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Old 16.08.2012, 14:57
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Speeding Ticket

Yesterday I got pulled over in my English registered car by the police in Boniswil.

They asked for my driving licence, passport and car documents (which I actually didn't have with me). After a while, I questioned what I'd been pulled for and they told me a radar had caught me speeding in Lenzburg (10km away).

I argued the toss as I had remained in the flow of traffic the entire while.

They told me they had me on radar doing 69km/h in a 50km/h zone and that I would have to pay CHF500. They would not accept a credit card and demanded cash. As I doubted hitting such speeds I refused to pay without proof so, via a bank, I followed them back the 10km to Lenzburg, ironically hitting speeds well over the limit.

There, on a hill, I was taken to a man with a radar hiding in the bushes of a private house. He showed me a photo of me (amongst hundreds of other cars) doing 69km/h in the flow of traffic.

Presumably entrapment laws (that they have in the UK, France and Holland) are not over here yet.

Whilst I acknowledge I may have hit 69km/h for a brief period - my car literally can change from 50km/h to 70km/h in milliseconds (and with a mph speedo it's not unusual to briefly do so) - I'm confident that I had not been driving at this speed for any considerable distance in a 50km/h zone and would have corrected it.

What is the law in Switzerland regarding proving speeding? What distance do they have to record you over?

Back at the police station, they took ALL my details (mother's maiden name, occupation, phone numbers, car details, and even relationship status - apparently "Happy" is not on their drop down menubox). I guess my UK car is now on their system so I would have lost all "immunity" from speed cameras :-(

They also demanded a written statement explaining why I was speeding. "I was in the flow of traffic and can not remember hitting such speeds" was apparently acceptable and they told me the rest of the cars would all be getting letters in the post as they are Swiss, yet will be charged CHF250 instead of CHF500 as there is less paperwork as they are in the system already.

Does this mean if I get caught again, I can ask for a cheaper fine as they now also have me in the system, together with my relationship status and mother's maiden name.

The police were really nice throughout, even telling me that if I had been 1km/h slower I probably would not have been stopped and, if I had, the fine would have only been CHF250. In saying that, if I'd known I'd been flashed I would have probably changed roads. I was surprised they actually stopped me some 10km away. They even agreed that keeping your documents in the car is a risk as thieves stealing your car, also would have the correct documents to make the car their's. Not actually having the documents was never an issue fortunately.

The thing that makes me most angry is that I don't normally speed on the roads and I'm confident I only touched that speed for a brief moment in time. Do they not have to record you over a longer stretch?
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:04
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Re: Speeding Ticket

If you go over the speed limit it dont matter if its 1 second or 1 minute, you were speeding - they have the proof - PAY UP
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:21
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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The thing that makes me most angry is that I don't normally speed on the roads and I'm confident I only touched that speed for a brief moment in time. Do they not have to record you over a longer stretch?
You're talking about a radar gun, not average speed cameras, which are a different deal entirely and will capture your plate at a few points along a stretch of road and then determine your speed by working out the time difference as you pass each point.

A gun can only take a sample speed as it hits you at a single point in time.
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:22
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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If you go over the speed limit it dont matter if its 1 second or 1 minute, you were speeding - they have the proof - PAY UP
I've paid up and I agree I was speeding. That was not the question, but thanks for your informed reply.
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:22
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Re: Speeding Ticket

And we have another "i was caught while speeding and it is everyone else's fault but definitely not mine"-thread
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:36
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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I've paid up and I agree I was speeding. That was not the question, but thanks for your informed reply.
Such a lot of text it was easy to miss, but I presume the only question was the last sentence
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Do they not have to record you over a longer stretch?
No. They don't. Nor do they in the UK.
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:37
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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The thing that makes me most angry is that I don't normally speed on the roads and I'm confident I only touched that speed for a brief moment in time. Do they not have to record you over a longer stretch?
Doesn't it work the same way in the UK, they use speed guns there too I thought?
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:38
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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And we have another "i was caught while speeding and it is everyone else's fault but definitely not mine"-thread
I don't think that's what the OP is after tbh... He's actually saying that he admitted driving too fast and is now questioning the methods used which I think is fair enough.

At the end of the day, the authorties have tested and approved the tools Police work with so I guess there is no way it can be contended.

What puzzles me is that the police was saying: Had you gone 1km/h slower (i.e. 68 km/h) you most likely wouldn't have been fined, but in a 50 km zone that is still way too fast IMHO (69 km/h is 27.5% above limit, 68 km/h is 26.5% above limit)...
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:44
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Re: Speeding Ticket

The more interesting problem you might have is that if you arrived here in Nov 2010 (based on your forum join date) then they may start asking questions as to why is the car still registered in the UK, do you have a Swiss driving license yet??

All of these things may suddenly make the 500CHF speeding fine look small ....
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:45
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Re: Speeding Ticket

I've been fined for doing less than 69 in a 50 limit. Perhaps they just meant you'd have fallen into a lower fine category. From memory, it's 40, 120 then 250 CHFs. You can have as many 120s and 40s as you like. 250s are recorded against you, and if you do it again it's a steeper fine, magistrates etc.

With a radar gun, it's always momentary speed. Could have been worse though - you could have been doing the legal speed and got done for holding up the traffic.
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:47
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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They asked for my driving licence, passport and car documents (which I actually didn't have with me)
Strictly speaking that should be another CHF 20 or 40 (I forget which). It is a legal requirement here and in most European countries.

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Presumably entrapment laws (that they have in the UK, France and Holland) are not over here yet.
How is this possibly entrapment? You were speeding of your own free will. No-one forced you. I see no difference to the UK in this.

