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  #541  
Old 29.09.2016, 08:45
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

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UK police won't get involved, worst case they will get an 'official' looking letter asking for money from some tonky debt collection co. which they can simply ignore, they get bored after about 5 or so threatening letters
Not true.. plod normally hand deliver the fine letter to the registered keeper. Quite often the keeper is requested to attend an interview. . Note requested, a simple "no thanks" stops that.
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  #542  
Old 18.11.2016, 15:26
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

Hello guys,

I'm looking for a bit of advice after my own research has left with me a few questions. Ideally I'd like some clarity on punishments & fines - it seems there is a fair bit of knowledge flying about here!

I live in the UK and I've just received a letter explaining that, back in May, I was caught driving at 96kph (including -6kph) in a 50kph limit in CH. I have been summoned to court and the letter states the punishment is up to 3 years in prison or a monetary penalty and a fine.

I AM likely to return to Switzerland for work regularly so ignoring is not one of my options; I'd therefore like to ask a few questions, mainly...

Am I likely to get a prison sentence handed to me??

What is the difference between the 'monetary penalty' and a 'fine'?

I'm hoping that by filling in the required forms I will get off with a simple (but very hefty) fine. From my research I've seen that fines are based on your daily income - does anybody know if this is worked out on a 'salary / 365' basis or something more complicated (and hopefully more lenient!) such as post-tax income etc? If I'm looking at a '(salary / 365) x 60' fine I think I may throw myself under a bus, however if it takes into account your tax, living costs etc it would be far more bearable.

They are asking for copies of bank statements, tax returns etc as proof of income. If I fail to provide my bank statements how would they attempt to figure my daily income to work out the fine? Would they choose an incredibly high amount to teach me a lesson, or use what they perceive to be a likely income?

Apologies if any of the questions are impossible to answer, but any information would be greatly appreciated!
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  #543  
Old 18.11.2016, 15:32
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

I'm just checking, alrighte, have you read the whole thread?
I admit that I have not; I'd have thought, though, that quite a lot of what you'd need to know is already in this very thread.
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  #544  
Old 18.11.2016, 15:35
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

It's double the speed limit in a town area (more than double without the adjustment) so it's going to be big whatever happens, and most likely a % of your salary.

Ouch, it's going to hurt. A lot.
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  #545  
Old 18.11.2016, 15:35
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

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I'm just checking, alrighte, have you read the whole thread?
I admit that I have not; I'd have thought, though, that quite a lot of what you'd need to know is already in this very thread.
Most of it is in the very first post which gets regularly updated and amended. ; )
The rest are just funny stories of various fools not aware of their surroundings or not able to control their foot and getting caught in the act.
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  #546  
Old 18.11.2016, 15:49
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

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Hello guys,

I'm looking for a bit of advice after my own research has left with me a few questions. Ideally I'd like some clarity on punishments & fines - it seems there is a fair bit of knowledge flying about here!

I live in the UK and I've just received a letter explaining that, back in May, I was caught driving at 96kph (including -6kph) in a 50kph limit in CH. I have been summoned to court and the letter states the punishment is up to 3 years in prison or a monetary penalty and a fine.

I AM likely to return to Switzerland for work regularly so ignoring is not one of my options; I'd therefore like to ask a few questions, mainly...

Am I likely to get a prison sentence handed to me??

What is the difference between the 'monetary penalty' and a 'fine'?

I'm hoping that by filling in the required forms I will get off with a simple (but very hefty) fine. From my research I've seen that fines are based on your daily income - does anybody know if this is worked out on a 'salary / 365' basis or something more complicated (and hopefully more lenient!) such as post-tax income etc? If I'm looking at a '(salary / 365) x 60' fine I think I may throw myself under a bus, however if it takes into account your tax, living costs etc it would be far more bearable.

They are asking for copies of bank statements, tax returns etc as proof of income. If I fail to provide my bank statements how would they attempt to figure my daily income to work out the fine? Would they choose an incredibly high amount to teach me a lesson, or use what they perceive to be a likely income?

Apologies if any of the questions are impossible to answer, but any information would be greatly appreciated!
Think of it this way... If I were a judge and the case came before me and the defendant had refused to divulge financial statements it wouldn't take very long before the sentence

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Dollar value of 60 days, or 60 days...
started to form in the back of my mind.
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  #547  
Old 18.11.2016, 15:51
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

Just read the first post.

No prison for you (even if, it would be on probation only) as you are und 50 km/h over. Phuu.

Fines do not depend much on your income, but mostly on your offense.

