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View Poll Results: Which car is better
BMW X3 2d 17 62.96%
Jaguar XF 2.2d 10 37.04%
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  #21  
Old 08.11.2012, 16:54
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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  #22  
Old 08.11.2012, 17:17
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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Which of the following 2 cars would you reccomend
(I know they are totally different class, and would be based on my needs etc etc but humour me)
1. BMW X3 2.0d M Package ( fully loaded)
2. Jaguar XF 2.2d


A brief analysis by me so far

BMW X3 (F25 model)
+ 4 wheel drive
+ spacious
+ Tried and tested German enginering.
+ lower maintenance costs ( service 1 in 2 years)
+ Higher resale value
- Quite costly (atleast 10k higher than Jag, both being imported)
- less fuel efficient than JAG (stated 6 l/ 100km , practially get 8 to 9 )
- Accessorizing the basic model can shoot up the price

JAG XF 2.2
+ A real head turner
+ imported offers relatively cheaper than BMW
+ Quite fuel Efficient (
- no clue on resale value
- Annual maintenance required
+ Basic model is quite well accessorized
- relatively new entry in the market, not found any critical reviews of users yet , so not sure if it has been tested / proven
All comes down on your personal criteria as these are two very different segments that have very different strengths to them.
Given the mentions of diesel, resale and maintenance, you seem to be very value oriented, in which case depreciation is the #1 thing to watch. In that case, you go for the X3, or better still a Q5 and call it a day. A piece of data: Jaguar has sold 297 XFs year to date in Switzerland, BMW 2'660 X3s. Gives you an idea of the market appeal and therefore resale value. If you are going to drive the car to the ground and put 200kkm on it before you sell, you don't care. If you change cars every 3 years, you do.

If you are a sucker for nicely finished interiors and quality materials, you don't go for the X3, there's no such thing as "German engineering" in my view, all german brands have a very different value prop.

If you are a sucker for handling and your travels take you through winding roads and alpine passes, go with the Jag. The X3 handles well for its class, but feels top heavy in these conditions.

Above all, if you care for refinement and experience for money, reconsider the diesel. They keep improving, but they are no match for turbo/supercharged petrols. Not as economical, but far more enjoyable if you care. Diesel sales keep climbing in Switzerland, nearly 40% of registrations in October 2012, and it's surprising how the general public has little taste for engine delivery and refinement. Let alone the fine particules and environmental aspect, but this seems off topic.

Btw, the XF to buy is going to be launched next year: XF Sportbake V6 3.0 Supercharged AWD. This should deliver Audi S4 Avant experience with a touch of originality.
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  #23  
Old 08.11.2012, 17:30
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

We get an X3 towards the end of January. The only real benefit I see and want above the car we currently have is the AWD part. Company car, couldn't get an Audi all road or Q5 unfortunately. Wouldn't want the Jag for a one car family.

I didn't realize I would require a sex op to go with. Will order for Feb.

The first X3`s at least in the US had no boot/ trunk space at all. The new one is ok. On par with the 3 series station wagon.
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Old 08.11.2012, 17:37
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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All comes down on your personal criteria as these are two very different segments that have very different strengths to them.
Given the mentions of diesel, resale and maintenance, you seem to be very value oriented, in which case depreciation is the #1 thing to watch. In that case, you go for the X3, or better still a Q5 and call it a day. A piece of data: Jaguar has sold 297 XFs year to date in Switzerland, BMW 2'660 X3s. Gives you an idea of the market appeal and therefore resale value. If you are going to drive the car to the ground and put 200kkm on it before you sell, you don't care. If you change cars every 3 years, you do.

If you are a sucker for nicely finished interiors and quality materials, you don't go for the X3, there's no such thing as "German engineering" in my view, all german brands have a very different value prop.

If you are a sucker for handling and your travels take you through winding roads and alpine passes, go with the Jag. The X3 handles well for its class, but feels top heavy in these conditions.

