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  #101  
Old 26.12.2018, 19:59
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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The problem with hydrogen is that it is used to power piston engines. These are fundamentally inefficient due to the pistons having to stop and start twice with each complete stroke. Rotating electric motors have up to 90% efficiency and somewhere about 60% in a car. This compares to about 20% for petrol. How efficient is a hydrogen powered piston engine??

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
That's not the problem of hydrogen but the problem of the engine. That's probably also the reason that a hydrogen car like the Toyota Mirai doesn't have a pistion engine.
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  #102  
Old 26.12.2018, 22:33
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

So, a Tesla Model X (100D) uses a bit over 20kWh per 100km, according to this table:

https://www.tesla.com/de_CH/support/...n-energy-label


How much does that actually cost?
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  #103  
Old 26.12.2018, 23:29
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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So, a Tesla Model X (100D) uses a bit over 20kWh per 100km, according to this table:

https://www.tesla.com/de_CH/support/...n-energy-label


How much does that actually cost?
Bit of a how long is a piece of string question.

If you have free supercharging, potentially nothing. If you have to charge elsewhere, it depends on if you can do it at home (and then which electricity board and which time if day you charge it) or if you have to do it in a car park or other private enterprise. For a time I was using a swisscharge station as I'm currently in a rented apartment without my own plug...i paid about 12chf per 30kw for that, but acceptable as you obviously only usually need to top up, not do a full charge.

Now i usually drive up to dietlikon every third or fourth weekend and do a bit of shopping whilst i let it fill up for free.
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  #104  
Old 27.12.2018, 04:28
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

NOTE: the Model 3 is on display at the Zurich City showroom
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  #105  
Old 27.12.2018, 10:59
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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There is no freedom of speech on a privately owned forum, as you well know. Opinion is personal, feel free to hold whatever ridiculous notions you fancy. Speech in a private forum has consequences.
.
May I also remind you we are not living in totalitarian state order. By all means keep kidding yourself. Let’s me absolutely clear about this it’s narrative is there to read.

Happy New Year.
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  #106  
Old 27.12.2018, 11:13
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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May I also remind you we are not living in totalitarian state order. By all means keep kidding yourself. Let’s me absolutely clear about this it’s narrative is there to read.

Happy New Year.
Eh? Try again maybe.


Anyway, as far as we are concerned, this forum could be a totalitarian, theocratic, fascist regime...but if we wanted to post in it, we'd need to abide by its rules.
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  #107  
Old 27.12.2018, 11:28
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

Without electricity no car would ever run.

Except perhaps a diesel, but getting it started would take some doing.

Personally, I think getting all cars to run on a bunch of Evereadys is no long term solution to the worlds environmental and energy problems.
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  #108  
Old 27.12.2018, 12:43
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Without electricity no car would ever run.

Except perhaps a diesel, but getting it started would take some doing.

Personally, I think getting all cars to run on a bunch of Evereadys is no long term solution to the worlds environmental and energy problems.
But donīt forget unlike a dinosaur burner a e-car is not fussy where it getīs itīs electricity from, nuke-plants, wind, coal, hydro or a genetically enhanced speed Hamster in a big wheel.
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  #109  
Old 27.12.2018, 13:03
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

But it will never go with a Diehard!
https://www.diehard.com/
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  #110  
Old 18.01.2019, 08:46
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Hydrogen is the future.
... and it will always be ... the future. Never the present. 3/4 of energy wasted, another global network of "gas stations" with near monopoly needs invested it. Whereas electricity is already almost everywhere.

As for "going to the cabin", we did that last winter. Talked to the owner and asked - no problem to charge. And we paid and extra 20 CHF to cover the electricity.

Not only did we have plenty of charge all the time - but the remote phone function of the Tesla we had rented made it simple to preheat the car (while plugged in). The heavy snowfall was no issue - the snow simply melted off, and cabin was warm.

Add to that, the all wheel drive of that 90D we rented was superior to all the other cars in the snow.
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  #111  
Old 18.01.2019, 08:50
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

how much energy is waste to preheat the car and heat and cool the batteries to be able to charge... by the way most electricity still comes from coal and other fossil fuels... they recently banned high watt light bulbs but there is no discussion about tesla energy wasted to preheat cabin and batteries?