Monetary penalty depend on your offense and on your income and wealth (AFAIK only used in case of no income). First the number of days than a multiplier based on your income.
They are handed out instead of short term prison sentence (it is expensive to run prisons, so this simple solution).
You got the basic math right. Tax, social security contributions, contributions toward depends, and some other factors are deducted. More or less you are left with the bare necessity for X days.

Like prison sentences they can be on probation. In this case you will have to pay a fine (Verbindungsbusse) of ~25% of the total calculated monetary penalty.

In your case you are looking at a monetary penalty of 120 days. (likely on probation. Probation period is usually two years)

If you do not state your income they will guesstimate it, high ball a bit, and then multiply by 2. If you do not object, it was to low. Bad for them (and me as a tax payer), good for you.
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  #548  
Old 18.11.2016, 16:22
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

Thanks for the quick reply aSwissInTheUS.

I had looked at the tables but couldn't understand the threat of prison in the letter when that wasn't in line with the punishments I had read online.

If the the monetary penalty is 'on probation' - are you saying I will likely pay 25% of it up front, and the remaining 75% upon re-offending?

120 days is looking to be in the tens of thousands of GBP for me, maybe I would be better off cutting ties with work in CH and avoiding payment... I've genuinely never heard of speeding fines this high until I'd researched what the Swiss had dealt out before!
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  #549  
Old 18.11.2016, 16:28
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

Lets say you are doing quite well - £150,000 a year - discounted to 50% due to tax - 120 days = £25,000

For that sort of amount is in line with what a Swiss driver would expect for such flagrant speeding

But be aware that is just the PENALTY. There will also be court charges and administration costs - and I wouldn't be surprised that would be 3,000chf (based on the size of the penalty).

Even if you pay 25% (with 75% on probation) you are looking at 11,000chf up front.

The flip side is you're not Swiss - and won't be losing your licence for a couple of years.

(I know a habitual flagrant speeder who ask to re-apply for licence after 5 years - he may be turned down even then)
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  #550  
Old 18.11.2016, 16:59
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

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Thanks for the quick reply aSwissInTheUS.

I had looked at the tables but couldn't understand the threat of prison in the letter when that wasn't in line with the punishments I had read online.

If the the monetary penalty is 'on probation' - are you saying I will likely pay 25% of it up front, and the remaining 75% upon re-offending?
The 3 year prison or monetary penalty is verbatim from the law (Art. 90 Abs. 2 SVG). It applies to most serious infraction of traffic rules, think about DUI and also repeated offenders.

The 120 days (give or take) is a recommendation. Which applies to good road conditions and no one endangered. But in the end the judge is free how he decides. If it was next to a school and children where present expect a much higher sentence.

PS: The full 100% are on probation. The 25% are not a prepayment, but an additional fine.
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Old 18.11.2016, 17:06
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

Thanks again for the replies and information guys.

It seems there isn't much chance of me escaping an enormous fine if I comply with the letter...

Given the amount I am likely to have to pay and the fact my business interests in Switzerland are a very small fraction of my yearly work, I'm inclined to store the paperwork in my bin and resign myself to the fact I won't be setting foot in Switzerland again.

The Swiss have no jurisdiction over me in any other country so, short of a plane diversion, I think I can keep myself clear of Switzerland for, well, the remainder of my life!
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  #552  
Old 18.11.2016, 17:13
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

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Thanks again for the replies and information guys.

It seems there isn't much chance of me escaping an enormous fine if I comply with the letter...

Given the amount I am likely to have to pay and the fact my business interests in Switzerland are a very small fraction of my yearly work, I'm inclined to store the paperwork in my bin and resign myself to the fact I won't be setting foot in Switzerland again.

The Swiss have no jurisdiction over me in any other country so, short of a plane diversion, I think I can keep myself clear of Switzerland for, well, the remainder of my life!
Have you thought if changing your name? That could be cheaper...
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  #553  
Old 18.11.2016, 17:18
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

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The Swiss have no jurisdiction over me in any other country so, short of a plane diversion, I think I can keep myself clear of Switzerland for, well, the remainder of my life!
Some trraffic departments / police countries have bilateral agreements whereby the local traffic authorities will pursue the fine locally, even if the driver incurred it abroad.
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Old 18.11.2016, 17:24
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

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Some trraffic departments / police countries have bilateral agreements whereby the local traffic authorities will pursue the fine locally, even if the driver incurred it abroad.
I've read this somewhere, too. I was just looking for the link.

If the traffic offence is grave enough (don't know if double over the speed limit in a town area would count, maybe?), they can pass it over to the UK police.

