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  #21  
Old 01.11.2014, 17:06
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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that is a good point! usually US imports have yellow turn signals and reflectors. my former girlfriend, a bmw sales-rep used to point that out on the highway while driving "look that BMW x6 has yellow turn signals, its a US import" good catch!
Hmm...Scuse me but isn't yellow indicator normal in Europe? Red rear indicators are from the US....
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Old 03.11.2014, 12:51
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

I'm looking at buying one of these at the moment. They're cheap for what they are because of the terrible fuel economy, running costs, high car tax, most people think they're ugly, and the fact they made a lot of them. If you don't do many miles though and it's just a weekend car for trips to the mountains it's amazing value for money.

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So there is a recurring theme in this thread regarding the stereo in this contraption, is it a super duper or super cr@p stereo, what's the story?
The ad says it doesn't work properly. The stereo/nav in these isn't very good though so if you're thinking of swapping it out completely it might not be an issue, but it will cost CHF1,000s to do so.

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Hmm...Scuse me but isn't yellow indicator normal in Europe? Red rear indicators are from the US....
Not for this model. That's a very good spot. Between that and the nasty leather I'd stay away.

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I don't see the point of buying cars like this (old, high mileage, formerly expensive). There is simply no way to run them on a budget after 100k km. The clutch goes? Bang, 4k CHF out the window. The brakes need replacement? Another 4k. The engine develops issues. Oooh, there's no telling there, but it is not unlikely to have to declare the car totalled. The yearly costs of running an almost 10 year old car like that are going to be half the purchase price.

Sure, you can get ownership of a formerly expensive car for (relative) peanuts, but as bigfujitsu pointed it out, service and maintenance is going to be hilariously expensive. I'd say, if you can't afford to pay at least 60k-100k for a car like this, you can't afford it for 16k either.
100km isn't high miles for a car like this, and the non-S versions are regarded as reliable with little chance of a complete engine or gearbox failure. You're also overestimating the running costs. You'll be hit with regular 1k bills but not regular 4k bills, and you'll be servicing it at an independent using non-OEM parts and not a Porsche main dealer paying main dealer labour and parts prices.

Including options these were 150k-200k new so you could buy one for 20k-30k and spend 1k a month on it for 5 years and you'd still be paying less than half the new price! In reality if you drive ~10,000kms per year you'll have entire years where you don't get a big bill. The service schedule on these is a small service every 2 years and a big one every 4 so the scheduled maintenance won't break the bank either.
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  #23  
Old 03.11.2014, 12:58
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

simple, running costs

if you have to worry how much this thing will cost to fix / run then you can't afford it
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  #24  
Old 03.11.2014, 14:18
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

On the flip side, I absolutely love cars like this. Big, thirsty, and expensive to maintain. They lose a fortune in depreciation.

I can afford the running costs, but I can't stomach the depreciation. So I buy one that's a few years old, and get to drive a car that cost its original owner the thick-end of six figures for a small fraction of that price.

Would I rather drive a CHF30k Golf with CHF1k in maintenance each year, or a fully-loaded Audi A8 from a few years ago which I can pick up for CHF15k. Sure, it might cost CHF3k to service, but it'll be just as good as it was when it was new and a lot more comfortable than the Golf. When I do come to eventually sell it, it should also return a lot more of the initial investment.
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Old 03.11.2014, 14:36
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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On the flip side, I absolutely love cars like this. Big, thirsty, and expensive to maintain. They lose a fortune in depreciation.

I can afford the running costs, but I can't stomach the depreciation. So I buy one that's a few years old, and get to drive a car that cost its original owner the thick-end of six figures for a small fraction of that price.

Would I rather drive a CHF30k Golf with CHF1k in maintenance each year, or a fully-loaded Audi A8 from a few years ago which I can pick up for CHF15k. Sure, it might cost CHF3k to service, but it'll be just as good as it was when it was new and a lot more comfortable than the Golf. When I do come to eventually sell it, it should also return a lot more of the initial investment.
My thoughts exactly Does it make me village idiot as well? (no offence, just joking )
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  #26  
Old 03.11.2014, 14:44
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

Thirsty cars generally only work for people doing lower KMs per year - and/or when they do a big journey are happy to pay the extra.

