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Old 15.05.2012, 20:18
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Re: Tom tom speed warnings Swiss

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Cameras are there as a deterrent - if devices warn you- deterrent gone! Just plain common sense.
Fixed cameras are a fine deterrent for a few hundred meters around the camera location. That's why they make sense in accident hotspots or in places where it's actually dangerous to go over the speed limit. And if they're indeed set up in such places then it's in everybody's best interest that as many people as possible know about it and therefore don't speed, isn't it?

However as a general deterrent they're a rather poor choice. The locals know about it after a few days and from that day it's nothing more than a trap for the uninitiated.

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I know of a few permanent ones and people speed to within 100m, slam on the breaks, amble past and then start speeding all over again (hands up - even me!).
See...? Even you.

The best general speeding deterrent are plenty of cops on the road, equipped with mobile radars, laser guns and video cameras, preferably stopping speeders right away.

Unfortunately that's also the approach that costs the most money and generates relatively little revenue.
  #162  
Old 15.05.2012, 20:48
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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You absolut right,lets set the limit to 60 km/h and have the same argument 70,80or 100km/h
I have nothing against the limits, but what I'm trying to say it's absurd having a speed camera detecting if somebody is doing 55km/h where only 50 is allowed and saying that this will improve safety in the traffic...

fining somebody driving 5-10 km/h too fast has NO impact on improving safety in the traffic...it is probably more dangerous trying to focusing balancing your speed around 50...or whatever the limit is

lets use common sense and not exaggerate ok...
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  #163  
Old 15.05.2012, 22:06
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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I have nothing against the limits, but what I'm trying to say it's absurd having a speed camera detecting if somebody is doing 55km/h where only 50 is allowed and saying that this will improve safety in the traffic...

fining somebody driving 5-10 km/h too fast has NO impact on improving safety in the traffic...it is probably more dangerous trying to focusing balancing your speed around 50...or whatever the limit is

lets use common sense and not exaggerate ok...
Yes looking constantly at the speedometer is distracting, one may hit somebody at full 50 km/h, instead of 3 km/h
  #164  
Old 16.05.2012, 00:02
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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Yes looking constantly at the speedometer is distracting, one may hit somebody at full 50 km/h, instead of 3 km/h
You're not a particularly proficient driver if you have to be checking your speedo all the time. Drivers are welcome to drive under the limit knowing they have a 'comfort margin' up to the limit.

Nobody's freedom is at stake. If the limit were 15% higher people would moan at that, too.

The daft ha'p'orths...

Cherry lips?

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  #165  
Old 16.05.2012, 01:19
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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You're not a particularly proficient driver if you have to be checking your speedo all the time.
This is partially true for me, but my excuse is I got my license very recently and getting used to the car...but I find myself looking less and less as the days go by... practice makes perfect
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  #166  
Old 16.05.2012, 08:58
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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This is partially true for me, but my excuse is I got my license very recently and getting used to the car...but I find myself looking less and less as the days go by... practice makes perfect
When I first started racing motorbikes, I was encouraged to cover up my speedo, and learn to ride purely on the messages the machine gave me. Amazingly, after a few sessions of doing this, I was notably faster and smoother through the corners.

I'm not advocating this for road use naturally, but it does show that by not focusing too much on one aspect, you can "tune in" to your bike/car more, and ride/drive better as a result.

I would trust a good driver who was 5kph over the limit, but fully in control of his vehicle and aware of their surroundings and road conditions, rather than someone under the limit, but was mechanically and situationly oblivious.

Like the old dear this morning leaving Adlibach - 45kph (good), but with a very soft/flat front tyre, and a squint rear mirror pointing at the back seat. Not speeding...but a total danger to herself and other road users.

Are we on 10 pages yet?
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  #167  
Old 16.05.2012, 09:59
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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When I first started racing motorbikes, I was encouraged to cover up my speedo, and learn to ride purely on the messages the machine gave me. Amazingly, after a few sessions of doing this, I was notably faster and smoother through the corners.

I'm not advocating this for road use naturally, but it does show that by not focusing too much on one aspect, you can "tune in" to your bike/car more, and ride/drive better as a result.

I would trust a good driver who was 5kph over the limit, but fully in control of his vehicle and aware of their surroundings and road conditions, rather than someone under the limit, but was mechanically and situationly oblivious.

Like the old dear this morning leaving Adlibach - 45kph (good), but with a very soft/flat front tyre, and a squint rear mirror pointing at the back seat. Not speeding...but a total danger to herself and other road users.

Are we on 10 pages yet?
I would also add this, given the following 2 situatons:
a) 50 km/h second gear
b) 55 km/h third gear

Most people with no access to speedometer would say that in b) you're going slower, just because the engine is quieter.

