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Old 06.10.2013, 19:52
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Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

Hi all,
Despite I have been looking around the Forum, and make many searches, I didn't find a right answer for this situation, so I will appreciate if anyone can help.
Last August we, my wife and I, had to go to Frankfurt with her car. While I was driving I am supposed to speed at the Autobahn at 161 km/h in a speed limit zone of 120. We receive last friday a letter from the police addressed to my wife, with a photo attached, were are requesting name and address of the driver.
I'm not rebating or challenging the facts, because I have to believe in what the Police says, and I will take full responsibility, but I have 2 questions:
1. As I read they will make a fine, take 3 points of the drivers license and a month ban. It will be know by the Swiss Traffic Police?
2. If yes, how it will affect my drivers license here?
Thanks in advance.
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Old 06.10.2013, 20:00
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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Hi all,
Despite I have been looking around the Forum, and make many searches, I didn't find a right answer for this situation, so I will appreciate if anyone can help.
Last August we, my wife and I, had to go to Frankfurt with her car. While I was driving I am supposed to speed at the Autobahn at 161 km/h in a speed limit zone of 120. We receive last friday a letter from the police addressed to my wife, with a photo attached, were are requesting name and address of the driver.
I'm not rebating or challenging the facts, because I have to believe in what the Police says, and I will take full responsibility, but I have 2 questions:
1. As I read they will make a fine, take 3 points of the drivers license and a month ban. It will be know by the Swiss Traffic Police?
2. If yes, how it will affect my drivers license here?
Thanks in advance.
Swiss licenses don't have points..........
It's possible that the Swiss will take over the case & the fine will be very high.
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Old 06.10.2013, 20:21
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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I have 2 questions:
1. As I read they will make a fine, take 3 points of the drivers license and a month ban. It will be know by the Swiss Traffic Police?
2. If yes, how it will affect my drivers license here?
Thanks in advance.
Pay the fine. They will pursue you for it, so just pay it.

They will remove the points from a theoretical German licence, such that if you lost them all (12, I think) or if, as in this case, they impose a ban as well, that ban only applies to driving in Germany. It will have no effect whatsoever on your Swiss Licence, and the Swiss driving authorities won't know about it.

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Swiss licenses don't have points..........
It's possible that the Swiss will take over the case & the fine will be very high.
Only through a civil process of debt recovery, and any extra charges would only be for admin fees etc. It cannot be taken on as a driving offence in the Swiss courts.
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Old 06.10.2013, 20:23
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

Is the identity of the driver clear from the photo ?
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Old 06.10.2013, 20:32
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

Well the problem appears to be that they had established the infraction, but did not set yet the fine amount, and are requesting the identity of the driver, so it seems that we have to "disclose" the name and address of the driver, so then they will set the fine and punishment.
The photo is very clear, you can see that there is a man driving (the face), and that is not the owner (a woman).
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Old 06.10.2013, 20:38
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

First off, don't worry.

Write them back and tell them it was you. Pay the fine and they will ask you to send them your Swiss license. While technically you do not have to do this, they only want it so that they can affix a sticker to the back stating that you may not drive in D for the period of the one month ban. They will then send back your license and you will still be able to drive in CH.
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Old 06.10.2013, 20:43
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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First off, don't worry.

Write them back and tell them it was you. Pay the fine and they will ask you to send them your Swiss license. While technically you do not have to do this, they only want it so that they can affix a sticker to the back stating that you may not drive in D for the period of the one month ban. They will then send back your license and you will still be able to drive in CH.
First, thanks, to you and anybody else which spend some time to answer my question. I have an additional problem: I'm just transforming/converting my non EU license in an Swiss one, so the Canton Police have it now, and I have to wait until they release the Swiss one.
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Old 06.10.2013, 20:51
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

The Germans are pretty reasonable folk. You'll likely have your CH license by the time they send you the fine etc. If not, pay the fine and explain the situation. BTW, you should also ensure your membership in either TCS or ACS is paid up - both of these organizations have lawyers that can advise you on this type of thing. Much safer than getting your legal advice from the internets.

