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  #21  
Old 08.09.2021, 15:32
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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So who should give way? The ones coming downhill, or the ones with the parking lots on their side of the road?
The ones coming downhill: in presence of the blue parking, the road is effectively reduced to a narrower road. On a narrower road, the vehicle coming downhill must yield to the one going uphill, unless extremely heavier (SUV are not).

The parking spots are not to be driven, they do not count as a road (I would even guess you may be fined for tucking in ... ).
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  #22  
Old 08.09.2021, 16:21
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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The ones coming downhill: in presence of the blue parking, the road is effectively reduced to a narrower road. On a narrower road, the vehicle coming downhill must yield to the one going uphill, unless extremely heavier (SUV are not).

The parking spots are not to be driven, they do not count as a road (I would even guess you may be fined for tucking in ... ).
Just to clarify, I don't tuck into the blue parking spots, but the gaps between the blue parking spots (the gaps are there because they are driveways to some houses).

So... if the slope is not steep enough, then the ones facing the barrier will have to give way? But it depends on the how one defines the steepness as a hill? I see a problem here as one person's mountain is another person's molehill...

If I were to describe the road to my area, I would say that it starts flat for about 50meters, arguably uphill for the next 50 meters, then flat or even slightly downhill for 50 meters, and then definitely uphill (but not steep, can be cycled in middle gear) for about 300m. All the way there are blue zone parkings on one side, with some gaps in between where there are driveway to houses.
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  #23  
Old 08.09.2021, 22:54
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

In the presence of a white middle line you have no business being on the other side if you hinder oncoming traffic, you'll have to make do with your space.

Without a white interrupted middle line the "uphill has priority (exceptions apply)" rule applies, obviously only as long as you go clearly uphill. But that rule applies between similarly agile vehicle categories only, typically car vs car or other fast vehicles including motorbikes. However large vehicles are something different, including cars with trailers, and as usual timetable-bound vehicles like the yellow Postauto are higher prioritised still. Thus Postauto generally have priority in tricky situations, and other "unwieldy" vehicles or compositions come second even if they're going downhill. The "uphill first" applies among equals or comparably agile vehicle categories only, like cars and bikes.

I think unoccupied parking lots are to be used to drive on. For instance here (this is downhill) you're obvioulsy expected to act as if the road was double-laned while all that white parking space is free (likewise blue spaces, I'd use yellow ones to drive through as well). It wouldn't make sense to act as if the parkiong spaces are occupied while they're free.

That said, where necessary or useful there will be signposts ruling the situation. For instance here, where visibility is poor and up to this point it's downhill, the T-junction is even and the road is going uphill after the underpass, the signposts says you have to give right of way from this side. The white crosswise bar shows the latest position for you to stop.

axman, do you have a link to a map or something? Barrieres are generally used to slow traffic down, so the idea may be to "foster" passing each other with either using one of the gaps you mention. Where available including using the sidewalk if it makes sense.
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  #24  
Old 09.09.2021, 08:24
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

Few examples where I live:

This one has parking spaces along the right side. Starts mostly flat from the highway and then goes uphill. It is wide, but when a big SUV comes...

https://goo.gl/maps/6aFHrW9snzgJnAYz7

This one goes downhill and there is a barrier where that 30 sign is. There are further barriers further down.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZoRyVr6wtiwHAteE8

This one is full of blue zones as you drive uphill and someone has to tuck in or wait if there is a car parked, but if it is really "uphill" is arguable...

https://goo.gl/maps/asHYhDsZctYHhpju6
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Old 09.09.2021, 08:39
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

I think it's not off topic so I am asking.
Are the road rules the same everywhere in Switzerland?
(and before you react: I don't have a car
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Old 09.09.2021, 09:53
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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I think it's not off topic so I am asking.
Are the road rules the same everywhere in Switzerland?
(and before you react: I don't have a car

Yes, as it is a federal matter, however some communes/cantons have additional rules
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  #27  
Old 09.09.2021, 11:00
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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I think it's not off topic so I am asking.
Are the road rules the same everywhere in Switzerland?
(and before you react: I don't have a car
More or less yes. But:

- Snow chains are mandatory in some roads of some cantons during specific times. You'll never see a Basel police telling you to turn around if you don't mount the snow chains in your car. It may happen in the mountain roads of Graubunden.

- This is fun, it's not about blowing your horn. It's means the post auto/car postal has priority over anything on those roads. And you must make eye contact with the bus driver to check if he's telling you to do something: pass, back off, etc.





- 30 km/h is the new 50 km/h in urban areas. You don't drive, no prob. This is for the people that says "as long as I remember this street has been 50 km/h" and never noticed the change to 30.
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  #28  
Old 09.09.2021, 11:32
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

thanks for your response. I was asking because in Australia there are major differences (not many) like the right (or not) to do a U-turn at a trafic light.
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  #29  
Old 09.09.2021, 13:18
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

Every year, our roads committee has to raise this "right of way" question for our one lane, privately owned mountain road which has a couple of particularly steep slopes.

Translated, their instructions have always been:

Vehicles coming up have the right of way. Except when common sense should be applied. For example:

  • Motorcycles cannot be reversed up a mountain road.
  • Lorries, tractors and vehicles towing trailers should be given preference in both directions.
  • Courteous motorists will nip into the layby (regardless of whether its on the right or wrong side of the road) to allow lorries and vehicles towing trailers to stay on the main road at all times
  • Ambulances and other emergency vehicles have right of way whether their sirens are on or not
  • All motorists should be aiming to look well ahead where possible, to avoid any situation of vehicles meeting head on and one of them having to reverse

And why I hear you ask, does this topic come up every single year? Because the same few residents apply the dogmatic view of "vehicles coming up have the right of way". Sigh. And we all know to give the "tourists" a bit of extra leeway as so many are simply clueless for driving on a mountain road, especially in the winter months.

