forgot that the Crampera was fully electric.
No it's not. It's a plugin hybrid
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  #115  
Old 30.08.2016, 12:22
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

BMWs under 20k with official EU consumption <=5.0l/100km
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  #116  
Old 30.08.2016, 12:34
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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Ehh it will be 600km a week...So probably 25kkm-30kkm a year.



No it's not. It's a plugin hybrid
Well make your calculations!

Clear the hybrid is a fixed additional price on purchase for new cars, say +4000-5000chf vs other models.

Clearly it consumes less fuel.

So clearly, the more KM you're doing, the less fuel you'll burn compare to more consuming models and the less money you'll pay.

And even in your case, consider your daily commute. If it's motorway, flat, (as it is between Lausanne and Neuchatel), the hybrid advantage might not even be that significant.

See the graph in this page:
http://www.kia.com/fr/campaigns-and-...optima-hybrid/.
Mostly normal cruising speed it's only using the petrol engine.

So the theoretical average consumption thanks to hybrid might not even apply to your commute.

Really if it's about saving or cost only you can do calculations.
If it's about ecology or something else then I don't know- Not even sure it's so "green" as advertised. Less emissions of c02 maybe..but then i'm no expert.
Like this EUR6 compliance which made the manufacturers put chemicals to reduce emissions (ad-blue). Looks all some dirty tricks to me.
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  #117  
Old 30.08.2016, 13:00
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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Well make your calculations!

Clear the hybrid is a fixed additional price on purchase for new cars, say +4000-5000chf vs other models.

Clearly it consumes less fuel.

So clearly, the more KM you're doing, the less fuel you'll burn compare to more consuming models and the less money you'll pay.

And even in your case, consider your daily commute. If it's motorway, flat, (as it is between Lausanne and Neuchatel), the hybrid advantage might not even be that significant.

See the graph in this page:
http://www.kia.com/fr/campaigns-and-...optima-hybrid/.
Mostly normal cruising speed it's only using the petrol engine.

So the theoretical average consumption thanks to hybrid might not even apply to your commute.

Really if it's about saving or cost only you can do calculations.
If it's about ecology or something else then I don't know- Not even sure it's so "green" as advertised. Less emissions of c02 maybe..but then i'm no expert.
Like this EUR6 compliance which made the manufacturers put chemicals to reduce emissions (ad-blue). Looks all some dirty tricks to me.
Yes, I will do the calculations. But please remember Ampera is a PLUG-IN type of hybrid and for the distance I will be covering it may be considered as purely electrical vehicle.

But it's a BMW. Those magic three lettres mean THIS

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  #118  
Old 30.08.2016, 13:18
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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Yes, I will do the calculations. But please remember Ampera is a PLUG-IN type of hybrid and for the distance I will be covering it may be considered as purely electrical vehicle.



But it's a BMW. Those magic three lettres mean THIS

How much cost the KW? and how many KW it consumes?

Unless you can charge it at work
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  #119  
Old 30.08.2016, 13:40
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

Whatever happened to the hydrogen car hype from a few years back, seemed to be working quite well if I remember correctly.
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  #120  
Old 30.08.2016, 14:17
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Re: Why So Few Hybrid Cars?

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Whatever happened to the hydrogen car hype from a few years back, seemed to be working quite well if I remember correctly.
As far as I can tell the Hydrogen car hasn't managed to leap the hurdle of providing the filling point infrastructure in any cost effective or widely distributed sense. Currently 23 filling stations in the US.

Some studies als point out that by the time you factor in the environmental impact of generating the gas it turns out that they have the same or worse carbon footprint, they just emit it at a different location. The same argument applies to electric, but at least there the infrastructure to deliver the energy is already in place.

Combine that with what is widely perceived to be sitting on a bomb, it is probably a hard sell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle#Hydrogen
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