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Old 06.10.2013, 20:53
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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First off, don't worry.

Write them back and tell them it was you. Pay the fine and they will ask you to send them your Swiss license. While technically you do not have to do this, they only want it so that they can affix a sticker to the back stating that you may not drive in D for the period of the one month ban. They will then send back your license and you will still be able to drive in CH.
I don't think there's any obligation to send your Swiss licence. To keep track of your 'points' they will establish a theoretical German licence which would eb traceable should you be stopped again driving in Germany. All else apart you should have your licence with you at all times when driving, so I would refuse to send it on this basis if nothing else.
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Old 06.10.2013, 21:19
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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I don't think there's any obligation to send your Swiss licence. To keep track of your 'points' they will establish a theoretical German licence which would eb traceable should you be stopped again driving in Germany. All else apart you should have your licence with you at all times when driving, so I would refuse to send it on this basis if nothing else.
Nope. Flensburg has enough to do keeping track of all the Germans breaking the law. They don't keep any theoretical records on foreign drivers (although these days, who knows who is watching...). If you have some proof that they keep track of some theoretical phantom license, I'd like to see it.

My comments, BTW, are based on firsthand experience. As I said in my original post, you technically do not have to send them your license. Given the circumstances, objecting to sending them your license on the basis that you won't be able to drive for the week you do not have it, well that's just asking for trouble.
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Old 06.10.2013, 22:55
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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Nope. Flensburg has enough to do keeping track of all the Germans breaking the law. They don't keep any theoretical records on foreign drivers (although these days, who knows who is watching...). If you have some proof that they keep track of some theoretical phantom license, I'd like to see it.

My comments, BTW, are based on firsthand experience. As I said in my original post, you technically do not have to send them your license. Given the circumstances, objecting to sending them your license on the basis that you won't be able to drive for the week you do not have it, well that's just asking for trouble.
Its also a defence to the cops here to explain why you don't have your license on you, namely that you had to send it to the authorities.

Obviously having proof why is useful.
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Old 07.10.2013, 07:34
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

Step 1: Tell the cops who the driver is and that you are ready to pay the fine.

Step 2: Pay 160 EUR.

Step 3: Celebrate that this happened in Germany and not Switzerland where the same would have got you in front of a judge, probably a four digit number in legal costs alone as well as probably some 15 days of your income as a fine!
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Old 07.10.2013, 08:58
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

Step 0: Know the Swiss law, in paritcular Art. 16 c bis SVG which says you will face at least a one month license suspension.
Art. 16cbis1

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Führerausweisentzug nach einer Widerhandlung im Ausland
1 Nach einer Widerhandlung im Ausland wird der Lernfahr- oder der Führerausweis entzogen, wenn
a.im Ausland ein Fahrverbot verfügt wurde; undb.die Widerhandlung nach den Artikeln 16b und 16c als mittelschwer oder schwer zu qualifizieren ist.2 Bei der Festlegung der Entzugsdauer sind die Auswirkungen des ausländischen Fahrverbotes auf die betroffene Person angemessen zu berücksichtigen. Die Mindestentzugsdauer darf unterschritten werden. Die Entzugsdauer darf bei Personen, die im Administrativmassnahmenregister (Art. 104b) nicht verzeichnet sind, die am Begehungsort im Ausland verfügte Dauer des Fahrverbots nicht überschreiten.
Step 1: Do not tell the cops who drove. There is no obligatition to do as you are close relative.

Step 2: Wait until 3 Months since the infraction passed. (This part is a little tricky, because at certain steps in the prosecution the timer my stop or reset. I am no so good with German law.)

Step 3: Celebrate that you out witted the system.
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Old 07.10.2013, 09:08
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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Step 0: Know the Swiss law, in paritcular Art. 16 c bis SVG which says you will face at least a one month license suspension.
Art. 16cbis1



Step 1: Do not tell the cops who drove. There is no obligatition to do as you are close relative.

