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Old 20.08.2013, 13:43
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Question about parking ticket

Hi all,

I have a parking ticket because I was parked on a private parking spot. Fine. I made a mistake. Shouldn't have done that, should have opened my eyes first.

Now, prior to that, the parking spot owner came to me and left me a note asking for money or else he'd call the police.
I'm fine paying for my mistakes, and pay the police for that, but this sounds like bribery to me. Is this kind of bribery legal?
Just curious.

Thanks
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Old 20.08.2013, 13:51
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Re: Question about parking ticket

When you say the parking spot owner came to you and left you a note do you mean he came personally and pressed a note into your hand?

And, how did he prove to the police? that you were on his parking spot? - as far as I know, the police can't hand out fines for parking on private property.
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Old 20.08.2013, 13:51
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Re: Question about parking ticket

This is not bribery. This is about renting out a parking place.
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Old 20.08.2013, 13:57
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Re: Question about parking ticket

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When you say the parking spot owner came to you and left you a note do you mean he came personally and pressed a note into your hand?

And, how did he prove to the police? that you were on his parking spot? - as far as I know, the police can't hand out fines for parking on private property.
We have a private parking space and I've lost count of the number of times someone has slipped into it whilst we've been out. Our landlord has a contract with a towing firm but you have to call the police first and they organise the towing. All at the expense of the person that parked their car on your space.

We've been tempted to park in behind them in the past then bugger off into town for the day but I chickened out for fear it might be some kind of criminal offence, so we just let the (very expensive) towing firm have their fun...
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:02
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Re: Question about parking ticket

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Hi all,

I have a parking ticket because I was parked on a private parking spot. Fine. I made a mistake. Shouldn't have done that, should have opened my eyes first.

Now, prior to that, the parking spot owner came to me and left me a note asking for money or else he'd call the police.
I'm fine paying for my mistakes, and pay the police for that, but this sounds like bribery to me. Is this kind of bribery legal?
Just curious.

Thanks
So I take it you did not pay the owner of the parking spot? No wonder you got a fine then.

Could of been bribery, could of been, "hey, thats my spot that I pay for and you think you can just rock up and get free parking. Well, I will let it slid eif you want to pay me for it. Oh, you don't, well, fine, take this". SLAP goes the ticket.
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:03
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Re: Question about parking ticket

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And, how did he prove to the police? that you were on his parking spot? - as far as I know, the police can't hand out fines for parking on private property.
The police can hand out parking fines for parking on private property but there has to be a specific sign mounted near the parking spots. I don't have a link for the sign but it says something along the lines of "private parking according to article xy, the judge xy".

People parking on private spots is a problem in the city and our concierge has a form in which she only has to add date, time and numberplate of the "offender" before she files it with the police.
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:04
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Re: Question about parking ticket

There is often an obscure aluminium plate mounted next to the parking spaces, explaining that if you park there without permission, you will be fined. This plate is authorised by the local magistrate / judge.

You can also be towed away and charged for the service - VERY expensive!
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:06
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Re: Question about parking ticket

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as far as I know, the police can't hand out fines for parking on private property.
...as far as I know, the owner or renter of the parking space going to the police and the police then fining the culprit, is the only legal way to prevent folk doing it again and again. 'Private' parking places are just too convenient for those who need to park for an hour or so, or a day or so, or every weekend - and, without the danger of being fined, it would be much cheaper than paying for a spot oneself.
It is forbidden to 'block the person in' so after one warning the time, place, car number, make, colour etc. goes to the police (maybe, these days, with a photo).
It sounds like a lot of fuss about a little bit of parking and I feel sorry for anyone caught out who really only did it the once and didn't see the notice, but having paid for a spot, one expects to be able to use it.
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:07
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Re: Question about parking ticket

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We have a private parking space and I've lost count of the number of times someone has slipped into it whilst we've been out. Our landlord has a contract with a towing firm but you have to call the police first and they organise the towing. All at the expense of the person that parked their car on your space.

We've been tempted to park in behind them in the past then bugger off into town for the day but I chickened out for fear it might be some kind of criminal offence, so we just let the (very expensive) towing firm have their fun...
About "We've been tempted to park in behind them " It is certainly an offence in Zürich Kanton; probably everywhere!
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:11
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Re: Question about parking ticket

On the other hand there is this app which shows you many private parking places available for temporary use around Zurich.

I read about it before the summer and apparently it's rattling the authorities because the amount of "public" parking is carefully restricted and now all these private parking space renters are throwing a spanner in the carefully controlled works...


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About "We've been tempted to park in behind them " It is certainly an offence in Zürich Kanton; probably everywhere!
I figured as much, it was just tempting because I had a shedload of shopping to unpack and someone had plonked their feckin' Audi in my spot.
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:15
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Re: Question about parking ticket

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On the other hand there is this app which shows you many private parking places available for temporary use around Zurich.

