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Old 28.03.2009, 09:08
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

Tesla Model S is announced. You can make a EURO 4,000 deposit now, which is fully refundable, less a EURO 40 admin fee. If you own a Tesla Roadster, you get a Euro 8,000 rebate.

I think it's a good looking car.
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  #22  
Old 28.03.2009, 09:45
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Tesla Model S is announced. You can make a EURO 4,000 deposit now, which is fully refundable, less a EURO 40 admin fee. If you own a Tesla Roadster, you get a Euro 8,000 rebate.

I think it's a good looking car.
Nice.

Wonder if it'll be available in CH at any point.
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  #23  
Old 28.03.2009, 11:55
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Nice.

Wonder if it'll be available in CH at any point.
The blurb on their site says they start delivery in 2011 . Very tempted to put down the EURO 4K deposit, as it'll only cost me EURO 40 to cancel.
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  #24  
Old 28.03.2009, 13:05
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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The blurb on their site says they start delivery in 2011 . Very tempted to put down the EURO 4K deposit, as it'll only cost me EURO 40 to cancel.
Only thing I'd be worried about is how to service the car - and possibly also how to arrange the electrical outlet so that it can be charged. Not trivial when living in an apt and parking in the blaue zone. Still, that's a minor problem.

Apart from that, nice looking car with great specs for a very reasonable price.

Last edited by Boy Wonder; 28.03.2009 at 14:20.
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Old 28.03.2009, 14:20
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

Think I'll stick to my Jeep Wrangler.
Also, the parts needed for green car ie batteries and such can't be that "green" to make can they?
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Old 28.03.2009, 14:40
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Think I'll stick to my Jeep Wrangler.
Also, the parts needed for green car ie batteries and such can't be that "green" to make can they?
Batteries could be recycled, I guess. Still, not sure batteries are the solution either - perhaps fuel cells will prove to be a better option. I'm no expert and don't really know much about the environmental footprint of these technologies. Still, there seems to be a reassuring consensus in the scientific community that petrol powered suv's don't do the environment much good, so it's probably a good idea to go look for alternatives.

And if the alternatives are pretty and have specs that put most gas guzzlers to shame, well, even better.

Of course, if you have a better idea of how to replace the petrol driven car - go ahead - make yourself heard. Don't settle for just complaining or defending the status quo, not that I think you would, mind you, it's just that some people ... well ... some people just aren't constructive at all.
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  #27  
Old 28.03.2009, 19:00
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

I was overtaken by a Tesla last week on the PCH near Dana Point. I thought it was a Lotus at first but the spooky silence as it went past made me take another look when I caught up with it at the next lights. The driver was certainly making use of its acceleration. I can imagine these things are going to be loved by pedestrians.
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  #28  
Old 28.03.2009, 19:20
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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I thought it was a Lotus at first but the spooky silence as it went past made me take another look when I caught up with it at the next lights.
I understand the design is based on the Lotus Elise.
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  #29  
Old 28.03.2009, 19:34
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Batteries could be recycled, I guess. Still, not sure batteries are the solution either - perhaps fuel cells will prove to be a better option.
For the Tesla Roadster, part of the price you pay includes replacing and recycling the battery pack. Like Ni-Cads, Li-ion aren't the sort of thing you just throw in the bin. LiFePO4 look like a better option in terms of their performance characteristics. A123 Systems appear to be getting ready to manufacture batteries for the hybrid market.

http://a123systems.textdriven.com/pr...UGUST_2008.pdf

Fuel cells are a nice idea, but I think there are still lots of problems to solve before they can be used as a power source.

Last edited by BeastOfBodmin; 28.03.2009 at 19:36. Reason: Removed repetition
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  #30  
Old 28.03.2009, 19:42
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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I was overtaken by a Tesla last week on the PCH near Dana Point. I thought it was a Lotus at first but the spooky silence as it went past made me take another look when I caught up with it at the next lights. The driver was certainly making use of its acceleration. I can imagine these things are going to be loved by pedestrians.
Yeah, those things are quiet. It could be a safety hazard. A pedestrian can cross into the street when they don't hear one coming. They really ought to mount speakers on the outside with programmable sounds; e.g., Harley, Tank, Airplane, spacecraft, etc.
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  #31  
Old 28.03.2009, 21:11
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Yeah, those things are quiet. It could be a safety hazard. A pedestrian can cross into the street when they don't hear one coming. They really ought to mount speakers on the outside with programmable sounds; e.g., Harley, Tank, Airplane, spacecraft, etc.
I can imagine a market akin to ringtones, but for electric vehicles. "Official" Ferrari <insert marque here> engine tone.
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  #32  
Old 29.03.2009, 15:24
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

The fascinating aspect of electric cars in Switzerland is that they are 43% nuclear powered...

