I actually think to the absolute contrary:
Fossil fuel cars (and motorbikes) will become a luxury, and you will have to pay a lot to drive and fill up one.
Also, if the car companies get pressured by the "greenefied" governments in the future (after Trump), the technology development and economies of scale should drive the EV prices down, and ICE up (to push them out of the average consumer hands).

On the other topic branch of whether EVs are "cleaner" to run than ICE cars, this should sort out the answer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM

I had to leave Iron Pig on Malta, poor Piggy after being turned into a Frankenbeemer, five years in a country without a MFK she would not have stood a snowball´s chance under the gimlet eye of a German TÜV inspector.
I´d love another bike but winter is saying "Nope!" also the bike I would want is out of the range of my paltry few Euros, so it looks like it has to be a can. At the moment I am looking at a 2001 Audi A3 for 750 Euros, it´s Euro 4, 160gCo2/Km and a "4" particle. What ever that all means, don´t forget the last time I owned a car was 1995.


Where was I?


Right


I once read that the most environmentally friendly car is one that is at least 10 years old and that the environmental footprint of a new car, especially an electric one is magnitudes higher that that of an old banger.

__________________
Back in Bavaria, god´s own belly button.

I'm currently in a 100D, but had a 2014 70D here for 3 years before. It was honestly completely fine range wise for going literally anywhere - into the middle of Germany or France, up the mountains here, so maybe consider that?

We would sometimes do longer trips also. Not that often, but having more range (and being able to charge faster) is very useful.

Also, if you can keep the battery away from 0% and 100%, it will last even longer - most likely beyond the life of the car itself.

I always charge to 90% and I don't think I've ever had it below 15%. In the years I had the 70D, I noticed no range reduction, but I maybe only drove 20k or so.

I'm in a similar situation to HKCH. I just sold my MS 60D in Hong Kong and will be moving back to Switzerland next month. My wife and I have decided that we'll only buy an electric car and at the moment a MS or MX are the only ones we're considering. Battery size is the big question for me, not for everyday usage since we'll install a charger in the garage, but for trips to the mountains. I'm worried that the battery will suffer massive drain if we do a ski holiday somewhere and have to park outside without access to charging. Cold weather was never an issue in HK (why people bought the cold weather package is beyond me); does it make a significant impact in Switzerland?

What happened to the video?

Your Google mojo is weak
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nsJAlrYjGz8

Thanks! So what else is new?


GM and co have been buying out to kill competition since day 1.

LA once had a trolley system. Now its limited to Disneyland.


By the way, where are all the electric cars that we have now, going to go when their batteries are dead?

They’ll get new batteries while the old ones are repurposed for other uses such as household batteries. The cars (at least a Tesla) have much less wear and tear than those with internal combustion engines.

So one day I just may have a Tesla in my hand while surfing the tube.

Haha! I meant to store massive amounts of energy for houses with their own energy production sources such as solar panels. But you probably knew that!

Batteries in EVs are generally well managed. Maybe not so for some cheap Chinese brands, but for sure, in Tesla EVs.

https://electrek.co/2018/07/17/tesla...miles-3-years/

Here is an example of a Tesla Model S that did mainly supercharging (which is tougher on the battery than slow charging). And yet it lasted almost 500000 km before they changed the battery (on warranty). So they really beat the shit out of that battery and they already saved 60000 USD on a car that cost them 80000 USD. This is comparison to an equivalent ICEV.

And even so, when some day there are enough batteries from EVs to recycle - they will be recycled. Nothing in the batteries are lost, so after recycling, they can start over in that cycle.

Just because there is a warranty of 8 years on the battery of a Tesla, doesn't mean that after 8 years, the battery is dead. Few cars make it past 500000 km anyway - so for most EVs, the batteries never have to be changed. Only reused for other purposes, or recycled into new batteries.

Now, imagine all the oil, spark plugs, belts, exhausts, catalytic converters and such, that an ICEV consumes over its lifetime. EVs don't even have that.

Sticker price might (still) be higher for en EV over an ICEV, but the total cost of ownership is already much lower. Unfortunately, most people are not sufficiently informed to see beyond sticker price. They will simple say "A 40000 CHF EV is twice as expensive as a 20000 CHF ICEV"). Which is true only the day you buy it. Over the course of the life of the car, a 40000 CHF EV will be much cheaper than a 20000 CHF ICEV.

I don't go skiing much, but from Zurich, most resorts are pretty well served regarding superchargers. I went to Obersaxen once, and Vals a few times with the 70D with no problems - check www.tesla.com/trips to see where the superchargers are. Normally, even though I didn't need it, and just to be on the safe side, I would stop in Bad Ragaz where there is a charger just off the motorway, then you can get to anywhere in Graubünden with enough charge to get back to Bad Ragaz again without any issue. Many hotels now have their own destination chargers too, so you can relax on the range anxiety.

All this planning about where to stop and charge and if theirs enough juice to get back again to a particular place for charging must kill all spontaneity and to a lesser extent imagination: how boring !

This is honestly the response of someone who has never driven one. With your regular ICE car, I presume on longer travels, you plan the odd bathroom break (esp if you have kids?) or somewhere to stop for lunch etc.

Even if you don't take 30 seconds to type your route into a route planner before you leave, as soon as you get in the car and plug it into the Navigation, it will calculate a route for you with enough charge in reserve for safety, so you don't need to think about a thing, other than your destination if you don't want to. You can be as spontaneous as you like!

Why would you assume anything like that? There are petrol stations, with toilets, and cafés/restaurants pretty much everywhere, so you simply stop when the demands of tank, bladder or stomach tell you to. Planning where you will stop doesn't come into it. And personally I never stop for lunch anyway - just grab a sandwich (or take one with you) and eat while driving. Have you never done a long journey in a normal car?

I wonder whether you fully understand what 'spontaneous' means? Having some software tell you where and when you will need to stop, and being limited to doing as it says, is almost the opposite thereof.

I have driven a Tesla once !


Planning everything in advance just kills the imagination !


I want to stop when I want to and where i want to, not where Tesla decide to put a charger


If i want to pee, or have a coffee to make me pee or eat something, i want to chose where this is rather than it be imposed by where ever a charger is.

Sure, I have a fairly long history of "normal" cars to go back through...My first car, a Honda Civic 1.6l, loved it, followed by an MR2 for a few years, then a Porsche Cayman S - I had a great time with all of them and undertook plenty of longer journeys mostly from where I lived in Scotland back to my friends and parents in the Midlands - If you do that, petrol/boredom/hunger wise you are relatively limited to a few service stations on the way - if I remember right, Brough, Westmoreland and one or two others - inevitably I stopped at Brough as it had the best facilities.

I'm pretty sure spontaneous means off the cuff or spur of the moment. As I mentioned, you can do that quite happily - you get the urge to drive to Germany, sure pop in your destination and let the Tesla do the rest. I'm not sure what your definition of spantaneous is?

Nobody is stopping you having a pee or a coffee on the way mate The Tesla doesn't lock you in until you get to the stop it demands

It will be interesting to return to this thread in 10 years.

All car manufacturers will be selling EVs - and most EVs only. Battery technology will have taken a quantum leap with ranges of over 1000kms with charging in 2 to 3 minutes. 0 - 60 in 3 seconds. Minimal servicing - only brakes and tyres.

The EV will so outperform ICE powered cars as to make ICEs unsaleable...