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Do they not have to record you over a longer stretch
As Ace1 says not here, not in the UK. And not anywhere else afaik.

You were speeding and you got caught. Pay up and learn
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:50
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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... car literally can change from 50km/h to 70km/h in milliseconds...
Some car. Must rip your fillings out doing that...

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...I was surprised they actually stopped me some 10km away...
This is common.

On the A3 in the direction of Chur near Zizers there is a rest area where a radar machine is often set up. One Saturday morning some 20km and three exits later the police had closed a lane of the autobahn and were waving in about half the cars. They must have made a fortune. I wasn't stopped as fortunately my car takes a little longer to get from 50 to 70km/h and even to 120km/h...
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:51
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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my car literally can change from 50km/h to 70km/h in milliseconds (and with a mph speedo it's not unusual to briefly do so)
What do you drive, a space ship?!
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:51
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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What puzzles me is that the police was saying: Had you gone 1km/h slower (i.e. 68 km/h) you most likely wouldn't have been fined, but in a 50 km zone that is still way too fast IMHO (69 km/h is 27.5% above limit, 68 km/h is 26.5% above limit)...
I guess the 69kmh is before deducting the speed gun inaccuracy (which is in reality a gift to the speeder. If it was a laser based system then measured =69 kmh less 4kmh inaccuracy would be 65kmh ofr fining purposes. 64kmh would be in the next lower bracket. Although I thought laser accuracy was 2 or 3kmh and radar 5....
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:55
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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I've been fined for doing less than 69 in a 50 limit. Perhaps they just meant you'd have fallen into a lower fine category. From memory, it's 40, 120 then 250 CHFs. You can have as many 120s and 40s as you like. 250s are recorded against you, and if you do it again it's a steeper fine, magistrates etc.

With a radar gun, it's always momentary speed. Could have been worse though - you could have been doing the legal speed and got done for holding up the traffic.
My boss's wife had a number of CHF 40 fines (5 or 6?) and wound up with a month's ban as a repeat offender. Maybe they take the frequency into account so if you get one a year it doesn't matter but she was new in Switzerland and hadn't got a lead foot under control and picked up a flurry of speeding fines in her first 3 months...
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Old 16.08.2012, 16:05
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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I don't think that's what the OP is after tbh... He's actually saying that he admitted driving too fast and is now questioning the methods used which I think is fair enough.

At the end of the day, the authorties have tested and approved the tools Police work with so I guess there is no way it can be contended.

What puzzles me is that the police was saying: Had you gone 1km/h slower (i.e. 68 km/h) you most likely wouldn't have been fined, but in a 50 km zone that is still way too fast IMHO (69 km/h is 27.5% above limit, 68 km/h is 26.5% above limit)...
Cheers mate.

Yes, I agree I was speeding and I know that speeding can kill. I have no problems with where the camera was placed either (although bit sneaky hiding under bushes). I normally drive ON the speed limit however, unlike some it would seem, live in the real world and was driving within the long flow of traffic - those who know the Lenzburg - Luzern road will be familiar with how busy it is.

My car can fluctuate around 20km/h with barely a movement of the foot so I don't doubt I could have briefly hit that speed, especially whilst in the flow of traffic, which didn't seem too fast.

They explained you get a 3km/h tolerance and then the next 15km/h would be a CHF250 fine in the post for a Swiss car or would more than likely be ignored for a foreign car. I was 1km/h over this limit. I fully understand I was not 1km/h over the speed limit, but 16km/h over - unless of course you're 100% sure the speed camera is exact, in which case I was 19km/h over.

In the UK, they have to show you were driving at that speed over a longer distance (why GATSO speed cameras have white lines painted on the road) and UK radar guns normally take two photos or record video. I was just wondering what it would be in Switzerland as I'm very confident I was not driving anywhere near that speed for more than a few seconds.
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Old 16.08.2012, 16:06
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Re: Speeding Ticket

It really doesn't matter why you were speeding.

I got pulled over once for 59 in a 50 zone, I overtook a farmer in his tractor who was doing maybe 30, and sped up to an earth-shattering 9km/h over the limit while doing so.

Just so happened the police had a radar gun down the road & pinged me at the exact moment I passed him. Didn't matter that I slowed down to 50 again once i'd passed, rules are rules...

Come to think of it, i reckon the farmer was on the police payroll and it was a setup. Now that's entrapment!
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Old 16.08.2012, 16:06
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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The more interesting problem you might have is that if you arrived here in Nov 2010 (based on your forum join date) then they may start asking questions as to why is the car still registered in the UK, do you have a Swiss driving license yet??

All of these things may suddenly make the 500CHF speeding fine look small ....
It's a holiday home - I only bring the car over in the summer
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Old 16.08.2012, 16:13
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Re: Speeding Ticket

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What do you drive, a space ship?!
TVR


I've got a Swiss farmer friend who was fined CHF100 for not indicating on a roundabout in a small village at 4:30am in the morning with nobody around, except for the copper who was parked up with his lights off.

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Old 16.08.2012, 16:35
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Re: Speeding Ticket

The way I see it, you were still lucky. Had you hit 74 on your speedo your license would have been revoked for 1 month. This way you will only get reprimanded.

You will still be fined several hundred francs (sorry).

If in the next two years they catch you with anything more than 65 (68 indicated) in a zone 50, your license will be revoked for 1 month or more.

That is, if foreigners get treated the same way as the Swiss, which is kind of what I assume.

I am sorry for you because I understand your situation. Our traffic laws really suck. Which makes people drive even worse and it is sometimes hard to bear.
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