Be quite cool to say you drive around in a vehicle that uses equal amounts of nuclear and hydro energy, with the rest being imported French energy.
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  #33  
Old 30.03.2009, 15:57
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Yeah, those things are quiet. It could be a safety hazard. A pedestrian can cross into the street when they don't hear one coming. They really ought to mount speakers on the outside with programmable sounds; e.g., Harley, Tank, Airplane, spacecraft, etc.
Pedestrians already frequently have that problem with bicycles: If they can't hear anything then they just step out onto the street in front of you without using their eyes. Maybe if there were more quiet cars around then they would learn to use their eyes as well as ears.

As mentioned in the first response to this thread, the Twike car is a simply awesome machine. It's a two-person electric car that can be even more efficient if you and your passenger also pedal, but even if you don't then it still has a 200 km range and a top speed of 85 kph.
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  #34  
Old 30.03.2009, 20:11
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Maybe if there were more quiet cars around then they would learn to use their eyes as well as ears.
Sure, maybe after the 2nd or 3rd time they get run over.
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  #35  
Old 16.05.2010, 17:10
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Tesla Model S is announced. You can make a EURO 4,000 deposit now, which is fully refundable, less a EURO 40 admin fee. If you own a Tesla Roadster, you get a Euro 8,000 rebate.

I think it's a good looking car.
Tesla are opening a showroom in Zurich, not sure exactly when but I saw the "coming soon" signs on the window yesterday (I think it was in Sankt Annagasse). With 40 customers already, Switzerland is Tesla’s top per-capita market worldwide. If they ever make a van I would be very interested!
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  #36  
Old 22.05.2010, 12:05
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Tesla are opening a showroom in Zurich, not sure exactly when but I saw the "coming soon" signs on the window yesterday (I think it was in Sankt Annagasse). With 40 customers already, Switzerland is Tesla’s top per-capita market worldwide. If they ever make a van I would be very interested!


From this morning's "Tesla Motors May Newsletter"
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On June 10th we will open our newest European showroom in downtown Zurich. Switzerland is Tesla's largest per-capita market and a strategic geographic base in the heart of Europe. The evening gala will include test drives and plenty of surprises for guests. The store will be located at Pelikanstrasse 10.
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  #37  
Old 22.05.2010, 13:12
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

Have you thought about a bycicle and public transport?

Electric cars are still too expensive to runn and to buy, or petrol is too cheap. You can put it either way you want.

If you realy want to go green, get a bycicle and avoid any batteries because they are definetely not green.
cicling is also very healthy and helps to keep the doctor away.
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  #38  
Old 21.12.2018, 07:44
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Nice.

Wonder if it'll be available in CH at any point.
Very interesting to read this thread at the end of 2018. Some interesting points mentioned way ahead of their time, like the one about the relative quiet of EVs - new EVs sold after June 2019 must have some kind of noise polluter installed (for the blind, and to some extent those with OK vision BUT who can't be bothered to see where they are going).

We had a Tesla Model S for over 4 years now, and very happy. When we leave HK, we will sell it as it is a right hand drive version due to all the cars in HK driving in the wrong side of the road.

It is not likely I will ever buy a petrol or diesel car again. The odd renting of a car isn't always available (or affordable) in electric, but prices are falling. We have rented an early Model S in CH several times for vacation, at 100 CHF/day. When you save the fuel, it is actually very competitive. Very comfortable, quiet and lots of space. Great on mountain roads, as you simply recharge the battery going downhill, rather than let engine and to some extent, brakes, waste the energy.

Those who buy an expensive petrol or diesel, especially when from new today, will most likely stand to lose a lot on it the coming years. Like it did with other technologies like computer, mobile phones and such - it will take off quite abruptly at some stage. Fossil fuel cars will plummet in value. If you need to replace your car, and can't wait for an EV, consider to buy second hand - so you will lose less money when the market crashes.