I read about it before the summer and apparently it's rattling the authorities because the amount of "public" parking is carefully restricted and now all these private parking space renters are throwing a spanner in the carefully controlled works...
Love the idea!
My parking spot is centrally located and mostly unused during the day. Wouldn't mind renting it out.
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:20
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Re: Question about parking ticket

It's not bribery. Like taxation, it's demanding money with menaces. It may also be blackmail.
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:48
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Re: Question about parking ticket

The sequence of events was, I found a note on the windshield saying "I own the shop accross the street, bring me 40CHF or I will call the police"
I moved my car right away, walked to the shop and presented my excuses because I usually park close by, was in a hurry and did not pay attention that day.
The guy did not want any apology and asked for the 40CHF or would call the police and have me pay 140CHF. In effect, I had a choice, accept the cheap deal of pay the full price.
I said I was not comfortable with people enforcing the law that way on their own, and I didn't want step into this kind of deal.
I asked if he'd then give the money to the Police? He said no. So I didn't pay him the 40CHF and finally received the 140CHF fine from the police.
There's no proof I was parked there. Just his statement.
The problem is not to be towed away, or pay for my mistakes, the question is, is it legal to leave this kind of note, and ask for money to enforce the law on our own? Maybe it's not bribery, maybe it's blackmailing. Whatever the exact term is.
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:53
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Re: Question about parking ticket

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The problem is not to be towed away, or pay for my mistakes, the question is, is it legal to leave this kind of note, and ask for money to enforce the law on our own? Maybe it's not bribery, maybe it's blackmailing. Whatever the exact term is.

How about calling it rent or a parking fee?
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:55
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Re: Question about parking ticket

OP, I have no idea, I presume the owner was giving you the choice.
BTW you did not mention if the money he asked was less than the fine?

From time to time had have people using our private parking space, they are mostly visiting someone local we know & not a big deal if there is a vacant spot in our road, if not occasionally have had to go to local paid parking for the odd hour or two. In those instants a bit of give and take with our neighbours. Big difference though to City like Zurich, must be horrendous for some people.
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Old 20.08.2013, 14:55
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Re: Question about parking ticket

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The question is, is it legal to leave this kind of note, and ask for money to enforce the law on our own? Maybe it's not bribery, maybe it's blackmailing. Whatever the exact term is.
I'd say the question is much simpler - whether you want to compensate the owner of the space for using it or pay a hefty fine through the police. You chose the latter route and ended up paying 100chf more for the privilege.

Lesson learned, move on.

As for legality, it's difficult to imagine what sort of law he could be breaking by offering you this option, but I imagine that if you chose to park in a private space again and were offered this option, next time you might be much happier to take it.

Oh, and if you don't think he has any evidence (or witnesses) that you were parked there then you can just deny that you were there. If you're _really_ sure he doesn't, that is.

Edit: Oh, and why would you expect him to hand the money over to the police? It's his space, and their involvement is a question of enforcing his rights, not enforcing 'the law'.
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Old 20.08.2013, 15:00
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Re: Question about parking ticket

Did you ask for a receipt?
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Old 20.08.2013, 15:13
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Re: Question about parking ticket

What you should have done is said in an indignant voice "Do you KNOW who I am?"
When he replies "No", just walk away .
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Old 20.08.2013, 16:27
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Re: Question about parking ticket

Parking is becoming more and more of a problem and I have been guilty of stopping somewhere five minutes to use a cash machine, just to have the owner turn up. Most are a bit annoyed but nice enough and I would never block a private space for any more than those five minutes as it's essentially stealing.

We have three visitor parking spaces for our 27 apartments that we each bought, so essentially we also paid for those three visitor spaces, the approximately 50 rental apartments in the other two buildings have two visitor spaces and the four businesses on the ground floor each have one parking space, plus there is one disabled spot. There are some people who are just taking the mick, including one car that is here at least 50% of the time, so we have applied for the sign from the judge, which costs a fortune, by the way.

However, as with the situation described by the OP, I am not sure who gets the money from any fines and how exactly we can differentiate actual visitors (in my books, that is someone who does not have their own key and/or is not here on more than one full day of each week). With a private spot, it's clearer who gets a fine, with visitor spots, who qualifies as visitors? Since the other buildings have much less space, one of which is almost permanently occupied by this one car, their visitors often park in our spaces. So we are reduced to playing "parking Gestapo" when we see someone who just parked in our spots walking off to a different building. I tend to go along the lines of "I don't care as long as everyone has space", except when people take disabled spots.

What annoys me is that you as the parking owner are the one who is most likely to end up out of pocket or having to prove that the other person did wrong. Considering you pay upwards of 150 francs for a spot in Zurich, you should be able to just send a picture of the wrongly parked car somewhere and have the fine issued automatically. The police should come up with an app for that, one where you can't manipulate the photos and there is a time stamp. Would save them making a trip over a petty thing and it would act as a much stronger deterrent against rogue parking.
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Old 20.08.2013, 16:43
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Re: Question about parking ticket

Many moons ago, when we were renting, my wife happened to park in one of the visitor spaces for our own appartment building whilst dropping off something fto a neighbour. She was only there for 5 - 10 mins, but came back to find a parking ticket issued by our own concierge, who had recognised our number plate, knowing we had a paid for space in the underground car park. When challenged about it he said rules were rules etc., etc. We eventually ended up paying the 30.- or something to avoid the hassle.
I think the fine went to the commune, IIRC.
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