Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28.11.2005, 14:11
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 966
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
More parking woes

I just got a ticket for (as far as I can translate) 'renewed parking in a Blue Zone in the same street' .

However, what I actually did was originally park in the metered white spaces and then, before the time expired, move it on to a blue zone (you can park there for a period of up to two hours with one of those little time dials).

Can they do that? I know that you can't park twice in a blue zone or feed the meter but the white and blue zones are two seperate sets of parking zones, surely, even if they are on the same street?

EDit: This is in Zuerich, FYI
Gav

Last edited by Gav; 28.11.2005 at 14:12. Reason: addendum
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29.11.2005, 16:00
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 2,995
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More parking woes

Theoreticaly (as far as I understand it) even if you moved your car to a different space in a blue zone this would not constitute a violation. To move from a white space (which you paid for) to a blue space should be perfectly ok.

What was the exact phrase in German?

Anyone know what the appeal process is, and if Gav has the slightest chance of winning it? Somehow I doubt that you'll have any luck and will end up having to pay the fine, and some extra admin stuff they throw on you to discourage you and others from standing up to them in future :-)

Which reminds me of something I read in my local gemeinde paper. They are putting in some street markings and changing some traffic rules. If residents have any objections they are free to raise them with kantonal court (i.e. not them) but such objectors will have to pay all their own costs for this objection. That's democracy in action!

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29.11.2005, 17:15
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 966
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More parking woes

'Erneutes Parkieren in BZ in gliechem Strassenzug'.

I found a web page with the parking rules on it

http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/741_031/app1.html

and you could indeed be fined for reparking in a blue zone if you didn't actually drive somewhere else first (ie. if you just shifted your car down the street a bit) but unless they include all possible parking zones in the definition of reparking I can't see that there's anything wrong with moving from white to blue.

I definitely didn't repark in a blue zone and I actually moved the car in front of the warden, thinking that since it wasn't breaking any rules it should be OK. I'm wondering if it was just spite 'I'll teach him not to play around with the parking rules' ... to be honest the mentality of many of those wardens doesn't impress me.



Gav
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29.11.2005, 17:44
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 2,995
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More parking woes

Well there you go. I guess I won't try that trick! I've often moved my car around in a blue zone - after all - if you need to spend more than 2 hours in an area what are you supposed to do? I know you are supposed to take public transport.

Thanks for posting that link - I had a look. Looks like they have all the bases covered there. It seems that for every possibility of parking zone you cannot renew your time there while either staying still, or within the same section. The key to avoid this is to "das Fahrzeug vorher in den Verkehr eingefügt zu haben". So you must take it into the traffic first. Does this assume that you must mingle with other cars? Would driving around the block count if there were no other cars? I guess to be safe you'd have to drive out, find some other cars, drive around with them and come back.

There are no specific violations there which cover moving from one type of zone into another, but I bet you'd lose the case if you contested it.

So just pay the fine and let this be a lesson to you young man...

Don't worry, I'm constantly paying fines, I just look on it like tax.

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30.11.2005, 11:18
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 966
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More parking woes

Quote:
Well there you go. I guess I won't try that trick! I've often moved my car around in a blue zone - after all - if you need to spend more than 2 hours in an area what are you supposed to do? I know you are supposed to take public transport.

Thanks for posting that link - I had a look. Looks like they have all the bases covered there. It seems that for every possibility of parking zone you cannot renew your time there while either staying still, or within the same section. The key to avoid this is to "das Fahrzeug vorher in den Verkehr eingefügt zu haben". So you must take it into the traffic first. Does this assume that you must mingle with other cars? Would driving around the block count if there were no other cars? I guess to be safe you'd have to drive out, find some other cars, drive around with them and come back.

There are no specific violations there which cover moving from one type of zone into another, but I bet you'd lose the case if you contested it.

So just pay the fine and let this be a lesson to you young man...

Don't worry, I'm constantly paying fines, I just look on it like tax.

Mark
I'm going to just send them a letter asking them to clarify the rule and pointing out that I only moved from a white to a blue zone .... But of course all the warden has to say is that I parked within a blue zone twice and it's their word against mine. I wonder who the StaPo will chose to believe?

As for 'just pay it and forget it' , that's good advice in terms of keeping the blood pressure down but I can't help but think that this attitude permiates Swiss society and leads to the general dispirited attitude that I feel here - or maybe that's just me.