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... f energy wasted,

Not only did we have plenty of charge all the time - but the remote phone function of the Tesla we had rented made it simple to preheat the car (while plugged in). The heavy snowfall was no issue - the snow simply melted off, and cabin was warm.

.
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  #112  
Old 18.01.2019, 08:51
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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... and it will always be ... the future. Never the present. 3/4 of energy wasted, another global network of "gas stations" with near monopoly needs invested it. Whereas electricity is already almost everywhere.

As for "going to the cabin", we did that last winter. Talked to the owner and asked - no problem to charge. And we paid and extra 20 CHF to cover the electricity.

Not only did we have plenty of charge all the time - but the remote phone function of the Tesla we had rented made it simple to preheat the car (while plugged in). The heavy snowfall was no issue - the snow simply melted off, and cabin was warm.

Add to that, the all wheel drive of that 90D we rented was superior to all the other cars in the snow.
Glad you enjoyed it! Just a small clarification in case others misread it - you don't need to have the car plugged in to pre-heat it, you just need a 3G or better connection - i.e. not being in an underground car park.
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  #113  
Old 18.01.2019, 08:52
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

Here is another option - will deliver from next year:

https://products.rivian.com/

Up to 180kWh battery (650 km range). 0-100 km/h in 3 seconds. Top speed only around 200 km/h though (should be enough, even for das Autobahn).

Anyway, we will stick to either a Tesla Model 3, or a 2014-2015 Tesla Model S. A 90D or 100D would have been nice, although we would lose the large front trunk then.
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  #114  
Old 18.01.2019, 09:11
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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how much energy is waste to preheat the car and heat and cool the batteries to be able to charge... by the way most electricity still comes from coal and other fossil fuels... they recently banned high watt light bulbs but there is no discussion about tesla energy wasted to preheat cabin and batteries?
You seem to be suggesting in a roundabout way that cars should not be allowed to have air-con. Good luck with that.
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  #115  
Old 18.01.2019, 09:13
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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Here is another option - will deliver from next year:

https://products.rivian.com/

Up to 180kWh battery (650 km range). 0-100 km/h in 3 seconds. Top speed only around 200 km/h though (should be enough, even for das Autobahn).

Anyway, we will stick to either a Tesla Model 3, or a 2014-2015 Tesla Model S. A 90D or 100D would have been nice, although we would lose the large front trunk then.
I missed that - most of these things tend to be vaporware, but that certainly seems to be hitting the mark with early reviewers. The more the merrier, bring it on! 650km with 180kwh seems low though - it's only 100km more than a Tesla S 100D despite almost doubling the charge!
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  #116  
Old 18.01.2019, 09:32
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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I missed that - most of these things tend to be vaporware, but that certainly seems to be hitting the mark with early reviewers. The more the merrier, bring it on! 650km with 180kwh seems low though - it's only 100km more than a Tesla S 100D despite almost doubling the charge!

It's a watt guzzler
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  #117  
Old 23.01.2019, 05:50
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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I missed that - most of these things tend to be vaporware, but that certainly seems to be hitting the mark with early reviewers. The more the merrier, bring it on! 650km with 180kwh seems low though - it's only 100km more than a Tesla S 100D despite almost doubling the charge!
Rivian is in SUV or pickup truck versions. Can't really compare the efficiency of a sleek sedan to a monster truck. Like comparing a Range Rover to a coupé.

But we need more different EVs. What I would like to see more of:

1) More types of EVs: Small cars with long range, Station Wagon / Estate, 8-10 person van, utility vehicles

2) Towing capability

3) Battery pack extension modules

4) Active battery temperature control/regulation

5) Charging network - extension on both roadside (highway mainly), and residential, shopping, industrial etc.

- - -

-> 1) Station wagons were popular in the USA around the 1970s, a bit before and after that, but today, there are almost none in the US. Highly popular in Northern Europe especially, it's a big segment to miss. One example could be a station car version of the Tesla Model S (not as a remake, but factory version). With towing hook option, please.

