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-   -   Serious Speeding - the law, the fines. (https://www.englishforum.ch/transportation-driving/168305-serious-speeding-law-fines.html)

Jumping Captain 12.02.2013 11:25

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Could not find the original source I had seen a few weeks ago when researching.

So, to verify the details off the website I had seen a few weeks ago, I called the ZH Staatsanwaltschaft ZH - the person I talked to didn't have a source for me, but assured me that the income from the partner would be considered in such a situation. Not 100%, but a majority thereof.
JC

HAT 12.02.2013 11:36

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
I read with interest how many seems to use the "menukarte" to price their speeding "fun".

For me, it is irrelevant because I do not exceed the speed limits in most cases (say 99% of the time). The 1% could very well be unclear road signs etc.

Anyway, drive safe and live to tell the tale. High speeds can kill. Take care on the roads.
:D

Sbrinz 12.02.2013 12:18

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
A little warning for those outraged by heavy Swiss fines:

About 10 years ago, at 4 am, I was driving alone on the autobahn near Bern and was clocked at 160 Km/hr. I received notification of the usual punishments, and I went to a friendly lawyer in Fribourg for advice.

He thought the fine of CHF 900,- and 10 days suspended prison was a bit steep, and explained that the time of 4 am would not influence the penalty, but he said it was worth trying an appeal.

I went to the Court in Bern, and while researching my file, I was invited to state my appeal before the judge. He listened to my simple argument "I feel the fine is too high", and he lowered the suspended prison term from 10 days to 2 days, but raised the fine from CHF 900 to CHF 2'000 plus CHF 300 costs. He also said I could appeal his decision - no thank you, I won't be appealing!

Jumping Captain 12.02.2013 12:38

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Did CTR get up on the wrong side of the bed? Hat was only saying to drive safe and don't overdo it. Where's the beef? Nothing wrong with a piece of sound advice.

I do drive faster, according to my speedometer, than the posted limit about 25%-30% of the time. Although I do know where my limits are [with regards to: a) speedometer calibration, b) street conditions, c) the limitations of the vehicle and d) my own driving experience].
JC

Sbrinz 12.02.2013 23:18

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumping Captain (Post 1795903)
Did CTR get up on the wrong side of the bed? Hat was only saying to drive safe and don't overdo it. Where's the beef? Nothing wrong with a piece of sound advice.

I do drive faster, according to my speedometer, than the posted limit about 25%-30% of the time. Although I do know where my limits are [with regards to: a) speedometer calibration, b) street conditions, c) the limitations of the vehicle and d) my own driving experience].
JC

e) the heavy penalties for speeding?

marton 12.02.2013 23:39

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumping Captain (Post 1795564)
I see it like this... Firstly, if you dare to dart into a pedestrian zone at that speed, you will be lucky if you are not carted away in cuffs for killing someone. The ignorance of some people on foot amazes me. Am glad the "no questions asked - right of way on zebra stripes" has been lifted. Though there are still those that are not capable of thinking further than 2 meters in front of their noses, then only with one eye (that includes not only pedestrians, but also numerous drivers who are truly incapable of handling a motorized weapon).

Secondly, doing 70 in a 50 is brainless... 70 in a 30 downright ignorant. If you get caught (and hopefully you will), then you surely deserve to be punished. Whether payment or jail time. The deed is done.

The city has incorporated several 30 zones here within the last ten years. Some vehicle operators are still oblivious to the fact that their vehicle (mostly quads and rollers) are capable of driving only 30. Especially the Sunday afternoon traffic, mostly those with German plates.

Lastly, to my knowledge, there is no judge or jury. Busted is busted. You do the deed, then you pay for it. AFAIK a fine is not reduced just because you showed up in court wearing your Sunday best and show your teared puppy-dog eyes or smile real big at the judge. That happens in another country or two.

The fines are posted and published... Fact.
JC

About "Firstly, if you dare to dart into a pedestrian zone at that speed, you will be lucky if you are not carted away in cuffs for killing someone"

True but I can take you to some 30 zones where you practically never see any pedestrians. The expression pedestrian zone conjures up a false vision of the streets & pavements swarming with people :D

SimonHicken 12.02.2013 23:45

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
As I've understood it, 30kmh zones are not pedestrian priority zones, they are 20kmh zones, here pedestrians can cross anywhere and even walk in the road, there are still designated crossings for pedestrians in 30kmh zones. Although in 30kmh zones vehicules from the right have priority.

Jumping Captain 13.02.2013 09:03

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yacek (Post 1795491)
With the 70 in a 30kmph zone is the jail time possible with probation? Can a judge pronounce a shorter sentence? It looks scary. Not that it is a good idea to drive 70 in a pedestrian zone, but I can imagine someone doing around 20 above the 50 speed limit and driving accidentally into a pedestrian zone. A one year jail time if someone had clean record so far seems very harsh, I mean beating up a person to disability is probably treated similarly however the intent to do harm is way apart.

Yacek brought up "pedestrian zone". It is clear to me - the difference between pedestrian and 30 zones.

Yes, 30 zone is still a "street" where vehicles have priority on the road. Still, there are still pedestrians with IQs well below the average that can not comprehend the difference between the two.
JC

Tom1234 13.02.2013 09:07

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumping Captain (Post 1796691)
Yacek brought up "pedestrian zone". It is clear to me - the difference between pedestrian and 30 zones.

Yes, 30 zone is still a "street" where vehicles have priority on the road. Still, there are still pedestrians with IQs well below the average that can not comprehend the difference between the two.

Or they're quite commonly residential streets full of children playing who may run out into the road.

mirfield 13.02.2013 09:11

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
The 30 zones I've seen tend to be in residential areas on roads that are used as ratruns.

