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Old 12.01.2013, 18:55
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How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

Hi guys,
Today I was making a right turn on my motorcycle and I saw the traffic camera flash go off. Here is what happened:

- there are three different lights on this intersection.
- One for a left turn (which was red),
- one for going straight (which was yellow), and
- another for a right (which was green).

I'm certain that I didn't do anything wrong, but there was nobody else around intersection at the time... so it must have been me who set it off. I also have an L next to my license plate. Will this have any influence in whether they decide to fine me or not if I did actually make an error in the future?

This got me wandering. How exactly do road fines via traffic cameras work here? Do they send you a fine through the mail that tells you to go to La Poste and make a payment? If so, how do you argue the fine such as in my case?

Input from anyone with prior experience in this matter is especially appreciated.

Thank you!
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Old 12.01.2013, 18:59
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

That big magnifying glass in the top right corner google alike can help
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Old 12.01.2013, 19:05
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

I can't imagine going right too fast in the winter, and if the lights were really green, probably nothing will happen.
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Old 12.01.2013, 19:45
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

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I can't imagine going right too fast in the winter, and if the lights were really green, probably nothing will happen.
You can get a fine for turning right too fast? I've never even heard of such a thing... but I'm guessing these traffic cams are triggered by speed, not just motion. I wasn't going that fast at all... weird.
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Old 12.01.2013, 20:24
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

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You can get a fine for turning right too fast? I've never even heard of such a thing... but I'm guessing these traffic cams are triggered by speed, not just motion. I wasn't going that fast at all... weird.
Sorry, I meant to say that red light camera are often also speed cameras.
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Old 12.01.2013, 23:50
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

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This got me wandering.
Not too far I hope. My mind wanders all the time. I'm just glad it finds its way back....
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Old 13.01.2013, 09:10
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

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Not too far I hope. My mind wanders all the time. I'm just glad it finds its way back....
"wonder"

hahahah
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Old 13.01.2013, 09:44
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

Hi,


Here some information to the process. If they determine that the ticket is valid (and not an error, it's known to happen) then they send it to the registered owner. You will get an explanation as to which traffic law you broke with the "proof" of the picture. Included is a normal "Einzahlungsschein" (payment slip) if you disagree you usually have 10 business days to file an appeal (different from canton to canton). The worst thing you can do is to ignore because after x amount of time (I think after 60 days) they send it to the court system, there it gets very expensive very fast (300 francs) just to look at the case without the fine

As for the L this would have no affect. The Swiss are surprisingly relaxed in this regard. You would have to be a clear danger/menace for that (excessive speeding/drinking) for them to revoke your learners permit.


Good luck,
Philly


PS: In the canton of Berne they have had cameras go off prematurely. In your description it could be that the false positive was generated because the camera thought you were in the lane with the red light and as such running it. They check the tapes before sending the bill as to see what they can charge you for (extra). For example driving without a helmet or in a car driving with a cellphone at your ear.

Hope this helps
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Old 13.01.2013, 10:07
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

Motorbikes are blessed creatures in Switzerland. Speed and red light cameras here are almost always "front-facing" (set up to take a photo of the front number plate of the offending vehicle) -- you saw the flash, so the camera was in front of you. Motorbikes in Switzerland have a number plate only on the rear. Et voilà, no fine -- your question is moot.

But to answer your questions, your L plate would have no bearing on any fine (and vice versa); if you were to receive an infringement notice, it comes with an orange paying-in slip, just like any other invoice, so you can pay it at any bank or via internet banking; and there's a form on the back of the infringement notice that you can fill in to dispute a fine (e.g. you can nominate another driver, or simply dispute the circumstances). Be careful, though, as this may lead to a court appearance which could be very costly if (when) you lose ...

Last edited by Guest; 13.01.2013 at 13:33. Reason: Typo
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Old 13.01.2013, 10:08
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

Did you change lanes before the light? Maybe you crossed a solid white line which is an offence.
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Old 13.01.2013, 10:13
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

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did you change lanes before the light? Maybe you crossed a solid white line which is an capital offence.
Ftfy.
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Old 13.01.2013, 10:19
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

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Ftfy.
Did that once "changed lanes before the light", fine was only 740 CHF
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Old 13.01.2013, 11:05
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?


Traffic Offences - Q & A Bullet points

- this is also relevant for red light criminals.
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Old 13.01.2013, 11:33
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

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Traffic Offences - Q & A Bullet points

- this is also relevant for red light criminals.
Finally someone sensible provided link to relevant sources to address the OP's questions previously discussed elsewhere. Using search engine is less difficult than e.g. riding a motorbike - really
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Old 13.01.2013, 18:26
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

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Hi,


. You will get an explanation as to which traffic law you broke with the "proof" of the picture.

they dont send the picture, you need to apply for that and pay for the picture.
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Old 14.01.2013, 00:51
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

Hmm I wonder if that depends on the canton or it that has changed in the last couple of years? In Bern I always have gotten a picture.

But your answer sounds more like "our" modern bureaucracy. Pay, pay, pay...
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Old 14.01.2013, 12:08
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

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Hmm I wonder if that depends on the canton or it that has changed in the last couple of years? In Bern I always have gotten a picture.
Depends on the police department involved. Some will send the picture along with the fine, some will send it on request or at least let you have a look at it and some (e.g. City of Zurich ) will only make the picture available to the judge/court if you decide to fight the fine.
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Old 14.01.2013, 12:17
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

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Depends on the police department involved. Some will send the picture along with the fine, some will send it on request or at least let you have a look at it and some (e.g. City of Zurich ) will only make the picture available to the judge/court if you decide to fight the fine.
Just got one in the mail from Canton Geneve. No picture, just a letter with the date, time and location and a bill for 40 chf.

Photo cameras Phtuh! (I spit in their general direction!)
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Old 14.01.2013, 12:41
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

I successfully challenged one in Biel recently.

I was at a junction with three posibilities. Turn left, straight ahead, or turn right. I was in the turn left lane in a queue of cars with a large lorry at the front. After several succesive light changes it became apparent that the lorry wasn't going anywhere and the lorry driver put on his hazard lights and got down from his cab to inform the other drivers that he couldn't restart his engine. Based on this information myself ans all the other cars waiting to turn left moved over into the straight ahead lane and proceeded to turn left from this lane when the light was green (several changes required for us all to pass through). As the light was green simultaneously for left and straight ahead the traffic flow was not affected unduly (only the right turn light had a different sequence). I vaguely noticed a couple of flashes at the time but didn't really pay too much attention.

Several weeks later I received a lovely 100chf fine in the post with the reason given as 'failure to follow the designated road markings' or something similar. After much head scratching I finally worked out the reason for the fine and decided it was unjust. I think it gave 30 days to lodge an appeal so first of all I called the number given to explain the situation to be greeted by the response 'you're the third person to call with the same problem today'!. Upshot was they told me to write to them explaining my problem and they would examine the case. Sent my letter the same day and received a reply a week later saying that the fine had been cancelled.

My advise would be to wait and see if you actually receive anything in the post and thendecide whether it's worth appealing or not based on the reasons given for the fine.
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Old 14.01.2013, 12:58
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Re: How do Swiss traffic fines work and how do you argue it?

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Hmm I wonder if that depends on the canton or it that has changed in the last couple of years? In Bern I always have gotten a picture.
I've had camera offences from at least 6 kantons over the years (since ~2002, I guess, when I first had a car registered here) and never once had a picture enclosed. I can't be sure about Bern, but I'd be surprised if I hadn't been flashed there at some point.
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