Above all, if you care for refinement and experience for money, reconsider the diesel. They keep improving, but they are no match for turbo/supercharged petrols. Not as economical, but far more enjoyable if you care. Diesel sales keep climbing in Switzerland, nearly 40% of registrations in October 2012, and it's surprising how the general public has little taste for engine delivery and refinement. Let alone the fine particules and environmental aspect, but this seems off topic.

Btw, the XF to buy is going to be launched next year: XF Sportbake V6 3.0 Supercharged AWD. This should deliver Audi S4 Avant experience with a touch of originality.
Quite a few statements here with no real support... A JAG handling well on curvy roads?! Not so much, I wouldn't choose one over an X3... and with the M package on, the whole driving experience is so much better. Diesel engines not up to petrol engines? You should tell this to the guys driving petrol engine cars on the autobahn having to get out of the way as quick as possible when a 5 series or X5 M50d (381HP and 780Nm of torque) comes from behind. I do agree, the 2.0d engine from BMW is a little small when compared with supercharged petrol engines, but still... 184HP and 380Nm of torque are not easily outperformed even by larger petrol engines.
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Old 08.11.2012, 17:59
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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Not so much, I wouldn't choose one over an X3... and with the M package on, the whole driving experience is so much better. Diesel engines not up to petrol engines?
Yes, if you just look at the numbers, Diesel engines seem pretty attractive but IMHO they totally take the fun out of driving. Redline at 5000 rpm... gimme a break! Tractor sound at idle and in city traffic... no, thanks!

Besides, unless it's Euro6 spec it still pollutes quite a bit more compared to a petrol engine, e.g. up to three times more nitrogen oxide per km.
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Old 09.11.2012, 10:18
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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Yes, if you just look at the numbers, Diesel engines seem pretty attractive but IMHO they totally take the fun out of driving. Redline at 5000 rpm... gimme a break! Tractor sound at idle and in city traffic... no, thanks!

Besides, unless it's Euro6 spec it still pollutes quite a bit more compared to a petrol engine, e.g. up to three times more nitrogen oxide per km.
I am curious how many of the EFs that provide advice regarding cars have actually driven these cars? When I mentioned diesel engines, I spoke from my own experience and not from numbers from a website... my car, F10 530d xDrive, has better performance from 80-120k/h than an M3. Why? It is not because the red line in my car is at 5k rpm and the M3 at 8.75k rpm; it is because of the torque my car has compared with any petrol engine (258HP for 530d vs. 420HP for M3... impressive, but not enough. The torque though... that's a different story: 560NM for 530d vs. 400NM for M3. And remember, we are talking about a 3l diesel engine, 6 cyl. vs. a 4l petrol engine, V8). And torque is what matters. Now remember, I am not talking about TDI engines from Audi/VW; they are very reliable, very low consumption engines, but they are not an indication of what a highly performant, diesel engine is. If you talk about performance, look at the 3l diesel engines from BMW. Sound like a tractor? not if it is a six cylinder, in line, engine... if you're curious, we can always take a road trip to Munchen, and back. And pollution? We are talking about the new diesel engines, I wasn't at any point referencing the diesel engines from 5-10 years ago...
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Old 10.11.2012, 21:53
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

Currently X3 is leading the popularity vote by more that 1.5 times the JAG.

Looks like I should be going this way
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  #28  
Old 10.11.2012, 22:03
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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Currently X3 is leading the popularity vote by more that 1.5 times the JAG.

Looks like I should be going this way
Does the opinion of 14 anonymous EF users really influence your choice?
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  #29  
Old 12.11.2012, 04:41
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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Does the opinion of 14 anonymous EF users really influence your choice?
Not really, but some of the posts were quite insightful and informative.
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  #30  
Old 12.11.2012, 08:34
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

You could also consider importing this :



Made by the Indian owners of Jaguar.