With this we should have 10 pages
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  #168  
Old 16.05.2012, 10:03
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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I would also add this, given the following 2 situatons:
a) 50 km/h second gear
b) 55 km/h third gear

Most people with no access to speedometer would say that in b) you're going slower, just because the engine is quieter.

With this we should have 10 pages
You forgot c) 45 km/h first gear!

Tom

P.S. Most of my bikes will exceed 100 km/h in first.
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  #169  
Old 23.05.2012, 17:40
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

v^2 = u^2 + 2as (standard kinematics equation)

=> s=(v^2-u^2)/2a

My car is going at 50 kmph. I see danger at point A and brake immediately. I come to a complete stop at point B which is at a distance s of (0^2 - 50^2)/2a (forget SI units for the time being, it doesn't make a difference at the end) away from point A.

Now, in a parallel universe, my car is going at 53 kmph. I see the same danger at point A and brake immediately. Obviously, I won't come to a complete stop at a point B this time. But what is my speed v' at point B now?

s = (v'^2-53^2)/2a = (0^2-50^2)/2a

Solving for v', I get:

v' = sqrt(53^2-50^2) = 17.6 kmph (to 3 s.f.)

If I only just managed to avoid hitting someone at point B by abiding to the speed limit, I will hit that person at around 17 kmph if I were ONLY 3 kmph over the limit. How can they POSSIBLY fine me for going ONLY A FEW kmph above the limit???

QED

/thread
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  #170  
Old 23.05.2012, 17:47
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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v^2 = u^2 + 2as (standard kinematics equation)

=> s=(v^2-u^2)/2a

My car is going at 50 kmph. I see danger at point A and brake immediately. I come to a complete stop at point B which is at a distance s of (0^2 - 50^2)/2a (forget SI units for the time being, it doesn't make a difference at the end) away from point A.

Now, in a parallel universe, my car is going at 53 kmph. I see the same danger at point A and brake immediately. Obviously, I won't come to a complete stop at a point B this time. But what is my speed v' at point B now?

s = (v'^2-53^2)/2a = (0^2-50^2)/2a

Solving for v', I get:

v' = sqrt(53^2-50^2) = 17.6 kmph (to 3 s.f.)

If I only just managed to avoid hitting someone at point B by abiding to the speed limit, I will hit that person at around 17 kmph if I were ONLY 3 kmph over the limit. How can they POSSIBLY fine me for going ONLY A FEW kmph above the limit???

QED

/thread
You didn't read any of our previous posts, did you?
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  #171  
Old 23.05.2012, 18:09
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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Meanwhile, in real life, my car is going at 53 kmph because I'm actually paying attention to what's happening on the road instead of obsessively watching the speedo. Therefore I see the same danger long before point A and brake immediately. I manage to stop well before point B and everybody is happy.
Fixed that for ya!

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  #172  
Old 23.05.2012, 18:16
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

Fines are so expensive in CH!!! I disposed of my car after I was fined 250 CHF for going through a yellow light that turned red!!! I am a speeder so Switzerland was not going to work for me as a driver! Sorry to hear that!
  #173  
Old 23.05.2012, 18:29
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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Fines are so expensive in CH!!! I disposed of my car after I was fined 250 CHF for going through a yellow light that turned red!!! I am a speeder so Switzerland was not going to work for me as a driver! Sorry to hear that!
So the fines do work as a deterrent. Excellent !

(At least the public transport is there for you )
  #174  
Old 23.05.2012, 18:32
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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When I first started racing motorbikes, I was encouraged to cover up my speedo, and learn to ride purely on the messages the machine gave me. Amazingly, after a few sessions of doing this, I was notably faster and smoother through the corners.

Are we on 10 pages yet?

I was taught to listen to the tone of the engine. 2nd gear around middle C = 55kmh... No good if you are tone deaf tho........
  #175  
Old 23.05.2012, 18:36
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

