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Old 16.08.2012, 22:38
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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This excuse 'having to watch my speedo' is getting worn out. If a driver can't drive at a practised, normal speed (40/50/60) then he/she needs to take a basic driving course.
Some might argue the self righteous line is getting worn out. I have been driving since I was 16. Motorbikes, camper homes, army trucks full of high explosive , big bent eights, jap fours, driven millions of kilometers, worked as a courier, LHD, RHD you name it so don't come the raw prawn with self righteousness.

If you want to dawdle around at 40kms eyes fixed on your speedo then knock yourself out. You can even have a man walking along with a red flag if you like. I don't see why we should all be reduced to such absurdity.

The point of the OP is that he was sitting in traffic and was fined the ludicrous sum of 500CHF for a trivial incident. He has not broken the speed barrier.

In regard to courses I have done Australian Army ECN 109, the motorbike Stay Upright courses and extra-curricular rally bashing etc.
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  #62  
Old 16.08.2012, 22:42
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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Some might argue the self righteous line is getting worn out.
It's worse than that. When they take this stance, they are implying they have *never* broken the limit themselves. Not even by 1kph. Which is cobblers, and just a tad hypocritical.
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Old 16.08.2012, 22:55
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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I was with you until residential. And then you blew it at "non main".

In your world I would pick up 2-3 speeding tickets *every trip*. And that's even by leaving the car at home, and just cycling.

Edit: I see Ace1 has the same machiavellian streak as me. I still can't get my favourite 50 ones to fire and I'm getting fitter by the day!

But there would be something desperately wrong with the picture if even cyclists were worrying about collecting a stack of tickets.
The reason for 'non-main' is because I don't think it's reasonable to have to drop from 70 to 30 while going through the only road in a village. I do think it's reasonable that all 'side' roads in a town are 30.

Of course, I don't think this should be applied to bicycles (and 30km/h is not a bad clip anyway) because the 'm' is so low in the 1/2mv^2 equation.
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Old 16.08.2012, 22:58
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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This excuse 'having to watch my speedo' is getting worn out. If a driver can't drive at a practised, normal speed (40/50/60) then he/she needs to take a basic driving course.
watching the road is safer than watching the speedo...

Sometimes people can be over the speed limit and still be safe...

And other times people can be well under the speed limit and dangerous...

Why is 130 km/h considered safe in France but only 120 km/h is considered safe in Swiss on the same type of road?

Why is any speed you like ok in Germany on sections of the autobahn?

A good driver will stop from 50km/h quicker than a bad driver from 30 km/h because they will have (a) anticipated and (b) have better reactions.

Speed limits are there for a reason and you should obey them...

But sometimes a good and safe driver can be over the limit (e.g. because they are watching the road and driving sensibly rather than being fixed on the speedo and unaware of what is happening ahead)
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Old 16.08.2012, 23:01
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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The reason for 'non-main' is because I don't think it's reasonable to have to drop from 70 to 30 while going through the only road in a village. I do think it's reasonable that all 'side' roads in a town are 30.

Of course, I don't think this should be applied to bicycles (and 30km/h is not a bad clip anyway) because the 'm' is so low in the 1/2mv^2 equation.
Yes but the 'm' of the little kid is also very small compared to the 'm' of the cyclist and cycle combined, and as discussed to death in the bike helmets for kids thread, the little 'm's are much more susceptible to injury.
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Old 16.08.2012, 23:06
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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Yes but the 'm' of the little kid is also very small compared to the 'm' of the cyclist and cycle combined, and as discussed to death in the bike helmets for kids thread, the little 'm's are much more susceptible to injury.
Indeed, it's a whole can of worms and I could easily be persuaded that 30km/h is fine for a bicycle on a tight urban street.
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Old 16.08.2012, 23:13
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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Why is 130 km/h considered safe in France but only 120 km/h is considered safe in Swiss on the same type of road?
The Swiss actually voted on that sometime in the 90s and chose 120km/h. I would have preferred 130km/h, but that's democracy.

As to to whether you should glue your eyes to the speedo rather that the road, well you should watch the road (and you'll have a feeling for the speed just from that) and glance at the speedo every so often. It's just basic driving.
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Old 16.08.2012, 23:14
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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Indeed, it's a whole can of worms and I could easily be persuaded that 30km/h is fine for a bicycle on a tight urban street.
Bicycles are not subject to any speed limits, speed limits only apply to motorised vehicles
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Old 16.08.2012, 23:21
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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Bicycles are not subject to any speed limits, speed limits only apply to motorised vehicles
And here is the answer to the whole thread and the OP's conundrum - if he gets a bike he do can whatever speed he wants... Isn't Switzerland a great place?
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Old 16.08.2012, 23:37
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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This excuse 'having to watch my speedo' is getting worn out.
It's not an excuse, it's a fact. A speed limit should be set to match the layout and the design of the road (width, radii, visibility, gradient, etc.). If it isn't (and unfortunately that's often the case in Switzerland) you have to pay much more attention to the speedo as when the limit fits the road and feels 'natural'.

On many roads in Switzerland I have to pay quite a bit of attention to the speedo to stay below 80 kph whereas in Germany or Austria I mostly end up in the 90-100 kph range without much effort.