Last edited by sva; 12.11.2012 at 08:35. Reason: url mistake
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  #31  
Old 12.11.2012, 09:24
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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I am curious how many of the EFs that provide advice regarding cars have actually driven these cars? When I mentioned diesel engines, I spoke from my own experience and not from numbers from a website... my car, F10 530d xDrive, has better performance from 80-120k/h than an M3. Why? It is not because the red line in my car is at 5k rpm and the M3 at 8.75k rpm; it is because of the torque my car has compared with any petrol engine (258HP for 530d vs. 420HP for M3... impressive, but not enough. The torque though... that's a different story: 560NM for 530d vs. 400NM for M3. And remember, we are talking about a 3l diesel engine, 6 cyl. vs. a 4l petrol engine, V8). And torque is what matters. Now remember, I am not talking about TDI engines from Audi/VW; they are very reliable, very low consumption engines, but they are not an indication of what a highly performant, diesel engine is. If you talk about performance, look at the 3l diesel engines from BMW. Sound like a tractor? not if it is a six cylinder, in line, engine... if you're curious, we can always take a road trip to Munchen, and back. And pollution? We are talking about the new diesel engines, I wasn't at any point referencing the diesel engines from 5-10 years ago...
I quite agree. I took a rental 335d M Sport deep into Germany last summer and it was a superb autobahn "shrinker" - many large petrol engine cars had to move over as they could not compete with the torque. It just picks up so fast after e.g. roadworks or other speed reducing interference and the whole things was so relaxing and effortless - a wonderful car. Also pretty handy on the twisty bits on the minor roads. It never sounded or felt like a taxi and the fuel comsumption was remarkable for the progress we made.
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  #32  
Old 12.11.2012, 09:33
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

Can somebody help me out here as I still don't have a clue why would anyone take an X3 over a 3-er Touring X-Drive?

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Which of the following 2 cars would you reccomend
(I know they are totally different class, and would be based on my needs etc etc but humour me)
1. BMW X3 2.0d M Package ( fully loaded)
2. Jaguar XF 2.2d


A brief analysis by me so far

BMW X3 (F25 model)
+ 4 wheel drive
+ spacious
+ Tried and tested German enginering.
+ lower maintenance costs ( service 1 in 2 years)
+ Higher resale value
- Quite costly (atleast 10k higher than Jag, both being imported)
- less fuel efficient than JAG (stated 6 l/ 100km , practially get 8 to 9 )
- Accessorizing the basic model can shoot up the price