Woman: Is there a problem, Officer?
Officer: Ma'am, you were speeding.
Woman: Oh, I see.
Officer: Can I see your license please?
Woman: I'd give it to you but I don't have one.
Officer: Don't have one?
Woman: Lost it 4 times for drunk driving.
Officer: I see...Can I see your vehicle registration papers please.
Woman: I can't do that.
Officer: Why not?
Woman: I stole this car.
Officer: Stole it?
Woman: Yes, and I killed and hacked up the owner.
Officer: You what?
Woman: His body parts are in plastic bags in the trunk if you want to see.
The Officer looks at the woman, slowly backs away to his car, and calls for back up.
Within minutes 5 police cars circle the car.
A senior officer slowly approaches the car, clasping his half drawn gun.
Officer 2: Ma'am, could you step out of your vehicle please!
The woman steps out of her vehicle.
Woman: Is there a problem sir?
Officer 2: One of my officers told me that you have stolen this car and murdered the owner.
Woman: Murdered the owner?
Officer 2: Yes, could you please open the trunk of your car, please.
The woman opens the trunk, revealing nothing but an empty trunk.
Officer 2: Is this your car, ma'am?
Woman: Yes, here are the registration papers.
The first officer is stunned.
Officer 2: One of my officers claims that you do not have a driving license.
The woman digs into her handbag and pulls out a clutch purse and hands it to the officer.
The officer snaps open the clutch purse and examines the license.
He looks quite puzzled.
Officer 2: Thank you ma'am, one of my officers told me you didn't have a license,
that you stole this car, and that you murdered and hacked up the owner.
Woman: Betcha the lying bastard told you I was speeding too.
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  #176  
Old 23.05.2012, 19:14
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

I know... is totally useless to get a fine for only 3 km/h

I got it too once..

Cheers,
Aris



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Yeah I just received (in Italy, since my car still has Italian plates) a fine for travelling at 56 Km/h, limit 50, with a tollerance of 3 Km/h, so that makes a "speeding" of 3 Km/h. 33 €.
Now cmon, just printing it, shipping to Italy, handling the fine will make the incoming null for them!
And all of that for 3 Km/h! I didn't even realize I was speeding.
  #177  
Old 23.05.2012, 20:33
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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Fixed that for ya!


Hmm, I wonder where the speeding-related accident statistics stem from if, 'in real life', everyone who is speeding is gifted with the Eye of Providence like you my dear Lord-Jesus-Christ-incarnate. It must be a conspiracy!!!
  #178  
Old 23.05.2012, 20:39
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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v^2 = u^2 + 2as (standard kinematics equation)

=> s=(v^2-u^2)/2a

My car is going at 50 kmph. I see danger at point A and brake immediately. I come to a complete stop at point B which is at a distance s of (0^2 - 50^2)/2a (forget SI units for the time being, it doesn't make a difference at the end) away from point A.

Now, in a parallel universe, my car is going at 53 kmph. I see the same danger at point A and brake immediately. Obviously, I won't come to a complete stop at a point B this time. But what is my speed v' at point B now?

s = (v'^2-53^2)/2a = (0^2-50^2)/2a

Solving for v', I get:

v' = sqrt(53^2-50^2) = 17.6 kmph (to 3 s.f.)

If I only just managed to avoid hitting someone at point B by abiding to the speed limit, I will hit that person at around 17 kmph if I were ONLY 3 kmph over the limit. How can they POSSIBLY fine me for going ONLY A FEW kmph above the limit???

QED

/thread
You lack of common sense and probably don't have any driving license, but anyway, you also didn't put in the other 10-15 parameters (weather, environment, day/night, state of mind, state of your vehicle, etc etc etc) into the equation, school book physics under ideal conditions do not apply to these situations...

put your 5th grade school books aside...
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  #179  
Old 23.05.2012, 20:54
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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Hmm, I wonder where the speeding-related accident statistics stem from if, 'in real life', everyone who is speeding is gifted with the Eye of Providence like you my dear Lord-Jesus-Christ-incarnate. It must be a conspiracy!!!
Can you quote these "speeding-related accident statistics"?

You know the speed unlimited German autobahns have fewer accidents than many other speed limited European countries.

And there is the case of Montana. They had the Federal 55mph limit. When this was cancelled Montana introduced speed unlimited & the death rate went down.
Eventually they replaced that with a 70 mph limit & guess what - the death rate rose again
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  #180  
Old 23.05.2012, 20:58
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Re: Fine for 3 Km/h

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You lack of common sense and probably don't have any driving license, but anyway, you also didn't put in the other 10-15 parameters (weather, environment, day/night, state of mind, state of your vehicle, etc etc etc) into the equation, school book physics under ideal conditions do not apply to these situations...

put your 5th grade school books aside...
First I am declared wrong and now I am deemed to be to much into my '5th grade' books...

It's assumed to be the same car under the same external conditions, dude. How many times do I have to say that only the initial speed is different before someone actually listens? All the parameters you mention can be assimilated into parameter a which has no bearing whatsoever (look at the equations above) on the speed of the car in one scenario when it has just stopped in the other. If you cannot even understand '5th grade' stuff, why are you even arguing among grown-ups? And, with all due respect, with your attitude, you shouldn't even have a licence!

I do believe that I have common sense and so does the Strassenverkehrsamt! I enjoy it when you feel physically violated by receiving a fine in such circumstances

Oh and equations matter Too bad you are not educated enough to know that
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