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-   -   Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH? (https://www.englishforum.ch/transportation-driving/16564-electrical-cars-eco-friendly-driving-options-ch.html)

ElJeFe 26.12.2007 19:10

Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
I just watched "Who killed the electric car" on Youtube. Very interesting documentary, but also highly disturbing. I know there are companies out there such as Lionev that convert and/or sell electric cars. Does anyone know about the possibility and availability of such kits/cars in Switzerland? I know the Swiss are tightly controlling every vehicle on the streets and perhaps they do not yet allow such vehicles on the road. Does anyone know what the policy is, or have any more info on extremely "green" driving in Switzerland? I would like my next car to be as green as possible, and no, a Prius Hybrid is not green enough for me.

The air car should be commercially available in the summer of 2008. That is of course, if the big oil companies and car manufacturers don't lobby, bribe, and corrupt government officials to have them declared not road worthy.

Crumbs 26.12.2007 20:50

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Have you considered a Twike?

Boy Wonder 26.12.2007 20:52

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Don't know about the Swiss rules for electric vehicles. I do know that they don't have to look or feel lame, though: http://www.teslamotors.com/

Only thing though, where to plug it in if you're living in a flat and used to parking in the blue zone on some street nearby? If this could be solved (and the money for purchasing said vehicle miraculously arranged), I'd definitely get one.

ElJeFe 26.12.2007 22:25

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Wonder (Post 149474)
Don't know about the Swiss rules for electric vehicles. I do know that they don't have to look or feel lame, though: http://www.teslamotors.com/

Only thing though, where to plug it in if you're living in a flat and used to parking in the blue zone on some street nearby? If this could be solved (and the money for purchasing said vehicle miraculously arranged), I'd definitely get one.

Yeah that Tesla is pretty wicked, but out of my price range :-) I have a garage at the moment so arranging for electricity shouldn't be an impossibility.

A Twike is an interesting concept, however it does require physical input, and I do not consider the pricing quite reasonable (30,000+ CHF for a basic model), plus the fact that driving on the highway is probably not allowed since the top speed is around 85 km/h. Air powered vehicles are supposed to cost around 3500 € according to the manufacturer, with a top speed of 110 km/h.

Nathu 27.12.2007 01:30

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElJeFe (Post 149466)
The air car should be commercially available in the summer of 2008. That is of course, if the big oil companies and car manufacturers don't lobby, bribe, and corrupt government officials to have them declared not road worthy.

The air car is a big scam hunting for investor money. The principle fails because of a couple of physical problems and a ridiculously low energy density in this storage system. I could prove this with my mediocre math skills but at half past one in the morning, after four Cuba Libres, this is obviously out of the question.

Do not, I repeat DO NOT talk about the air car at the next Venture Cocktail party. :D

Shorrick Mk2 27.12.2007 08:53

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
I always wondered if we were to switch our entire car pool (say Switzerland, to start small) from gas to electric - where would all that electricity come from?

ElJeFe 27.12.2007 09:43

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 149500)
I always wondered if we were to switch our entire car pool (say Switzerland, to start small) from gas to electric - where would all that electricity come from?

Thanks for raising that question. Of course a green BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle) will need to be "fueled" with green electricity. Some argue that electric plants rely on coal and therefore the cars are not green, however the amount of CO2 resulting from charging the car via a power plant is far less than the CO2 it would spew out of its tailpipe were it powered by a combustion engine. Some people might start installing wind-power devices or solar panels to harvest the fuels for their BEVs. It is also a lot easier to change a single source of electricity into a green source, than it is to change tens of thousands of cars to become green. If we had the technology to put a man on the moon 40 years ago, we sure as hell have the technology to mass produce green cars today, the problem is the powers that be (big oil, car companies) who don't want to see their profits dwindle, and who will exert as much power as possible to keep the junkies (us) dependent on oil.

Shorrick Mk2 27.12.2007 10:16

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElJeFe (Post 149511)
Thanks for raising that question. Of course a green BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle) will need to be "fueled" with green electricity. Some argue that electric plants rely on coal and therefore the cars are not green, however the amount of CO2 resulting from charging the car via a power plant is far less than the CO2 it would spew out of its tailpipe were it powered by a combustion engine.

