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  #41  
Old 21.12.2018, 09:33
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Fossil fuel cars will plummet in value.
I actually think to the absolute contrary:
Fossil fuel cars (and motorbikes) will become a luxury, and you will have to pay a lot to drive and fill up one.
Also, if the car companies get pressured by the "greenefied" governments in the future (after Trump), the technology development and economies of scale should drive the EV prices down, and ICE up (to push them out of the average consumer hands).

On the other topic branch of whether EVs are "cleaner" to run than ICE cars, this should sort out the answer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM
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Old 21.12.2018, 09:36
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

I had to leave Iron Pig on Malta, poor Piggy after being turned into a Frankenbeemer, five years in a country without a MFK she would not have stood a snowball´s chance under the gimlet eye of a German TÜV inspector.
I´d love another bike but winter is saying "Nope!" also the bike I would want is out of the range of my paltry few Euros, so it looks like it has to be a can. At the moment I am looking at a 2001 Audi A3 for 750 Euros, it´s Euro 4, 160gCo2/Km and a "4" particle. What ever that all means, don´t forget the last time I owned a car was 1995.


Where was I?


Right


I once read that the most environmentally friendly car is one that is at least 10 years old and that the environmental footprint of a new car, especially an electric one is magnitudes higher that that of an old banger.
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  #43  
Old 21.12.2018, 10:17
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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I wish I could bring my HK Tesla to CH, but it's right hand drive AND the warranty will be void if I move it to CH. That's not even considering all the paperwork that would be required.

Still on the fence whether to buy a new Model 3, or an older Model S. Although our current Model S is 85kWh and plenty for us, getting an early 100D is tempting. Not just for the extra range, but also that you can charge faster for a longer time (so a shorter journey). And I tried a MS P100D while on a skiing vacation a year ago - the traction of such a car is unbeatable. Going up the steep roads we didn't get stuck even once, although we saw many fossil 4x4s that couldn't cope.
I'm currently in a 100D, but had a 2014 70D here for 3 years before. It was honestly completely fine range wise for going literally anywhere - into the middle of Germany or France, up the mountains here, so maybe consider that?
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  #44  
Old 21.12.2018, 11:38
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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I'm currently in a 100D, but had a 2014 70D here for 3 years before. It was honestly completely fine range wise for going literally anywhere - into the middle of Germany or France, up the mountains here, so maybe consider that?
We would sometimes do longer trips also. Not that often, but having more range (and being able to charge faster) is very useful.

Also, if you can keep the battery away from 0% and 100%, it will last even longer - most likely beyond the life of the car itself.
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  #45  
Old 21.12.2018, 11:55
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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We would sometimes do longer trips also. Not that often, but having more range (and being able to charge faster) is very useful.

Also, if you can keep the battery away from 0% and 100%, it will last even longer - most likely beyond the life of the car itself.
I always charge to 90% and I don't think I've ever had it below 15%. In the years I had the 70D, I noticed no range reduction, but I maybe only drove 20k or so.
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Old 23.12.2018, 10:04
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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I'm currently in a 100D, but had a 2014 70D here for 3 years before. It was honestly completely fine range wise for going literally anywhere - into the middle of Germany or France, up the mountains here, so maybe consider that?
I'm in a similar situation to HKCH. I just sold my MS 60D in Hong Kong and will be moving back to Switzerland next month. My wife and I have decided that we'll only buy an electric car and at the moment a MS or MX are the only ones we're considering. Battery size is the big question for me, not for everyday usage since we'll install a charger in the garage, but for trips to the mountains. I'm worried that the battery will suffer massive drain if we do a ski holiday somewhere and have to park outside without access to charging. Cold weather was never an issue in HK (why people bought the cold weather package is beyond me); does it make a significant impact in Switzerland?
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  #47  
Old 23.12.2018, 10:14
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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I just watched "Who killed the electric car" on Youtube. Very interesting documentary, but also highly disturbing. I know there are companies out there such as Lionev that convert and/or sell electric cars. Does anyone know about the possibility and availability of such kits/cars in Switzerland? I know the Swiss are tightly controlling every vehicle on the streets and perhaps they do not yet allow such vehicles on the road. Does anyone know what the policy is, or have any more info on extremely "green" driving in Switzerland? I would like my next car to be as green as possible, and no, a Prius Hybrid is not green enough for me.