My guess is that the limit is imposed to dissuade cars from using the roads which weren't exected to reach over a certain capacity when there are kids wandering about too.

Jumping Captain 13.02.2013 09:11

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 1796695)
Or they're quite commonly residential streets full of children playing who may run out into the road.

Yes, very true. Thus the tempo is reduced.

Jumping Captain 13.02.2013 09:23

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
New article this morning in 20minutes:

Thurgau Brings Father of Baby Emergency Before Bundesgericht (High Court).

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/ostschwe...richt-24467252

The incident happened in St. Gallen. The father was called early in the morning to make a life or death decision regarding the emergency condition of his baby. The mother is not conscious. He drives, fast, to the hospital. Flashed doing 61 in a 30 zone at 5:am.

After investigating and having human understanding for the situation, St. Gallen drops the charges. However, his home Canton, Thurgau, reverses the charges being dropped and pulls his license for three years.

The high court (Bundesgericht) reversed Thurgau's decision.
JC

Sbrinz 13.02.2013 09:28

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumping Captain (Post 1796712)
New article this morning in 20minutes:

Thurgau Brings Father of Baby Emergency Before Bundesgericht (High Court).

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/ostschwe...richt-24467252

The incident happened in St. Gallen. The father was called early in the morning to make a life or death decision regarding the emergency condition of his baby. The mother is not conscious. He drives, fast, to the hospital. Flashed doing 61 in a 30 zone at 5:am.

After investigating and having human understanding for the situation, St. Gallen drops the charges. However, his home Canton, Thurgau, reverses the charges being dropped and pulls his license for three years.

The high court (Bundesgericht) reversed Thurgau's decision.
JC

Sadly he broke the law, only ambulances are allowed to race with dying patients. In the end happily he won against the bureaucrats.

Jumping Captain 13.02.2013 09:38

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
What surprises me, is the fact the Canton Thurgau stuck their nose into business that has nothing to do with them in the first place.
JC

yjt 13.02.2013 09:46

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sbrinz (Post 1796717)
Sadly he broke the law, only ambulances are allowed to race with dying patients. In the end happily he won against the bureaucrats.

As explained in the article that's not true. The law was on his side. It was the bureaucrats as you say who needed to be reminded of their place

yjt 13.02.2013 10:12

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumping Captain (Post 1796712)
New article this morning in 20minutes:

Thurgau Brings Father of Baby Emergency Before Bundesgericht (High Court).

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/ostschwe...richt-24467252

The incident happened in St. Gallen. The father was called early in the morning to make a life or death decision regarding the emergency condition of his baby. The mother is not conscious. He drives, fast, to the hospital. Flashed doing 61 in a 30 zone at 5:am.

After investigating and having human understanding for the situation, St. Gallen drops the charges. However, his home Canton, Thurgau, reverses the charges being dropped and pulls his license for three years.

The high court (Bundesgericht) reversed Thurgau's decision.
JC

I would maybe add to this that the state attorney of St Gallen dropped all charges against the father.
The Strassenverkehrsamt of Thurgau thought they know better and decided to give him a year driving ban.
The administrative court of Thurgau told them to wise up and reversed this decision.
The verkehrsamt in their eternal wisdom with their fast knowledge of the laws which apparently exceeds that of the ones who are paid to uphold them appealed this decision to the high court. The high court obviously rejected the appeal and reminded the department that they have no right to second guess the law authorities unless they have additional evidence.

The article had a poll asking if the father should have been charged 97% say he shouldn't

aSwissInTheUS 13.02.2013 10:40

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yjt (Post 1796743)
As explained in the article that's not true. The law was on his side. It was the bureaucrats as you say who needed to be reminded of their place

Not exactly right. The federal court did not say if the speeding itself was o.k. or not. It only ruled that a license suspension was not o.k. because the authority responsible for the license suspension did not show (actually did not even try to show) that the speeding was not o.k.
It was the lacy bureaucrats who needed to be reminded that they have to do work before they can just decide about other peoples live (and driving license).

1C_345/2012

aSwissInTheUS 13.02.2013 10:45

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumping Captain (Post 1795744)
Still looking for the site on how the payment is calculated. In the mean time I found this:
http://www.bussenkatalog.ch/sicherheitsmargen

Stationäre Geschwindigkeitsmessungen und festinstallierte Radar-Messstellen:
[...]

Lasermessungen Laser Measurement:
[...]

Original source of these values is:
Art. 8 VSKV-ASTRA (SR 741.013.1 Verordnung des ASTRA zur Strassenverkehrskontrollverordnung)

aSwissInTheUS 13.02.2013 10:48

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumping Captain (Post 1795814)
Could not find the original source I had seen a few weeks ago when researching.

So, to verify the details off the website I had seen a few weeks ago, I called the ZH Staatsanwaltschaft ZH - the person I talked to didn't have a source for me, but assured me that the income from the partner would be considered in such a situation. Not 100%, but a majority thereof.
JC

You can find some guidelines on the webpage of the Konferenz der Strafverfolgungsbehörden der Schweiz.

yjt 13.02.2013 12:02

Re: Serious Speeding - New law, new fines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 1796814)
Not exactly right. The federal court did not say if the speeding itself was o.k. or not. It only ruled that a license suspension was not o.k. because the authority responsible for the license suspension did not show (actually did not even try to show) that the speeding was not o.k.
It was the lacy bureaucrats who needed to be reminded that they have to do work before they can just decide about other peoples live (and driving license).

1C_345/2012


Agreed but it's a prosecutor's job to sort out who has case to answer for breaking the law and bring the case before a judge. The prosecutor who took on the case decided he had no case to answer hence no law was broken. To say a normal person isn't allowed to speed if the passenger is dying isn't true. There's been plenty of cases where people haven't been prosecutated


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