Is that a fact? I'd like to see hard figures. For instance, the CO2 quantity released for 1kW electric power (say at the plant, to be nice and forego the enroute losses and the efficiency factors of the storage battery and the electric motor) versus 1kW gasoline power.

Quote:

If we had the technology to put a man on the moon 40 years ago, we sure as hell have the technology to mass produce green cars today, the problem is the powers that be (big oil, car companies) who don't want to see their profits dwindle, and who will exert as much power as possible to keep the junkies (us) dependent on oil.
Ah, sure, I keep hearing that argument. The only tiny detail that is forgotten by proponents of that phrase is the cost of the "man on the moon" technology. When cost comes into play, I usually hear "I do not consider the pricing quite reasonable".

ElJeFe 27.12.2007 10:26

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 149520)
Is that a fact? I'd like to see hard figures. For instance, the CO2 quantity released for 1kW electric power (say at the plant, to be nice and forego the enroute losses and the efficiency factors of the storage battery and the electric motor) versus 1kW gasoline power.

Yes that is a fact, you can look up the figures yourself, besides you can request green energy at your local electricity provider in Switzerland. Green energy being solar power, hydroelectricity and other eco friendly energy sources.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 149520)
Ah, sure, I keep hearing that argument. The only tiny detail that is forgotten by proponents of that phrase is the cost of the "man on the moon" technology. When cost comes into play, I usually hear "I do not consider the pricing quite reasonable".

What about the cost to secure unrenewable energy resources in the middle east and Afghanistan? Currently the price is at hundreds of billions of dollars, and thousands of lives, not to mention that the price of oil is skyrocketing much to the pleasure of big oil. Hundred dollars a barrel is just the beginning. The "man on the moon" example was just to exemplify human creativity, not regarding cost obviously. Besides, can you can't put a price on the environment as a whole, it's far too precious.

Woodsie 27.12.2007 10:40

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Although I don't have figures, I have heard the same thing as ElJeFe is saying from different sources.

Obviously hydro and nuclear will produce less CO2 than a car, but there are other environmental concerns with those. Though Switzerland is able to produce hydro without flooding large tracts of endangered rainforest.

Gas turbine power stations also win easily, as gas turbines are inherently more efficient than petrol or diesel engines once they get over a certain output.

But my understanding is that even the nastiest coal powerstations (and Australia uses filthy brown coal which should have been outlawed decades ago) are better than a car engine. This is because powerstations run at much higher temperatures allowing for more complete burning and less emissions, are designed to run at one speed/temperature/capacity and to be run at maximum efficiency within a small range of that, and are constantly monitored and maintained by a team of highly trained engineers.

A petrol or diesel car on the other hand spends most of it's life running cold and inefficiently. A car is also designed as a compromise so that it can operate in a variety of conditions from idling in traffic, through climbing up a mountain pass to cruising on the Autobahn at 200kph, so is rarely operating anywhere near it's maximum efficiency. Finally, maitenance on a car involves a biannual trip to a mechanic who can range from a highly skilled technician to some guy who barely got through high school but is cheap.

Electric motors do better here as they operate efficiently over a much wider range of conditions and don't nead to warm up to an ideal operating temperature to operate correctly.

Shorrick Mk2 27.12.2007 10:44

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElJeFe (Post 149522)
Yes that is a fact, you can look up the figures yourself, besides you can request green energy at your local electricity provider in Switzerland. Green energy being solar power, hydroelectricity and other eco friendly energy sources.

Um, I sure don't recall making any claims, so I'm not going to look for substance to your arguments. I shall just quip in with a fact, not a soundbyte - coal has the highest carbon intensity of all fossil fuels, as such coal-fired plants have the highest rate of CO2 output per kWh.

Quote:

What about the cost to secure unrenewable energy resources in the middle east and Afghanistan?
What resources are we securing in Afghanistan? Let's not get carried away by populism, shall we...

ElJeFe 27.12.2007 10:53

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 149527)
Um, I sure don't recall making any claims, so I'm not going to look for substance to your arguments.