The air car should be commercially available in the summer of 2008. That is of course, if the big oil companies and car manufacturers don't lobby, bribe, and corrupt government officials to have them declared not road worthy.

What happened to the video?
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  #48  
Old 23.12.2018, 11:51
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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What happened to the video?
Your Google mojo is weak
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nsJAlrYjGz8
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  #49  
Old 23.12.2018, 12:23
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Thanks! So what else is new?


GM and co have been buying out to kill competition since day 1.

LA once had a trolley system. Now its limited to Disneyland.


By the way, where are all the electric cars that we have now, going to go when their batteries are dead?
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  #50  
Old 23.12.2018, 12:38
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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By the way, where are all the electric cars that we have now, going to go when their batteries are dead?
They’ll get new batteries while the old ones are repurposed for other uses such as household batteries. The cars (at least a Tesla) have much less wear and tear than those with internal combustion engines.
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  #51  
Old 23.12.2018, 21:14
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

So one day I just may have a Tesla in my hand while surfing the tube.
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  #52  
Old 23.12.2018, 21:16
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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So one day I just may have a Tesla in my hand while surfing the tube.
Haha! I meant to store massive amounts of energy for houses with their own energy production sources such as solar panels. But you probably knew that!
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  #53  
Old 24.12.2018, 05:50
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Thanks! So what else is new?

...

By the way, where are all the electric cars that we have now, going to go when their batteries are dead?
Batteries in EVs are generally well managed. Maybe not so for some cheap Chinese brands, but for sure, in Tesla EVs.

https://electrek.co/2018/07/17/tesla...miles-3-years/

Here is an example of a Tesla Model S that did mainly supercharging (which is tougher on the battery than slow charging). And yet it lasted almost 500000 km before they changed the battery (on warranty). So they really beat the shit out of that battery and they already saved 60000 USD on a car that cost them 80000 USD. This is comparison to an equivalent ICEV.

And even so, when some day there are enough batteries from EVs to recycle - they will be recycled. Nothing in the batteries are lost, so after recycling, they can start over in that cycle.

Just because there is a warranty of 8 years on the battery of a Tesla, doesn't mean that after 8 years, the battery is dead. Few cars make it past 500000 km anyway - so for most EVs, the batteries never have to be changed. Only reused for other purposes, or recycled into new batteries.

Now, imagine all the oil, spark plugs, belts, exhausts, catalytic converters and such, that an ICEV consumes over its lifetime. EVs don't even have that.

Sticker price might (still) be higher for en EV over an ICEV, but the total cost of ownership is already much lower. Unfortunately, most people are not sufficiently informed to see beyond sticker price. They will simple say "A 40000 CHF EV is twice as expensive as a 20000 CHF ICEV"). Which is true only the day you buy it. Over the course of the life of the car, a 40000 CHF EV will be much cheaper than a 20000 CHF ICEV.
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  #54  
Old 24.12.2018, 08:29
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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I'm in a similar situation to HKCH. I just sold my MS 60D in Hong Kong and will be moving back to Switzerland next month. My wife and I have decided that we'll only buy an electric car and at the moment a MS or MX are the only ones we're considering. Battery size is the big question for me, not for everyday usage since we'll install a charger in the garage, but for trips to the mountains. I'm worried that the battery will suffer massive drain if we do a ski holiday somewhere and have to park outside without access to charging. Cold weather was never an issue in HK (why people bought the cold weather package is beyond me); does it make a significant impact in Switzerland?
I don't go skiing much, but from Zurich, most resorts are pretty well served regarding superchargers. I went to Obersaxen once, and Vals a few times with the 70D with no problems - check www.tesla.com/trips to see where the superchargers are. Normally, even though I didn't need it, and just to be on the safe side, I would stop in Bad Ragaz where there is a charger just off the motorway, then you can get to anywhere in Graubünden with enough charge to get back to Bad Ragaz again without any issue. Many hotels now have their own destination chargers too, so you can relax on the range anxiety.
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  #55  
Old 24.12.2018, 09:00
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

All this planning about where to stop and charge and if theirs enough juice to get back again to a particular place for charging must kill all spontaneity and to a lesser extent imagination: how boring !
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Old 24.12.2018, 09:27
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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All this planning about where to stop and charge and if theirs enough juice to get back again to a particular place for charging must kill all spontaneity and to a lesser extent imagination: how boring !
This is honestly the response of someone who has never driven one. With your regular ICE car, I presume on longer travels, you plan the odd bathroom break (esp if you have kids?) or somewhere to stop for lunch etc.