My special highlight though for any motorists not familiar with mountain roads...A truck or 4WD vehicle is MUCH heavier than your nippy little Audi or Suzuki hatchback. Which means they will usually take longer to stop, especially on icy roads. So its not a good idea for you in your nippy car, to plan to meet where you think the bigger vehicle will stop - you might wind up getting your front bumper squished or worse!
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  #30  
Old 09.09.2021, 13:24
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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Few examples where I live:

This one has parking spaces along the right side. Starts mostly flat from the highway and then goes uphill. It is wide, but when a big SUV comes...

https://goo.gl/maps/6aFHrW9snzgJnAYz7
I honestly don't see a problem here. This direction will need to slow down more due to the parked cars, you need to brace for children or animals darting from between them, but IMHO there shouldn't be a problem with two cooperative drivers. You can see from a nice distance if the other races or slows down and moves fully to the right, maybe prepares to use the sidewalk. If the other isn't cooperative I might decide to reciprocate and return to the middle of the road, including forcing a stop if applicable (don't ask about the legality of this last part).
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This one goes downhill and there is a barrier where that 30 sign is. There are further barriers further down.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZoRyVr6wtiwHAteE8
This looks like the slowdown is forced by design, possibly because of people speeding downhill in the past. Give way, you're downhill and the road narrows on your side. (the forced slowdown seems to apply to the area in general, including the pedestrian crossing a bit uphill)

Not sure about the double barrier, but I'd guess that you can't enter the t-junction if oncoming traffic is already at their first barrier.
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This one is full of blue zones as you drive uphill and someone has to tuck in or wait if there is a car parked, but if it is really "uphill" is arguable...

https://goo.gl/maps/asHYhDsZctYHhpju6
It's difficult to tell from a map alone, but I don't think that's up/downhill either. There's plenty space anyway.

Last edited by Urs Max; 09.09.2021 at 13:34.
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  #31  
Old 09.09.2021, 13:36
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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Few examples where I live:

This one has parking spaces along the right side. Starts mostly flat from the highway and then goes uphill. It is wide, but when a big SUV comes...

https://goo.gl/maps/6aFHrW9snzgJnAYz7

This one goes downhill and there is a barrier where that 30 sign is. There are further barriers further down.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZoRyVr6wtiwHAteE8

This one is full of blue zones as you drive uphill and someone has to tuck in or wait if there is a car parked, but if it is really "uphill" is arguable...

https://goo.gl/maps/asHYhDsZctYHhpju6
None of those are mountain roads.
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  #32  
Old 09.09.2021, 15:38
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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It's difficult to tell from a map alone, but I don't think that's up/downhill either. There's plenty space anyway.
My neighbor says this is uphill. And there is no space usually as the car parks are almost always full.

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None of those are mountain roads.
According to you. But who decides?

Iím not an aggressive driver and usually will give way, but Iíve seen many drivers arguing on this street ( in my last example), and then my neighbor got annoyed with my driving because she says I am tucking in even though it is my right of way.
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  #33  
Old 09.09.2021, 16:03
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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None of those are mountain roads.
I have not found the specific regulation but it seems >10% slope is steep. 10cm in 1m.

However, without an inclinometer, how would you know the slope of the road? That's why the steep road signs help. But never seen them in a urban area. Only out of town.
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  #34  
Old 09.09.2021, 16:54
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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I have not found the specific regulation but it seems >10% slope is steep. 10cm in 1m.

.
Nah, Hardknott pass in the U.K's Lake District is 33% in places. That's steep.
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Old 09.09.2021, 20:59
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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I’m not an aggressive driver and usually will give way, but I’ve seen many drivers arguing on this street ( in my last example), and then my neighbor got annoyed with my driving because she says I am tucking in even though it is my right of way.
On second thought:
#2 and #3 are no narrowings of the road, parked cars are obstacles. Where an obstacle is on your side and you can't pass the other with the remaining width, it's you who has to wait.
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Old 09.09.2021, 21:03
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

Where parking spots or other decorations are used to slow down traffic it's usually an urban 30 kmh zone and not a mountain road, whoever has the obstacle on his side has to give way. The objective is clearly to slow down traffic not making people reverse and create dangerous situations. These streets should be designed in such a way where this behaviour is natural.
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  #37  
Old 10.09.2021, 08:06
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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On second thought:
#2 and #3 are no narrowings of the road, parked cars are obstacles. Where an obstacle is on your side and you can't pass the other with the remaining width, it's you who has to wait.
This is clear, but I have to go back to my original question - no.2 is going downhill so not an issue, but no. 3 - what happens when the obstacles are on the way uphill?

On no.3, my neighbour says I have the right of way because even if there are obstacles, I am going uphill. The car coming down hill should be able to see me from some distance away and be prepared to let me pass. But I have seen drivers of passing cars arguing on this street, where they shout at each other who was supposed to give way.
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Old 10.09.2021, 11:28
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Re: Right of Way on Hill?

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This is clear, but I have to go back to my original question - no.2 is going downhill so not an issue, but no. 3 - what happens when the obstacles are on the way uphill?

On no.3, my neighbour says I have the right of way because even if there are obstacles, I am going uphill. The car coming down hill should be able to see me from some distance away and be prepared to let me pass. But I have seen drivers of passing cars arguing on this street, where they shout at each other who was supposed to give way.
Fighting is human. Next to my flat there's a narrow bridge with this sign. Depending on the direction I wait or have preference. Somehow, 1 or 2 times a year I see the other driver making gestures to me. So, not even this damned sign helps

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