Wikipedia reference-linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_electric_vehicle#Energy_efficiency_and_car bon_dioxide_emissions Besides, please do not ignore the fact that there is such a thing as green electricity.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 149527)
What resources are we securing in Afghanistan? Let's not get carried away by populism, shall we...

Pipelines mate, pipelines. Do you really think the US is in Afghanistan because the kindness of G.W.B's heart? to save the local population from the Taliban? Guess again. Let's not stick our heads in the sand like ostriches, shall we...

Shorrick Mk2 27.12.2007 10:56

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
The world's greatest problem nowadays - wikipedia....

However, science says that coal puts out standardised .32kg CO2 per kWh. Gasoline puts out standardised .24kg CO2 per kWh. You can turn this around as much as you like it still remains the same.

Quote:

Pipelines mate, pipelines. Do you really think the US is in Afghanistan because the kindness of G.W.B's heart? to save the local population from the Taliban? Guess again. Let's not stick our heads in the sand like ostriches, shall we...
Mmm. Conspiracy theories. Me like.

ElJeFe 27.12.2007 10:59

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 149533)
The world's greatest problem nowadays - wikipedia....

However, science says that coal puts out standardised .32kg CO2 per kWh. Gasoline puts out standardised .24kg CO2 per kWh. You can turn this around as much as you like it still remains the same.



Mmm. Conspiracy theories. Me like.

Wikipedia is not the greatest problem (if at all), global warming is far greater.
I like how you keep ignoring the "green electricity" argument, where no carbon dioxide is produced. Not all power plants use coal.

Crumbs 27.12.2007 12:41

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
You could wait until the conspiracies are all sorted out. But a short-term solution for your concerns: How about switching to bicycle and public transport in the meantime? And, if you really do need a car, use the "Mobility" concept?

Polorise 28.12.2007 15:46

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElJeFe (Post 149534)
Wikipedia is not the greatest problem (if at all), global warming is far greater.
I like how you keep ignoring the "green electricity" argument, where no carbon dioxide is produced. Not all power plants use coal.

conspiracy aside .... you may like the look of this ... a little more practical than the Teslar .... Aptera

Funky styling.

Nairda 28.12.2007 16:41

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsie (Post 149525)
Electric motors do better here as they operate efficiently over a much wider range of conditions and don't nead to warm up to an ideal operating temperature to operate correctly.

True, but don't forget that the batteries need to warm up to work at maximum efficiency. I can't remember the figures, but the Tesla reserves x% of its battery energy to generate heat for this purpose.

I support mass market all electric cars, but in the meantime most Swiss cities have electric powered trams and trolley buses. And I'll have to make do with a turbo diesel MINI Cooper Clubman (less CO2 than a Toyota Prius) :D.

MoabMan 29.12.2007 22:26

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Hmm... the Toyota Prius. Not exactly what I would call a shining example of environmentally sound manufacturing technology http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/edito...asp?NewsID=188

Polorise 30.12.2007 06:57

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Much of this has been covered n the Global Warming thread (train wreck) ... but this online journal is always worth looking through : Technology Review

baboon 30.12.2007 10:06

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MoabMan (Post 149894)
Hmm... the Toyota Prius. Not exactly what I would call a shining example of environmentally sound manufacturing technology http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/edito...asp?NewsID=188

Actually the article you quote is almost pure BS. Do a little serious research on Sudbury and you'll see...

BeastOfBodmin 28.03.2009 09:08

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Tesla Model S is announced. You can make a EURO 4,000 deposit now, which is fully refundable, less a EURO 40 admin fee. If you own a Tesla Roadster, you get a Euro 8,000 rebate.

I think it's a good looking car.

Boy Wonder 28.03.2009 09:45

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeastOfBodmin (Post 428962)
Tesla Model S is announced. You can make a EURO 4,000 deposit now, which is fully refundable, less a EURO 40 admin fee. If you own a Tesla Roadster, you get a Euro 8,000 rebate.

I think it's a good looking car.

Nice.

Wonder if it'll be available in CH at any point.

BeastOfBodmin 28.03.2009 11:55

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Wonder (Post 428967)
Nice.

Wonder if it'll be available in CH at any point.

The blurb on their site says they start delivery in 2011 :mad:. Very tempted to put down the EURO 4K deposit, as it'll only cost me EURO 40 to cancel.