Last edited by Mark75; 16.08.2012 at 23:53.
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Old 16.08.2012, 23:48
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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Some might argue the self righteous line is getting worn out. I have been driving since I was 16. Motorbikes, camper homes, army trucks full of high explosive , big bent eights, jap fours, driven millions of kilometers, worked as a courier, LHD, RHD you name it so don't come the raw prawn with self righteousness.
With all due respect, driving for a long time makes you no more a great driver then painting houses for a lifetime makes you an artist.
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Old 16.08.2012, 23:51
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Re: Speeding Ticket

I feel that it is actually quite easy to go +/- 10% or +/- 5km/h of the speed limit, especially considering going up/downhill.
On 50km/h limit, going 55km would already set you CHF40 poorer.
As someone pointed out above, it's safer to keep your eyes on the road than keep glancing at the speedo.
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  #73  
Old 16.08.2012, 23:54
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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It's not an excuse, it's a fact. A speed limit should be set to match the layout and the design of the road (width, radii, visibility, etc.). If it isn't (and unfortunately that's often the case in Switzerland) you have to pay much more attention to the speedo as when the limit fits the road and feels 'natural'.
Here I am again; I keep saying 'oh, the thread is finished' or 'I'll not post here anymore' but I keep on coming back...

It sucks to be driving now, ok? In a few years, cars will be fully automated and we won't even bother with this trivia. (Hopefully oldtimers will still be allowed, though).

For now, if you want the sensation of speed:

1. Head into Germany (even the Nürburgring)

2. Play a video game

3. Get a bicycle
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Old 17.08.2012, 00:04
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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In a few years, cars will be fully automated and we won't even bother with this trivia.
At least I could read or work then when dawdling along at 80 kph on a Swiss road that could be driven safely at 120 kph.
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Old 17.08.2012, 00:12
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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With all due respect, driving for a long time makes you no more a great driver then painting houses for a lifetime makes you an artist.
Very fair point. I wasn't saying I am a great driver but with that many miles under my belt in those conditions, with that variety of vehicles, I suggest I must be doing something right not to have been collected by Mr Oblivious driving his Volvo at 10% under the sped limit because he doesn't realize his speedo is inaccurate.
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Old 17.08.2012, 00:14
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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At least I could read or work then when dawdling along at 80 kph on a Swiss road that could be driven safely at 120 kph.
Exactly. I spent a few years commuting between Basel and Zurich in the 90s (don't even ask the sort of crazy speeds I was doing, but let's just say I was lucky to only get a month's ban one time for doing over 160km/h in Solothurn).

Even though I love driving, many's the time I wished I could just spark up a fatty, sit back and let the car take me home.
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Old 17.08.2012, 09:16
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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TVR, UK plates - and you wonder why you were followed for 10 kliks.
Many motorists here don't realise how rigidly limits are enforced here. I have had multiple fines for going just 1km over... This in a tiny car. My current daily driver now has a 3 litre smaller engine than the first car I got over here. Coming from the UK, you can't drive here long term without a major adjustment mentally, or failing that a ban to wake you up.

To be able to enjoy driving anywhere near the car's limit in Switzerland, you simply need to get a smaller engine. I have done that and I really get more pleasure. I used to have a Griffith in the UK but my advice would be to bring over a Cerbie after owning it for a year, as a personal import. While you can't use the Cerbie's top end in Blighty, you can next door in Germany on the Autobahns and race tracks. You can also have multiple cars on one plate over here, and give back the plates when you are on holiday or back in the UK to cut costs further.
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Old 17.08.2012, 09:25
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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Many motorists here don't realise how rigidly limits are enforced here. I have had multiple fines for going just 1km over... This in a tiny car. My current daily driver now has a 3 litre smaller engine than the first car I got over here. Coming from the UK, you can't drive here long term without a major adjustment mentally, or failing that a ban to wake you up.

To be able to enjoy driving anywhere near the car's limit in Switzerland, you simply need to get a smaller engine. I have done that and I really get more pleasure. I used to have a Griffith in the UK but my advice would be to bring over a Cerbie after owning it for a year, as a personal import. While you can't use the Cerbie's top end in Blighty, you can next door in Germany on the Autobahns and race tracks. You can also have multiple cars on one plate over here, and give back the plates when you are on holiday or back in the UK to cut costs further.
Speed limits are enforced equally rigidly in the UK . You speed there, you get points and a fine (or a ban if it's bad enough).

Since I've been in Switzerland I have owned a car with a 2 litre engine and now I have a car with a much larger engine. In 12 years I've never had a speeding fine. I guess it's all about control of your vehicle.

I like the large engine because it's more comfortable on the long journeys I frequently make; I didn't buy it so I could drive like a nutter and constantly "test the car's limits".
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Old 17.08.2012, 09:30
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Re: Speeding Ticket

Somewhat on the same subject:

Just yesterday I was driving in a 20kmh zone. As my tempomat is only working above 30, I set it to 30 so that I don't have to focus on the spedometer. Then there was one of those signs that measure your speed and was blinking since I was doing 28!!!

The effect of this: I drove on w/o tempomat and kept my eyes at least 1/3 of the time on the spedometer.

Was I less likely to cause an accident driving at 20 and 1/3 of the time NOT looking at the road than at 28 but focusing on the road? I DON'T THINK SO!

Last edited by EPMike; 17.08.2012 at 09:32. Reason: typos
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Old 17.08.2012, 09:34
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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Somewhat on the same subject:

Just yesterday I was driving in a 20kmh zone. As my tempomat is only working above 30, I set it to 30 so that I don't have to focus on the spedometer. Then there was one of those signs that measure your speed and was blinking since I was doing 28!!!

The effect of this: I drive on w/o tempomat and kept my eyes at least 1/3 of the time on the spedometer.

Was I less likely to cause an accident driving at 20 and 1/3 of the time NOT looking at the road than at 28 but focusing on the road? I DON?T THINK SO!
Don't know where you did your driving test but I was taught that your eyes should be constantly moving between your surroundings outside your car, the mirrors and the speedo. It's kept me and my car in one piece since I passed my test all those years ago.

(Have to smile that there are a million jokes about women drivers when there are all these confessions on here from chaps stating they are having trouble with basic roadcraft )
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