Even if you don't take 30 seconds to type your route into a route planner before you leave, as soon as you get in the car and plug it into the Navigation, it will calculate a route for you with enough charge in reserve for safety, so you don't need to think about a thing, other than your destination if you don't want to. You can be as spontaneous as you like!
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Old 24.12.2018, 09:54
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All this planning about where to stop and charge and if theirs enough juice to get back again to a particular place for charging must kill all spontaneity and to a lesser extent imagination: how boring !
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With your regular ICE car, I presume on longer travels, you plan the odd bathroom break (esp if you have kids?) or somewhere to stop for lunch etc.
Why would you assume anything like that? There are petrol stations, with toilets, and cafés/restaurants pretty much everywhere, so you simply stop when the demands of tank, bladder or stomach tell you to. Planning where you will stop doesn't come into it. And personally I never stop for lunch anyway - just grab a sandwich (or take one with you) and eat while driving. Have you never done a long journey in a normal car?

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Even if you don't take 30 seconds to type your route into a route planner before you leave, as soon as you get in the car and plug it into the Navigation, it will calculate a route for you with enough charge in reserve for safety, so you don't need to think about a thing, other than your destination if you don't want to. You can be as spontaneous as you like!
I wonder whether you fully understand what 'spontaneous' means? Having some software tell you where and when you will need to stop, and being limited to doing as it says, is almost the opposite thereof.
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  #58  
Old 24.12.2018, 10:50
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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This is honestly the response of someone who has never driven one. With your regular ICE car, I presume on longer travels, you plan the odd bathroom break (esp if you have kids?) or somewhere to stop for lunch etc.

Even if you don't take 30 seconds to type your route into a route planner before you leave, as soon as you get in the car and plug it into the Navigation, it will calculate a route for you with enough charge in reserve for safety, so you don't need to think about a thing, other than your destination if you don't want to. You can be as spontaneous as you like!

I have driven a Tesla once !


Planning everything in advance just kills the imagination !


I want to stop when I want to and where i want to, not where Tesla decide to put a charger


If i want to pee, or have a coffee to make me pee or eat something, i want to chose where this is rather than it be imposed by where ever a charger is.
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Old 24.12.2018, 11:06
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Why would you assume anything like that? There are petrol stations, with toilets, and cafés/restaurants pretty much everywhere, so you simply stop when the demands of tank, bladder or stomach tell you to. Planning where you will stop doesn't come into it. And personally I never stop for lunch anyway - just grab a sandwich (or take one with you) and eat while driving. Have you never done a long journey in a normal car?
Sure, I have a fairly long history of "normal" cars to go back through...My first car, a Honda Civic 1.6l, loved it, followed by an MR2 for a few years, then a Porsche Cayman S - I had a great time with all of them and undertook plenty of longer journeys mostly from where I lived in Scotland back to my friends and parents in the Midlands - If you do that, petrol/boredom/hunger wise you are relatively limited to a few service stations on the way - if I remember right, Brough, Westmoreland and one or two others - inevitably I stopped at Brough as it had the best facilities.

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I wonder whether you fully understand what 'spontaneous' means? Having some software tell you where and when you will need to stop, and being limited to doing as it says, is almost the opposite thereof.
I'm pretty sure spontaneous means off the cuff or spur of the moment. As I mentioned, you can do that quite happily - you get the urge to drive to Germany, sure pop in your destination and let the Tesla do the rest. I'm not sure what your definition of spantaneous is?

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I have driven a Tesla once !

Planning everything in advance just kills the imagination !

I want to stop when I want to and where i want to, not where Tesla decide to put a charger

If i want to pee, or have a coffee to make me pee or eat something, i want to chose where this is rather than it be imposed by where ever a charger is.
Nobody is stopping you having a pee or a coffee on the way mate The Tesla doesn't lock you in until you get to the stop it demands
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Old 24.12.2018, 11:15
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

It will be interesting to return to this thread in 10 years.

All car manufacturers will be selling EVs - and most EVs only. Battery technology will have taken a quantum leap with ranges of over 1000kms with charging in 2 to 3 minutes. 0 - 60 in 3 seconds. Minimal servicing - only brakes and tyres.

The EV will so outperform ICE powered cars as to make ICEs unsaleable...
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