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  #81  
Old 29.12.2014, 17:54
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

I had to use the crossing last week, what a load of bollocks, the queues where huge, the barriers on the kent side are still there, no idea why?? So the cameras have time to read your plate?? Anyway it was a joke

I refused to pay so time will tell what happens next. Over an hour in traffic Jams and they expect me to pay, dream on
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Old 29.12.2014, 17:55
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

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The Crossing is probably the most expensive toll for distance covered in the whole of Europe is my guess.
Mont Blanc and St Bernard tunnels beat it by a large margin... they're close to 4/km...
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  #83  
Old 29.12.2014, 21:14
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

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Did it, took me exactly 3 mins (including trying to find my credit card)
Before you had to just reach in your pocket, and chuck a coin in a bin. 5 seconds maybe.
Now you have to think and plan it, find time to look up where is that website, spend 3 mins making the payment etc.
It's just extra aggrovation, and something else that needs thinking about, and taking our time to save some companies time and expense.
BEFORE : the 2 was used to pay for building the bridge and included funding the toll staff etc to make it easy. Those that wanted to set up an account for rapid transit could do so.
AFTER: The 2.50 isnt used to pay for the bridge anymore, and they save on the staff costs (and jobs), and we get the hassle. It is run by SANEF the company that runs the French motorways tolls, but can you use thier tags - no. WTF. Why not just one lane with a tag reader as well as ANPR. Tag - mark reg no as PAID.
Progress? For the government yes, for us no.
Same with lots of things done online - before took a few minutes and someone else did the work, now we spend ages setting up accounts, paying entering data etc to save the companies we are paying the effort and maximise their profits.
Grrr. umpy.
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Last edited by Glendyn; 29.12.2014 at 21:39. Reason: typos
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  #84  
Old 29.12.2014, 21:38
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

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Before you had to just reach in your pocket, and chuck a coin in a bin. 5 seconds maybe.
Now you have to think and plan it, find time to look up where is that website, spend 3 mins making the payment etc.
It's just extra aggrovation, and something else that needs thinking about, and taking our time to save some companies time and expense.
BEFORE : the 2 was used to pay for building the bridge and included funding the toll staff etc to make it easy. Those that wanted to set up an account for rapid transit could do so.
AFTER: The 2.50 isnt used to pay for the bridge anymore, and they save on the staff costs (and jobs), and we get the hassle. It is run by SANEF the company that runs the French motorways tolls, but can you use thier tags - no. WTF. Why not just one lane with a tag reader as well as ANPR. Tag - mark reg no as PAID.
Progress? For the government yes, for us no.
Same with lots of things done online - before took a few minites and someone else did the work, now we spend ages setting up accounts, paying enting data etc to save the companies we are paying the effort and maximise their profits.
Grrr. umpy.
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There is also this I found from a link in the original post.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20120810121037/http://www.highways.gov.uk/our-road-network/managing-our-roads/highways-agency-areas/area-teams/area-5/the-dartford-thurrock-river-crossing/european-electronic-tolling-service

This seems to indicate that shortly you should be able to use a French Liber-T tag to get through the Dartford Crossing. Which also seems to be hinted at on SANEF UK's website under their FAQ's.

3.8. Can I use the tag in the UK at Dartford/ M6 toll/ Severn Crossing?
Not yet! But watch this space....

https://www.saneftolling.co.uk/support/faq

The question is do the regional highway maintenance companies in France like SANEF, APRR, etc, constitute private service providers? Or will you need a separate account through another company to get the benefit? At the moment the APRR site says it won't work outside France.

https://espaceclient.aprr.fr/faq/Pages/QuestionReponse.aspx?question=1731

If they were going to change it I would have thought they'd be plugging the benefits to their French customers by now.
There is an EU directive for a European wide tagging system.

"EETS (European Electronic Tolling Service) is a service being introduced as a result of EC Directive 2004/52. The service will allow drivers to drive on a wide range of tolled infrastructure across Europe using a single payment account and one piece of electronic equipment if they wish to do so."

Keep watching.
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  #85  
Old 29.12.2014, 21:43
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

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The service will allow drivers to drive on a wide range of tolled infrastructure across Europe using a single payment account and one piece of electronic equipment if they wish to do so."

Keep watching.
The service will allow governments to charge on a wide range of infrastructure across Europe, claiming its simple as there is a single payment account and one piece of electronic equipment, if they wish to do so.
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  #86  
Old 29.12.2014, 21:55
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

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There is an EU directive for a European wide tagging system.