JAG XF 2.2
+ A real head turner
+ imported offers relatively cheaper than BMW
+ Quite fuel Efficient (
- no clue on resale value
- Annual maintenance required
+ Basic model is quite well accessorized
- relatively new entry in the market, not found any critical reviews of users yet , so not sure if it has been tested / proven
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  #33  
Old 12.11.2012, 12:28
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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Quite a few statements here with no real support... A JAG handling well on curvy roads?! Not so much, I wouldn't choose one over an X3... and with the M package on, the whole driving experience is so much better. Diesel engines not up to petrol engines? You should tell this to the guys driving petrol engine cars on the autobahn having to get out of the way as quick as possible when a 5 series or X5 M50d (381HP and 780Nm of torque) comes from behind. I do agree, the 2.0d engine from BMW is a little small when compared with supercharged petrol engines, but still... 184HP and 380Nm of torque are not easily outperformed even by larger petrol engines.
Brands evolve, and Jags of late are not necessarily the junk they used to be. You have to judge the product for what it is, not what it might have been once up on a time.
With regards to diesels, I wrote specifically about refinement and driving experience. Yes, large diesels are torque monsters and can smoke very powerful cars on 120-200kph stretches. Does not make them enjoyable to drive or refined. Performance is not everything, especially nowadays and for most people, it's the delivery of performance that makes a huge difference. And in that department, I am sorry to say that diesels, even with good auto/dual clutch gearboxes, are not there. Torque band is just too narrow.
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  #34  
Old 12.11.2012, 12:34
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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I am curious how many of the EFs that provide advice regarding cars have actually driven these cars? When I mentioned diesel engines, I spoke from my own experience and not from numbers from a website... my car, F10 530d xDrive, has better performance from 80-120k/h than an M3. Why? It is not because the red line in my car is at 5k rpm and the M3 at 8.75k rpm; it is because of the torque my car has compared with any petrol engine (258HP for 530d vs. 420HP for M3... impressive, but not enough. The torque though... that's a different story: 560NM for 530d vs. 400NM for M3. And remember, we are talking about a 3l diesel engine, 6 cyl. vs. a 4l petrol engine, V8). And torque is what matters. Now remember, I am not talking about TDI engines from Audi/VW; they are very reliable, very low consumption engines, but they are not an indication of what a highly performant, diesel engine is. If you talk about performance, look at the 3l diesel engines from BMW. Sound like a tractor? not if it is a six cylinder, in line, engine... if you're curious, we can always take a road trip to Munchen, and back. And pollution? We are talking about the new diesel engines, I wasn't at any point referencing the diesel engines from 5-10 years ago...
Not to brag, but we own five (one V12, one V8, one V6 supercharged, one boxer 6 for track use (guess what it is) and a hybrid) and drive and write about several dozens different models a year, ranging from mundane automobiles to supercars.
This is not about bashing diesels, they are good at certain things, but you can't argue they are good at everything. They represent a significant compromise that has to be accepted in full knowledge. It's fuel economy at the expense of a narrow torque band, coarse delivery and a nasty exhaust note (not even going into what comes out of the tailpipes).
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Old 12.11.2012, 12:36
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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Can somebody help me out here as I still don't have a clue why would anyone take an X3 over a 3-er Touring X-Drive?
I can see two objective reasons:
1) some people enjoy the higher driving position, it makes them feel more secure
2) the new 3-series F30 is not nice to look at
I think the more compelling question is why you would choose a BMW over an Audi.
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  #36  
Old 12.11.2012, 14:16
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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I can see two objective reasons:
1) some people enjoy the higher driving position, it makes them feel more secure
2) the new 3-series F30 is not nice to look at
Not sure I agree on the looks part , but the X3 has way more space than any 3 series touring model. Comparing an X3 with a 5 series touring might be more fair

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I think the more compelling question is why you would choose a BMW over an Audi.
That is actually a wonderful question and honestly not an easy one to answer. both models (X3 & Q5) are amazing and is quite a hard choice. I guess it really just comes down to instinct and cost.
Which ever work out cheaper would be the one to go (with the same accessories etc. included)
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Old 12.11.2012, 14:17
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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I think the more compelling question is why you would choose a BMW over an Audi.
Maybe reliability? (Saying that as an Audi owner)
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Old 12.11.2012, 22:57
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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Maybe reliability? (Saying that as an Audi owner)
Do you have bad experiences to share ?
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Old 12.11.2012, 23:52
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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Not sure I agree on the looks part , but the X3 has way more space than any 3 series touring model. Comparing an X3 with a 5 series touring might be more fair


That is actually a wonderful question and honestly not an easy one to answer. both models (X3 & Q5) are amazing and is quite a hard choice. I guess it really just comes down to instinct and cost.
Which ever work out cheaper would be the one to go (with the same accessories etc. included)
The 3 series wagon has not a lot of room for passengers in the back. The 5 series wagon then has the room but seems quite long and the butt can stick out of parking spaces.

X3 over Q5 simple. Company car we are allowed an X3 and not allowed a Q5 (at my wife`s level). I assume the difference is the company has a better deal with BMW???

A friend with a new audi Q5 has the engine burning oil. But Audi won't do anything about it because its not enough oil for them to consider it an issue. Its quite distressing for him but he's not making any headway with them.

Last edited by BrianJW; 12.11.2012 at 23:55. Reason: added audi oil burning.
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Old 13.11.2012, 08:36
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Re: Which car would you buy between X3 and XF 2.2

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A friend with a new audi Q5 has the engine burning oil. But Audi won't do anything about it because its not enough oil for them to consider it an issue. Its quite distressing for him but he's not making any headway with them.
Do you know which engine version it is ? 2.0 TFSI ? 2.0 TDI ?
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