Boy Wonder 28.03.2009 13:05

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeastOfBodmin (Post 429006)
The blurb on their site says they start delivery in 2011 :mad:. Very tempted to put down the EURO 4K deposit, as it'll only cost me EURO 40 to cancel.

Only thing I'd be worried about is how to service the car - and possibly also how to arrange the electrical outlet so that it can be charged. Not trivial when living in an apt and parking in the blaue zone. Still, that's a minor problem.

Apart from that, nice looking car with great specs for a very reasonable price.

kevlegs 28.03.2009 14:20

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Think I'll stick to my Jeep Wrangler.;)
Also, the parts needed for green car ie batteries and such can't be that "green":msnsarcastic: to make can they?

Boy Wonder 28.03.2009 14:40

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kevlegs (Post 429071)
Think I'll stick to my Jeep Wrangler.;)
Also, the parts needed for green car ie batteries and such can't be that "green":msnsarcastic: to make can they?

Batteries could be recycled, I guess. Still, not sure batteries are the solution either - perhaps fuel cells will prove to be a better option. I'm no expert and don't really know much about the environmental footprint of these technologies. Still, there seems to be a reassuring consensus in the scientific community that petrol powered suv's don't do the environment much good, so it's probably a good idea to go look for alternatives.

And if the alternatives are pretty and have specs that put most gas guzzlers to shame, well, even better.

Of course, if you have a better idea of how to replace the petrol driven car - go ahead - make yourself heard. Don't settle for just complaining or defending the status quo, not that I think you would, mind you, it's just that some people ... well ... some people just aren't constructive at all.

MoabMan 28.03.2009 19:00

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
I was overtaken by a Tesla last week on the PCH near Dana Point. I thought it was a Lotus at first but the spooky silence as it went past made me take another look when I caught up with it at the next lights. The driver was certainly making use of its acceleration. I can imagine these things are going to be loved by pedestrians.

BeastOfBodmin 28.03.2009 19:20

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MoabMan (Post 429181)
I thought it was a Lotus at first but the spooky silence as it went past made me take another look when I caught up with it at the next lights.

I understand the design is based on the Lotus Elise.

BeastOfBodmin 28.03.2009 19:34

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Wonder (Post 429084)
Batteries could be recycled, I guess. Still, not sure batteries are the solution either - perhaps fuel cells will prove to be a better option.

For the Tesla Roadster, part of the price you pay includes replacing and recycling the battery pack. Like Ni-Cads, Li-ion aren't the sort of thing you just throw in the bin. LiFePO4 look like a better option in terms of their performance characteristics. A123 Systems appear to be getting ready to manufacture batteries for the hybrid market.

http://a123systems.textdriven.com/pr...UGUST_2008.pdf

Fuel cells are a nice idea, but I think there are still lots of problems to solve before they can be used as a power source.

Phos 28.03.2009 19:42

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MoabMan (Post 429181)
I was overtaken by a Tesla last week on the PCH near Dana Point. I thought it was a Lotus at first but the spooky silence as it went past made me take another look when I caught up with it at the next lights. The driver was certainly making use of its acceleration. I can imagine these things are going to be loved by pedestrians.

Yeah, those things are quiet. It could be a safety hazard. A pedestrian can cross into the street when they don't hear one coming. They really ought to mount speakers on the outside with programmable sounds; e.g., Harley, Tank, Airplane, spacecraft, etc.

BeastOfBodmin 28.03.2009 21:11

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 429204)
Yeah, those things are quiet. It could be a safety hazard. A pedestrian can cross into the street when they don't hear one coming. They really ought to mount speakers on the outside with programmable sounds; e.g., Harley, Tank, Airplane, spacecraft, etc.

I can imagine a market akin to ringtones, but for electric vehicles. "Official" Ferrari <insert marque here> engine tone.

FriendlyKiwi 29.03.2009 15:24

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
The fascinating aspect of electric cars in Switzerland is that they are 43% nuclear powered...

Be quite cool to say you drive around in a vehicle that uses equal amounts of nuclear and hydro energy, with the rest being imported French energy.