Gav
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30.11.2005, 11:35
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 2,995
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More parking woes

That's probably the best course of action - ask for clarification because you didn't commit the crime exactly as they described it.

I have another problem. My "local" speed camera on Seestrasse, Seefeld has been changed to one of the new laser models. I've got many speeding tickets from this thing for being 1km/h over the limit (50) over the years. Now that it is laser and pointing in BOTH directions I watch the speedo each time I drive through it.

Last night I drove through it with my eyes locked on the needle at exactly 50 and it flashed me! There was another car next to me, but it seemed to be level with me, so it can't have been doing more than 50 either.

So now I'm waiting to see what arrives in the mail, and if I get fined - I wonder what I should do? I'll probably be on another hiding to nothing...

By the way, I guess you know that the police here, like the traffic wardens in the UK, get performance related pay - the more fines they give, the better their pay. I guess this extends also to traffic wardens here too.

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 16.12.2005, 15:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More parking woes

Just something for you to think about in this case.

Many of the Traffic Wardens are not fully trained in all aspects of the law. They would even describe what was done correctly and not be aware that the ticket was issued incorrectly. I would seriously suggest an appeal although I do not know the law and parking is a local ie Gemeinde law.

The other point to note. How many times have you just popped in somewhere and left the car clearly illegal but you will be back in a minute so what the hell and there is no-one on the street. You come back in a minute and hey presto you have a CHF 40 present stuck under the wiper! There are quite a number of streets in Swiss towns and cities where the traffic warden effectively works part time from home on commission. They are paid to get you...

Another thing. Are you aware that those nasty cameras are part of your tax reduction method... In the annual budget Cantons estimate the income from the speed cameras and have this as a budget item. If the camera stops earning they take it away as there is clearly no longer a business case...

Richard
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16.12.2005, 15:53
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 2,995
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More parking woes

Quote:
Another thing. Are you aware that those nasty cameras are part of your tax reduction method... In the annual budget Cantons estimate the income from the speed cameras and have this as a budget item. If the camera stops earning they take it away as there is clearly no longer a business case...
Well now that they do both sides of the road, in both directions, with a 3km/h tolerance instead of 5km/h all those fines were I used to be booked for 4km/h over will now be 6km/h pushing my "regular" fines up from CHF40 to CHF120, as well as dramatically increasing the number of CHF40 I will now get. I don't speed, but heck, sometimes I might just drive by accident at 53 in a 50 zone. Yesterday I got done in the opposite direction and on the other side of a road to an existing camera - it had been upgraded to the new ones!

Anyway - I guess this means that all our taxes will be going down now that the amount of revenue will go up. Oh - but I thought it was all about road safety?

Sorry this thread was about parking, not "speeding"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01.10.2007, 13:40
wirelessab's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wirelessab has no particular reputation at present
Re: More parking woes

Hello,

A friend of mine told me last night that when parking in Switzerland it is against the law, if you do not have the car 'in gear' when it is parked. Can someone please advise if this is true?

Thank you very much.


Best Regards

Allan
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01.10.2007, 14:40
ElJeFe's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 494
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 431 Times in 233 Posts
ElJeFe has an excellent reputationElJeFe has an excellent reputationElJeFe has an excellent reputationElJeFe has an excellent reputation
Re: More parking woes

The Swiss looooooove to regulate traffic, it's a real cash-cow I imagine. I once parked in a blue zone, then after 2 hours I moved my car 3 blocks down to another street and parked in the blue zone there... and yup, I got fined (parking goon showed up 30 minutes after I parked) for that. I paid the fine anyhow, it's not worth the hassle arguing with them, besides I got a garage space now, so no more parking fines.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01.10.2007, 15:17
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: More parking woes

The really annoying thing is (and I saw this in action recently with new flats that were renovated). If a private parking space is created, as happened after the renovation of the flats on the corner of our road, they take away one of the blue zone spaces to compensate.

OK, all well and good in the interests of discouraging people to bring their car to the city as if there would be infinite parking spaces. However, my beef is, what if the person moving into the new flat and new parking space is from a different area? Now we have one extra car in the city which uses the shiny new private space but one less parking space for the rest of us.

Parking is a pain in the bum at the best of times but this just feels unfair.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01.10.2007, 16:43
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,521
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More parking woes

Quote:
View Post
A friend of mine told me last night that when parking in Switzerland it is against the law, if you do not have the car 'in gear' when it is parked. Can someone please advise if this is true?
The law states that a driver must "appropriately secure" the car before leaving. This includes both securing against theft and the car rolling away.