I'll have to try to find the link.
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  #555  
Old 18.11.2016, 17:28
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

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Some trraffic departments / police countries have bilateral agreements whereby the local traffic authorities will pursue the fine locally, even if the driver incurred it abroad.
But which law applies then?
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  #556  
Old 26.12.2016, 20:51
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

I just came back from a trip to Luzern and saw 3 radar flashes...one which might have been for me.

Weird thing though, I know pretty much all the fixed radars on the way from Zürich to Luzern and here's what happened:
1. Fixed radar near Gisikon-Root, traveling to Luzern. I was overtaking a bus, doing 124km/h on the GPS (app on the phone, speedo indicated almost 130). I ALWAYS drive that speed on that route and have never been flashed. Yet now...boom! I was actually exactly head to head with the bus when the flash happened. Is there maybe some law that the bus may only do 100 and he might have been doing more, therefore he was flashed not me? Again, I always always drive 124-125 past that cam and was never flashed.

2. After tunnel Rathausen, just before reaching Luzern, the limit becomes 80 and there's another fixed cam. There was a car about 30m in front, I was doing 79 (on the GPS) and the distance to that car was staying the same...boom, he got flashed! He can't have been doing more than 83-84, but I don't think even that.

3. Coming back direction Zürich, there's a cam before tunnel Rathausen, limit was 80, I drove past doing 79 (on the GPS), there was a car about 20m behind me, not drawing closer...boom, he got flashed! Again, he can't have been doing much more than 80.

Now, maybe I'm over-analyzing it, but I see three options:
1. All the cams were in the right, and technically they were at least in my case, but this would mean that the tolerance which used to be 6km/h (if I remember correctly) in a 120 zone is no longer 6km/h, but probably 3-4km/h.

2. (at least some) Cams were wrong. But then...all three? And why?

3. Some other explanation

Anyone care to comment?
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Old 27.12.2016, 08:38
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

Ready your wallet mate :P
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  #558  
Old 27.12.2016, 12:08
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

I (think I) know all the blitzers passing Lucerne. Yet I got blizzed when overtaking in a tunnel with a Dutch car right at my bum (which makes me very nervous as it reminds mit of the whiplash I suffered from for 25 years).

That was two years ago, never heard from them. Either it was faulty ... or the Dutch got it

Nothing you can do really but sit back and wait. (Oh and that particular blitzer gets my utmost attention since).
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  #559  
Old 27.12.2016, 14:59
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

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I just came back from a trip to Luzern and saw 3 radar flashes...one which might have been for me.

Weird thing though, I know pretty much all the fixed radars on the way from Zürich to Luzern and here's what happened:
1. Fixed radar near Gisikon-Root, traveling to Luzern. I was overtaking a bus, doing 124km/h on the GPS (app on the phone, speedo indicated almost 130). I ALWAYS drive that speed on that route and have never been flashed. Yet now...boom! I was actually exactly head to head with the bus when the flash happened. Is there maybe some law that the bus may only do 100 and he might have been doing more, therefore he was flashed not me? Again, I always always drive 124-125 past that cam and was never flashed.

2. After tunnel Rathausen, just before reaching Luzern, the limit becomes 80 and there's another fixed cam. There was a car about 30m in front, I was doing 79 (on the GPS) and the distance to that car was staying the same...boom, he got flashed! He can't have been doing more than 83-84, but I don't think even that.

3. Coming back direction Zürich, there's a cam before tunnel Rathausen, limit was 80, I drove past doing 79 (on the GPS), there was a car about 20m behind me, not drawing closer...boom, he got flashed! Again, he can't have been doing much more than 80.

Now, maybe I'm over-analyzing it, but I see three options:
1. All the cams were in the right, and technically they were at least in my case, but this would mean that the tolerance which used to be 6km/h (if I remember correctly) in a 120 zone is no longer 6km/h, but probably 3-4km/h.

2. (at least some) Cams were wrong. But then...all three? And why?

3. Some other explanation

Anyone care to comment?
Wouldn't it be safer to concentrate on the road and your driving rather than looking at your devices and comparing speeds?
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  #560  
Old 27.12.2016, 15:03
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Re: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.

Just use speed control instead of watching your TomTom?

The one at Rathaustunnel tends to flash more often, even if you are below 80.

As to 1): Yes, 124 will trigger that one.

As to 3) That one normally doesn´t set off unless you are well over 80 (I can drive by with 85 on the clock)

If you are unlucky this could be a very expensive week
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