ChrisW 30.03.2009 15:57

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 429204)
Yeah, those things are quiet. It could be a safety hazard. A pedestrian can cross into the street when they don't hear one coming. They really ought to mount speakers on the outside with programmable sounds; e.g., Harley, Tank, Airplane, spacecraft, etc.

Pedestrians already frequently have that problem with bicycles: If they can't hear anything then they just step out onto the street in front of you without using their eyes. Maybe if there were more quiet cars around then they would learn to use their eyes as well as ears.

As mentioned in the first response to this thread, the Twike car is a simply awesome machine. It's a two-person electric car that can be even more efficient if you and your passenger also pedal, but even if you don't then it still has a 200 km range and a top speed of 85 kph.

Phos 30.03.2009 20:11

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisW (Post 430101)
Maybe if there were more quiet cars around then they would learn to use their eyes as well as ears.

Sure, maybe after the 2nd or 3rd time they get run over. :msnsarcastic:

grumpygrapefruit 16.05.2010 17:10

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeastOfBodmin (Post 428962)
Tesla Model S is announced. You can make a EURO 4,000 deposit now, which is fully refundable, less a EURO 40 admin fee. If you own a Tesla Roadster, you get a Euro 8,000 rebate.

I think it's a good looking car.

Tesla are opening a showroom in Zurich, not sure exactly when but I saw the "coming soon" signs on the window yesterday (I think it was in Sankt Annagasse). With 40 customers already, Switzerland is Tesla’s top per-capita market worldwide. If they ever make a van I would be very interested!

BeastOfBodmin 22.05.2010 12:05

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpygrapefruit (Post 813766)
Tesla are opening a showroom in Zurich, not sure exactly when but I saw the "coming soon" signs on the window yesterday (I think it was in Sankt Annagasse). With 40 customers already, Switzerland is Tesla’s top per-capita market worldwide. If they ever make a van I would be very interested!



From this morning's "Tesla Motors May Newsletter"
Quote:

On June 10th we will open our newest European showroom in downtown Zurich. Switzerland is Tesla's largest per-capita market and a strategic geographic base in the heart of Europe. The evening gala will include test drives and plenty of surprises for guests. The store will be located at Pelikanstrasse 10.

Tom73 22.05.2010 13:12

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Have you thought about a bycicle and public transport?

Electric cars are still too expensive to runn and to buy, or petrol is too cheap. You can put it either way you want.

If you realy want to go green, get a bycicle and avoid any batteries because they are definetely not green.
cicling is also very healthy and helps to keep the doctor away.

HKCH 21.12.2018 07:44

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Wonder (Post 428967)
Nice.

Wonder if it'll be available in CH at any point.

Very interesting to read this thread at the end of 2018. Some interesting points mentioned way ahead of their time, like the one about the relative quiet of EVs - new EVs sold after June 2019 must have some kind of noise polluter installed (for the blind, and to some extent those with OK vision BUT who can't be bothered to see where they are going).

We had a Tesla Model S for over 4 years now, and very happy. When we leave HK, we will sell it as it is a right hand drive version due to all the cars in HK driving in the wrong side of the road.

It is not likely I will ever buy a petrol or diesel car again. The odd renting of a car isn't always available (or affordable) in electric, but prices are falling. We have rented an early Model S in CH several times for vacation, at 100 CHF/day. When you save the fuel, it is actually very competitive. Very comfortable, quiet and lots of space. Great on mountain roads, as you simply recharge the battery going downhill, rather than let engine and to some extent, brakes, waste the energy.

Those who buy an expensive petrol or diesel, especially when from new today, will most likely stand to lose a lot on it the coming years. Like it did with other technologies like computer, mobile phones and such - it will take off quite abruptly at some stage. Fossil fuel cars will plummet in value. If you need to replace your car, and can't wait for an EV, consider to buy second hand - so you will lose less money when the market crashes.

When we move to Switzerland in 2019, we will either get a Model 3, an older Model S or have no car at all (depending on where we end up living).

StirB 21.12.2018 08:10

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Interesting to see the Evolution of this thread in the 11 years or so it has been up - I was 3 months into my stay in CH, just finished my probation period when this got posted!