"EETS (European Electronic Tolling Service) is a service being introduced as a result of EC Directive 2004/52. The service will allow drivers to drive on a wide range of tolled infrastructure across Europe using a single payment account and one piece of electronic equipment if they wish to do so."

Keep watching.
THe next sentence after the one you posted says:
Quote:
The Directive requires Member States to ensure that tolled undertakings within the scope of the Directive are in a position to allow EETS providers to operate on their infrastructure by October 2012 for heavy goods vehicles and October 2014 for all vehicles.
Keep watching until last October?
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Old 29.12.2014, 22:24
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

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I had to use the crossing last week, what a load of bollocks, the queues where huge, the barriers on the kent side are still there, no idea why?? So the cameras have time to read your plate?? Anyway it was a joke

I refused to pay so time will tell what happens next. Over an hour in traffic Jams and they expect me to pay, dream on
I forgot to pay! Will wait to see if the twats can do the Europe wide tracking.
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  #88  
Old 29.12.2014, 22:27
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

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THe next sentence after the one you posted says:

Keep watching until last October?
Which is why SANEF UK has that answer in its FAQs. After all, how many EU directives have actually come into force on time? They'll get there - eventually.
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  #89  
Old 29.12.2014, 23:36
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

Just went through this afternoon - very confusing as there was no information on the approach regarding how to pay - however further online investigation states that payment can be made up to midnight the following day. Failure to pay results in 70 pound fine.
Interesting to read people on EF stating that they have no intention paying - the same EF that fall over themselves to chastise newcomers on the EF stating that they could try to avoid payments in Switzerland.
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  #90  
Old 29.12.2014, 23:47
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from late November 2014

TBH I. Would be VERY surprised if they chase it up. yes it's a pcn but of doesn't chase those for more serious cases so.for a toll crossing.. nah.

But it's not valid here anyway.

Worst would be a letter with some red ink. The first question /statement will be...

The driver denies the debt, but irrespective .. Under which Swiss law or uk Swiss bilateral agreement is the driver required to pay?


Note it's always 'the driver' and not 'I'
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  #91  
Old 30.12.2014, 01:43
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

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I had to use the crossing last week, what a load of bollocks, the queues where huge, the barriers on the kent side are still there, no idea why?? So the cameras have time to read your plate?? Anyway it was a joke

I refused to pay so time will tell what happens next. Over an hour in traffic Jams and they expect me to pay, dream on
I crossed on Xmas eve @10am and flew straight through. I will return back this Friday so will see if I have any issues, but don't think the barriers are there to read your plates. The same system exists in the central London charging zone and it's all passive monitoring.

Oh well it's something I have to do once, maybe twice a year.. Hardly worth becoming an international fugitive over
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Old 30.12.2014, 08:47
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

Most of what I'm reading here seems to be "the system is changing, and I don't like it", which would pretty much the reaction if they decided in a few years to go back to barriers and tollbooths.

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Before you had to just reach in your pocket, and chuck a coin in a bin. 5 seconds maybe.
Now you have to think and plan it, find time to look up where is that website, spend 3 mins making the payment etc.
But that's not the case. For residents who are regular users, you just set up an account. Job done, no fuss. For foreigners, before, you had to make sure you had the right change in local currency. After, go to shop the next day, or go online or phone. Much more convenient, I'd say.

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TBH I. Would be VERY surprised if they chase it up. yes it's a pcn but of doesn't chase those for more serious cases so.for a toll crossing.. nah.

But it's not valid here anyway.

Worst would be a letter with some red ink. The first question /statement will be...

The driver denies the debt, but irrespective .. Under which Swiss law or uk Swiss bilateral agreement is the driver required to pay?


Note it's always 'the driver' and not 'I'
Debts incurred in the UK can be chased to Switzerland. First they'd have to get a county court judgement for the debt. Then they'd have to apply to a Swiss judge to get it enforced.