Segments in the USA are mini, sedan, van, SUV, pickup and such. Small and simple cars for 4-5 persons, minimum equipment but long range and fast charging.

Mini cars, simple and cheap, but with a long range. Both for longer journeys, but also for those city dwellers who can't (yet) charge at home/work. Fast charging a must, and active battery cooling.

-> 2) Towing capability still confined to a few EVs only. EVs are great for towing, but the reduced range means larger battery packs needed. Possible that towed vehicles could have added battery storage. Even as rental modules, see below.


-> 3) Cassettes/modules with battery packs that can expand the capacity of an EV. On daily basis, the car can weigh much less, be cheaper to buy and free up those saved batteries for producing EVs at a faster rate. When you need longer range, just stop by and rent one or more packs for your journey. The compartments to place the packs in could double as baggage storage when battery extension is not installed. Not only will you get a longer range, but you will also charge up faster: The more batteries you have, the faster you can charge, and charging to less than 100% significantly reduces charging time as well.

-> 4) All EVs should have an active temperature control and monitor system. Otherwise, there will be too many stories of EV batteries range declining too fast. Or even battery failures. Slower charging and all that.

-> 5) When EVs soon become mainstream (also outside of Norway), there needs to be a lot more charging stations. The most important is (relatively) slow chargers scattered in parking lots. Just sockets one can plug into, 3 to 7 kW, depending on how long a typical car parks in that lot. For airport parking, 2kW charging (220V 10A) would be plenty for most visitors. It is important that people can plug in (or even charge automatically with induction charging), and not having to move their cars when charging is done.
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  #118  
Old 23.01.2019, 05:56
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

the problem is that all this battery charging and maintenance will add up dramatically when everyone uses an EV. the the prices will explode... and most electricity is produced from fossil fuels anyways so I dont see the benefits yet if everyone uses an EV. Its fine when a small percent is using EV but if we all use it it will be worst than now...
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  #119  
Old 23.01.2019, 06:04
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

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the problem is that all this battery charging and maintenance will add up dramatically when everyone uses an EV. the the prices will explode... and most electricity is produced from fossil fuels anyways so I dont see the benefits yet if everyone uses an EV. Its fine when a small percent is using EV but if we all use it it will be worst than now...
Battery charging can be done overnight, when the grid is dormant anyway.

Battery maintenance? Are you confusing EV batteries with lead acid wet cell batteries? There is no "maintenance" ...

Electricity is becoming greener and greener over time. In Denmark, more than 50% of electricity comes from wind turbines. The electricity it takes for a typical EV to drive 100 km is less than the electricity it takes to make 5 liters of fossil fuels (including refining, transporting, pumping and such). So the more electric cars there are on the roads, the LESS electricity we will be using: Because all that electricity can be saved in the fossil fuel production. Add to that, all those fossil fuels NOT being burned. From tail pipes at street levels, right in the face of city dwellers.

And every time another fossil fuelled vehicle is sold, there is one more brick locked into a decade or more of oil dependancy. Whereas EVs only get greener and greener over time, a fossil fuel car just gets dirtier, as it wears out.

Maybe you can see it now?
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  #120  
Old 23.01.2019, 06:24
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Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?

First of all Norway does not represent the world...
Norway might have a big percentage of electric vehicles however the biggest number of electric vehicles are not in Norway where electricity production is not from hydro sources.
Additionally yes there is a lot of maintenance involved in batteries and the electric grid. when it comes to batteries in my not be the traditional type of maintenance however there is maintenance even if it is done through electronic and electrical means and this maintenance is costly and uses electricity so if everyone had an electric vehicle it would be a huge drain on the electric grid for maintenance and charging and maintaining a charge.

by the way I hope you realize that when you pay your electric bill you pay for the electricity that you use and almost the same amount for the grid because the grid needs maintenance.

I think you are very attracted to the few positive points of electric vehicles but you fail to consider the entire image of battery production electric vehicle production and all the associated costs of having everybody on the electric grid...
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