Electric cars have come a long way in that time, but I disagree with your predictions a bit. Despite being shown to be superior in many ways, electric cars still have a long way to go to convince petrolheads that they are the way to go. In many ways, I wish the model 3 had waited and pitched itself at the 35kchf segment when it arrived, rather than the 60k starting point though, as everyone will now continue to bang on about electric cars not being affordable.

I do agree re never owning another car though. I've had a Tesla for 4 or 5 years now and can't see myself going back to petrol. When I was in Scotland last summer I thought I'd treat myself and rented a Jaguar F-Type from the airport for the weekend - it was a heartbreaking letdown, I'd always looked enviously at those, but it was pretty awful.

HKCH 21.12.2018 08:57

Re: Electrical cars, eco friendly driving, options in CH?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StirB (Post 3024896)
Interesting to see the Evolution of this thread in the 11 years or so it has been up - I was 3 months into my stay in CH, just finished my probation period when this got posted!

Electric cars have come a long way in that time, but I disagree with your predictions a bit. Despite being shown to be superior in many ways, electric cars still have a long way to go to convince petrolheads that they are the way to go. In many ways, I wish the model 3 had waited and pitched itself at the 35kchf segment when it arrived, rather than the 60k starting point though, as everyone will now continue to bang on about electric cars not being affordable.

I do agree re never owning another car though. I've had a Tesla for 4 or 5 years now and can't see myself going back to petrol. When I was in Scotland last summer I thought I'd treat myself and rented a Jaguar F-Type from the airport for the weekend - it was a heartbreaking letdown, I'd always looked enviously at those, but it was pretty awful.

We got one of the first (non-signature) Model S in Hong Kong, September 2014. Just bought the extended warranty so that it's fully covered until September 2022. We are planning to move HK->CH in 2019.

There are Model S that have driven more than 500000 km, and battery degradation is NOT an issue when the charging level and temperature is regulated as in a Tesla. Unfortunately, some people (deliberately?) misunderstand the 8 year battery warranty to think that you have to replace the battery after 8 years. And throw it in a dump. They don't even consider the recycling which ... isn't a thing YET since ... the batteries don't fail or degrade very much.

Since we only drive around 10000 km / year, I expect the battery to outlast the car - even though the chassis is made of aluminium and will most likely last many decades.

I wish I could bring my HK Tesla to CH, but it's right hand drive AND the warranty will be void if I move it to CH. That's not even considering all the paperwork that would be required.

Still on the fence whether to buy a new Model 3, or an older Model S. Although our current Model S is 85kWh and plenty for us, getting an early 100D is tempting. Not just for the extra range, but also that you can charge faster for a longer time (so a shorter journey). And I tried a MS P100D while on a skiing vacation a year ago - the traction of such a car is unbeatable. Going up the steep roads we didn't get stuck even once, although we saw many fossil 4x4s that couldn't cope.


About the introduction price: You need to look at total cost of ownership. I know that most people don't consider that at all - they simply look at the sticker.

With a typical EV, you will pay a lot less in fuel and maintenance - so over the life of the car (compared to a cheaper ICEV), you just pay more in financing, and less in fuel/repairs. Add to that the EV will last much longer - especially if it's aluminium and the battery temperature and charging level is closely monitored and controlled (like in Tesla Model S and X)

Petrolheads or not - things are starting to move with environmental issues. We can't keep burning fossil fuels like it doesn't matter. Solar is already on the rise in CH (and elsewhere), and despite a lot of "articles" cherry picking and even falsifying information and presenting it as "fact", electric vehicles are a magnitude better than fossil fuel cars. Even if you just look at how energy becomes distance traveled, the energy used just to find, extract, transport, pump and refine fossil fuels are far greater than those use to propel an EV the same distance. Before you even turn the key to start a fossil fuel engine car, the EV has already arrived at destination - using the electricity that would otherwise have been used to get the fossil fuel into the fuel tank of the car.


It will vary by country, but since a car is typically lasting for 10 years or more, starting an investment in such a vehicle in December 2018 is going to hurt more than the usual depreciation.

In a country with mountains, the regen is a godsend. Spending all that energy going up to the pass, it's awesome to get most of it back going down on the other side. It always pained me to rev the engine and wasting all that energy going down again.


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