I can't see it happening.
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  #93  
Old 30.12.2014, 09:19
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

I don't mind paying tolls, the vignette is fantastic value, motorways here are great, I always use the French toll roads, never had a hold up (ok 5 minutes at the booths) in 10 years, roads are great. Dartford has always been a joke, think I was using it at around 11pm and spent over an hour in the jam - why? Because the barriers are still there with huge cameras in front of them it was no quicker then the toll booths of yesteryear. And as for easier to pay, come off it, the French booths let you use cash, cards, tags or pay at the booth with a human. Having to stop at a shop or go online is a total joke, I was towing a trailer so what plate am I supposed to register?? It hasn't made things better, quicker or easier it's just making the gov and the company running it more money. All the while us Brits accept companies and the government screwing us up the arse they will continue to do it, they are not even bothering to try and sugar coat it now, lol it's a congestion charge, oh and pay a lot more, and give us all your personal data lol and like lemmings we all just do it.
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Old 30.12.2014, 09:40
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

LOts on here saying taht it won't be followed up and risk not paying. Maybe, maybe not. Is it worth the risk for 2.50? I don't like it but why test the system and get 2.50 converted to 70 plus, then more. Just so people are aware here is what is quoted in a statement about the Dartford crossing:

Penalty charge or fine levels
Under Section 173 of the Transport Act 2000:
A person guilty of an offence under subsection (5) or (6) is liable on summary conviction to—
(a) a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or
(b) Imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or to both.


Penalty charge or fine processes:

Section 173(6) of the Transport Act 2000 it is a criminal offence not to pay the Charge.

Channels and payment means for penalty charges or fines:

Offenders may be pursued through the courts
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  #95  
Old 30.12.2014, 10:39
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

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I don't mind paying tolls, the vignette is fantastic value, motorways here are great, I always use the French toll roads, never had a hold up (ok 5 minutes at the booths) in 10 years, roads are great. Dartford has always been a joke, think I was using it at around 11pm and spent over an hour in the jam - why? Because the barriers are still there with huge cameras in front of them it was no quicker then the toll booths of yesteryear. And as for easier to pay, come off it, the French booths let you use cash, cards, tags or pay at the booth with a human. Having to stop at a shop or go online is a total joke, I was towing a trailer so what plate am I supposed to register?? It hasn't made things better, quicker or easier it's just making the gov and the company running it more money. All the while us Brits accept companies and the government screwing us up the arse they will continue to do it, they are not even bothering to try and sugar coat it now, lol it's a congestion charge, oh and pay a lot more, and give us all your personal data lol and like lemmings we all just do it.
a) the barriers are going, just going to take a few months to remove them all. That's why there's still work going on until April next year.

b) the system is basically designed for British vehicles and of course if you tow a trailer in Britain it has the same number plate as the car. If in doubt I would register the car's plate as that's the one they'll want to know about.
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Old 30.12.2014, 11:05
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

The southbound barriers have gone (although the road is still a mess), it's just the northbound ones that are still there and causing hold-ups.

It's true that the roadside information as you approach the crossing is extremely poor - I only knew about the new system because of this thread. All I saw on the road itself was one sign saying "New toll system", with no more details. As you leave the bridge going southwards, there is a sign saying "Find us online and pay by midnight tomorrow", which also doesn't help a great deal (I'm imagining my parents trying to work out what to do).

The upside is of course that if travelling alone, you no longer have to stop the car, get out and walk round to the toll booth on the "wrong" side to pay, while imagining all the people thinking "bloody foreigner" in the cars waiting behind.
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  #97  
Old 30.12.2014, 13:18
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

Over one million cars registered for the crossing already

http://www.courier.co.uk/million-dri...ail/story.html

300,000 of the first 2 million crossings have not been paid for according to BBC news today

Last edited by Deep Purple; 30.12.2014 at 23:21. Reason: Extra info.
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  #98  
Old 31.12.2014, 12:50
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from late November 2014

Apparently 13500 a day are not paying..
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Old 31.12.2014, 13:03
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

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Over one million cars registered for the crossing already

http://www.courier.co.uk/million-dri...ail/story.html

300,000 of the first 2 million crossings have not been paid for according to BBC news today
FTFY

Over one million vehicles registered for the crossing already

Anything with 4+ wheels basically.
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Old 01.01.2015, 22:14
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Re: Dartford Crossing - toll payment changes from October 2014

Blimey! I take it back. 2.50 looks cheap compared to crossing the Severn into Wales.

From Thursday (1st Jan 2015), cars pay 10p more at 6.50, small goods vehicles and small buses face a 30p rise to 13.10 while heavy goods vehicles and buses will have to pay 19.60, up from 19.20.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-sou...wales-30643536
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