Driving schools advise to take two measures when parking on a space with decline (probably based on court rulings and general experience):
  • to apply the handbrake
  • to shift to the P position in automats and to the first gear in cars with manual transmission
  • to steer the wheels against an obstacle off the road
But on even places it should be enough to take one of the first two measures. (This is based on my own driving lessons and this German PDF file).
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01.10.2007, 17:01
Nairda's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 354
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 147 Times in 79 Posts
Nairda has made some interesting contributions
Re: More parking woes

My Mum always parks in gear 'cos that is how she was taught in Zurich.
My Granddad kept a rock in his parking place and put it under the front wheel (it was on an incline).
However, I'd agree that as long as the handbrake is on I can't see there being a problem with the law.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01.10.2007, 17:15
Middletay's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 30
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Middletay has no particular reputation at present
Re: More parking woes

My boyfriend is Swiss and when he parks my car he leaves it in gear but the hand brake off, something to do with coming from Graubunden and all the mountain parking spaces!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01.10.2007, 18:51
wirelessab's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wirelessab has no particular reputation at present
Re: More parking woes

Yes I totally agree. I must admit I was quite surprised to think that anyone could be 'breaking the law' by not having their car in-gear.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 13.08.2009, 13:09
Isambard Mews
 
Posts: n/a
Re: More parking woes

Thanks for the list. I will look up. I got a 40 CHF fine and thought I was parking totally legally. I'll now be able to find out why I got the fine.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 13.08.2009, 13:14
Isambard Mews
 
Posts: n/a
Re: More parking woes

Quote:
View Post
That's probably the best course of action - ask for clarification because you didn't commit the crime exactly as they described it.

I have another problem. My "local" speed camera on Seestrasse, Seefeld has been changed to one of the new laser models. I've got many speeding tickets from this thing for being 1km/h over the limit (50) over the years. Now that it is laser and pointing in BOTH directions I watch the speedo each time I drive through it.

Last night I drove through it with my eyes locked on the needle at exactly 50 and it flashed me! There was another car next to me, but it seemed to be level with me, so it can't have been doing more than 50 either.

So now I'm waiting to see what arrives in the mail, and if I get fined - I wonder what I should do? I'll probably be on another hiding to nothing...

By the way, I guess you know that the police here, like the traffic wardens in the UK, get performance related pay - the more fines they give, the better their pay. I guess this extends also to traffic wardens here too.

Mark
I now try to drive 10kph below the speed limit to avoid surprised. i don't know if people have legs of steel, but it's impossible to maintain a constant speed exactly, esp. if the road is hilly.

i'm trying to avoid driving while staring constantly at the speed meter as this is dangerous, but having been caught for going 2kph over the limit on a motorway, i'd rather err on the side of caution.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 13.08.2009, 13:29
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,074
Groaned at 782 Times in 611 Posts
Thanked 27,867 Times in 11,251 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: More parking woes

Quote:
View Post
The law states that a driver must "appropriately secure" the car before leaving. This includes both securing against theft and the car rolling away.

Driving schools advise to take two measures when parking on a space with decline (probably based on court rulings and general experience):
  • to apply the handbrake
  • to shift to the P position in automats and to the first gear in cars with manual transmission
  • to steer the wheels against an obstacle off the road
But on even places it should be enough to take one of the first two measures. (This is based on my own driving lessons and this German PDF file).

And the good reason for putting the car in gear as well as applying the hand-brake, when parking on a hill is that brake discs get very hot when driving in a hilly place and braking downhill.
Being metal, they expand.
Once the car is parked, they cool down and contract, and the pads are no longer hard against them.
The result is that the car rolls down the hill...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 13.08.2009, 14:06
Isambard Mews
 
Posts: n/a
Re: More parking woes

OK, the reason was: "Parkieren ausserhalb von Parkfeldern oder einem deutlich gekennzeichneten Belag (Art. 79 Abs. 1 und 1bis SSV)"

But I'm confused by this. To me, this means that I crossed over a parking line or marked space, whereas there was no such parking space. Anyone know what this is for?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 15.11.2013, 15:23
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: zurich
Posts: 21
Groaned at 7 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
pavlik1 has become a little unpopularpavlik1 has become a little unpopular
Re: More parking woes

can someone point me to a place with the Swiss traffic law in English. There was a book but I can not find it anymore
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0