When we move to Switzerland in 2019, we will either get a Model 3, an older Model S or have no car at all (depending on where we end up living).
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  #39  
Old 21.12.2018, 08:10
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

Interesting to see the Evolution of this thread in the 11 years or so it has been up - I was 3 months into my stay in CH, just finished my probation period when this got posted!

Electric cars have come a long way in that time, but I disagree with your predictions a bit. Despite being shown to be superior in many ways, electric cars still have a long way to go to convince petrolheads that they are the way to go. In many ways, I wish the model 3 had waited and pitched itself at the 35kchf segment when it arrived, rather than the 60k starting point though, as everyone will now continue to bang on about electric cars not being affordable.

I do agree re never owning another car though. I've had a Tesla for 4 or 5 years now and can't see myself going back to petrol. When I was in Scotland last summer I thought I'd treat myself and rented a Jaguar F-Type from the airport for the weekend - it was a heartbreaking letdown, I'd always looked enviously at those, but it was pretty awful.
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Old 21.12.2018, 08:57
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Interesting to see the Evolution of this thread in the 11 years or so it has been up - I was 3 months into my stay in CH, just finished my probation period when this got posted!

Electric cars have come a long way in that time, but I disagree with your predictions a bit. Despite being shown to be superior in many ways, electric cars still have a long way to go to convince petrolheads that they are the way to go. In many ways, I wish the model 3 had waited and pitched itself at the 35kchf segment when it arrived, rather than the 60k starting point though, as everyone will now continue to bang on about electric cars not being affordable.

I do agree re never owning another car though. I've had a Tesla for 4 or 5 years now and can't see myself going back to petrol. When I was in Scotland last summer I thought I'd treat myself and rented a Jaguar F-Type from the airport for the weekend - it was a heartbreaking letdown, I'd always looked enviously at those, but it was pretty awful.
We got one of the first (non-signature) Model S in Hong Kong, September 2014. Just bought the extended warranty so that it's fully covered until September 2022. We are planning to move HK->CH in 2019.

There are Model S that have driven more than 500000 km, and battery degradation is NOT an issue when the charging level and temperature is regulated as in a Tesla. Unfortunately, some people (deliberately?) misunderstand the 8 year battery warranty to think that you have to replace the battery after 8 years. And throw it in a dump. They don't even consider the recycling which ... isn't a thing YET since ... the batteries don't fail or degrade very much.

Since we only drive around 10000 km / year, I expect the battery to outlast the car - even though the chassis is made of aluminium and will most likely last many decades.

I wish I could bring my HK Tesla to CH, but it's right hand drive AND the warranty will be void if I move it to CH. That's not even considering all the paperwork that would be required.

Still on the fence whether to buy a new Model 3, or an older Model S. Although our current Model S is 85kWh and plenty for us, getting an early 100D is tempting. Not just for the extra range, but also that you can charge faster for a longer time (so a shorter journey). And I tried a MS P100D while on a skiing vacation a year ago - the traction of such a car is unbeatable. Going up the steep roads we didn't get stuck even once, although we saw many fossil 4x4s that couldn't cope.


About the introduction price: You need to look at total cost of ownership. I know that most people don't consider that at all - they simply look at the sticker.

With a typical EV, you will pay a lot less in fuel and maintenance - so over the life of the car (compared to a cheaper ICEV), you just pay more in financing, and less in fuel/repairs. Add to that the EV will last much longer - especially if it's aluminium and the battery temperature and charging level is closely monitored and controlled (like in Tesla Model S and X)

Petrolheads or not - things are starting to move with environmental issues. We can't keep burning fossil fuels like it doesn't matter. Solar is already on the rise in CH (and elsewhere), and despite a lot of "articles" cherry picking and even falsifying information and presenting it as "fact", electric vehicles are a magnitude better than fossil fuel cars. Even if you just look at how energy becomes distance traveled, the energy used just to find, extract, transport, pump and refine fossil fuels are far greater than those use to propel an EV the same distance. Before you even turn the key to start a fossil fuel engine car, the EV has already arrived at destination - using the electricity that would otherwise have been used to get the fossil fuel into the fuel tank of the car.


It will vary by country, but since a car is typically lasting for 10 years or more, starting an investment in such a vehicle in December 2018 is going to hurt more than the usual depreciation.

In a country with mountains, the regen is a godsend. Spending all that energy going up to the pass, it's awesome to get most of it back going down on the other side. It always pained me to rev the engine and wasting all that energy going down again.
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