Step 2: Wait until 3 Months since the infraction passed. (This part is a little tricky, because at certain steps in the prosecution the timer my stop or reset. I am no so good with German law.)

Step 3: Celebrate that you out witted the system.
You forgot step 4: avoid Germany by car for a couple of years
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Old 07.10.2013, 09:12
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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Step 1: Do not tell the cops who drove. There is no obligatition to do as you are close relative.

Step 2: Wait until 3 Months since the infraction passed.

Step 3: Celebrate that you out witted the system.
Sorry, but I'll ask directly: Do you have any idea about German traffic laws and the repercussions you face if you do not comply? Simply put - if the OP's wife plans on driving ever again in Germany would she better comply.

Yes, you can get out of the case by refusing to identify the driver. No punishment... but then? I know cases where a driver did similar for a worse case where the punishment was way over 160 EUR. What happened next was that the driver received a court order forcing him to keep a "Fahrtenbuch" - a record of who was driving the car at any time including name, date, place and kms on the cars clock to make sure that there are no missing drives... This court order was in the cops computer and in any future traffic control was the driver asked to present the book. Failing to do so or not keeping it absolutely accurate had a very steep fine attached to it as the cops don't like to get screwed around with twice.

I would rather man up and pay 160 Eur... but that's probably just me.
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Old 07.10.2013, 09:26
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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Sorry, but I'll ask directly: Do you have any idea about German traffic laws and the repercussions you face if you do not comply? Simply put - if the OP's wife plans on driving ever again in Germany would she better comply.
A Fahrtenbuch (for Germany only) for aprox. 6 months plus a EUR 50 cost vs. 1 month driving ban plus EUR 160.

It is up to the OP which one he likes more. I do not recommend one over the other.
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Old 07.10.2013, 09:28
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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You forgot step 4: avoid Germany by car for a couple of years

Why? Germany is not Switzerland. After 3 Months they can not prosecute the case any longer. (Whereas in Switzerland they have up to 3 years)
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Old 07.10.2013, 09:28
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

It seems odd to me that the German police are talking about a one-month ban plus 3 points on the (non-existent German) licence. The idea is that points accumulate to produce a ban/suspension. Once 12 points accumulate, the licence is suspended -- not for 3 points. Is a ban plus points the usual deal?

Secondly, the offence doesn't seem that serious in the context of German autobahns. Yes, I'm aware that some (actually, most) of the autobahns in Germany are restricted to 120 km/h, but would a ban be the usual punishment for this level of speeding?
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Old 07.10.2013, 09:38
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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Secondly, the offence doesn't seem that serious in the context of German autobahns. Yes, I'm aware that some (actually, most) of the autobahns in Germany are restricted to 120 km/h, but would a ban be the usual punishment for this level of speeding?

Yes it is, see 11.1.17 here in the official details:

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bk.../anhang_9.html

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Hi all,
Last August we, my wife and I, had to go to Frankfurt with her car. While I was driving I am supposed to speed at the Autobahn at 161 km/h in a speed limit zone of 120.
Actually it is 11.1.8
41 km/h over the limit on Autobahn (außerhalb geschlossener Ortschaften)! EUR 240 plus 1 Month ban.
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Old 07.10.2013, 10:12
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Re: Receiving a letter from german Traffic Police

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A Fahrtenbuch (for Germany only) for aprox. 6 months plus a EUR 50 cost vs. 1 month driving ban plus EUR 160.

It is up to the OP which one he likes more. I do not recommend one over the other.
Where did you get the bold part from? At the end of the period you have to document do you need to show the book to the court that made the order. Failing to do so or having an incomplete one carries a fine of 100 EUR.

Thanks for the link, I was surprised that it is by default only 6 months as I am sure that the guy I know had to do it for over a year... I guess this depends on the severity of the case (41kmh too much being at the lower end vs anything drunk driving or accident related).
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