Compare 3 cars: A nice 15 year old V8 barge (15l/100km); a modern but now new 6-pot (10l/100km) and a nearly new diesel (5l/100km).

For each 100km driven the cost is 26.40, 17.60 and 9.05 respectively (note diesel has a higher per l cost)

If you clock 500-600km per month you are looking at 150, 100 and 50chf per month (give or take). With those distances - each car would be filled up once a month - so although the V8 costs a lot to fill - it is once a month, 5chf per day - no big deal!

Pschologically people visualise fueling costs far better than they do overall costs. That 15k barge (worth 5k at the end of 4 years) may cost more to fuel but with just 10k depreciation it'll end up being cheaper to run that a 40k new car with 25k deprecaition (over the same period).

15k buys a lot of fuel!!

That doesn't mean all V8 barges are built equally and if you want to do regular 1,000km trips I'd leave them on the forecourt and opt for 6-pot diesel instead
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Old 01.03.2016, 08:06
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

Cheap as chips:https://en.comparis.ch/carfinder/det..._To_Non_CF_App

I'd have it in another life.
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  #28  
Old 01.03.2016, 10:18
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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Cheap as chips:https://en.comparis.ch/carfinder/det..._To_Non_CF_App

I'd have it in another life.
... if you were a masochist in that life. Have you ever sat in one? The build quality is atrocious. I'm fairly sure those things are made in North Korea. (It's a 2012 Jeep Wrangler 2.8 CRD Sport, anticipating the time when the link goes dead).
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  #29  
Old 01.03.2016, 10:20
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

No I was never in one but similarly specc'd & aged cars don't go that low in price.
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  #30  
Old 01.03.2016, 10:21
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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No I was never in one but similarly specc'd & aged cars don't go that low in price.
How much was it? The listing has been removed already.

I don't care how cheap it is, Jeep Wranglers of that vintage will always be... cheap.
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  #31  
Old 01.03.2016, 10:25
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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... if you were a masochist in that life. Have you ever sat in one? The build quality is atrocious. I'm fairly sure those things are made in North Korea. (It's a 2012 Jeep Wrangler 2.8 CRD Sport, anticipating the time when the link goes dead).
I have! I borrowed one to move house with (with a bloody great trailer on the back). As a tow vehicle it is superb - sure the engine is rough and the cabin on the basic side of prehistoric but it will pull up a 1 in 10 slope with 2000kg hanging off the back any day of the week - and will chug along the motorway at 100kmh until the tank runs dry.

As a car they are rubbish. As a functional tool they are brilliant.
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  #32  
Old 01.03.2016, 10:41
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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I have! I borrowed one to move house with (with a bloody great trailer on the back). As a tow vehicle it is superb - sure the engine is rough and the cabin on the basic side of prehistoric but it will pull up a 1 in 10 slope with 2000kg hanging off the back any day of the week - and will chug along the motorway at 100kmh until the tank runs dry.

As a car they are rubbish. As a functional tool they are brilliant.
Exactly.

I rented one in Canada for a week and a half over Christmas. It was awesome at ploughing through snowdrifts and doing doughnuts on ice-covered parking lots (in 4WD!). But it was horrendous at everything else. One of the door hinges is a leather strap; that should last well. The plastic parts are made from recycled toothpicks and the carpet was -- oh, wait, there wasn't any. And gaps... No need to install a cat flap on this vehicle. At anything over 100 km/h, my life was at such great risk that I needed to double my life insurance. But after filling up about seven times per day, even at Canadian petrol prices, I had to cancel my life insurance to pay for the fuel.

On the plus side, when the inevitable stone kissed the windscreen (the Alberta authorities think that salt on the roads is environmentally damaging; they prefer damage to cars from the grit and football-sized rocks they choose to pour onto their highways in winter), the windscreen naturally cracked right across (instead of just starring a little). As I had declined the excess waiver cover, as always, I had to pay for the replacement (at 5:00 pm on New Year's Eve) myself. It cost CAD 70.00. Basically, it's a flat, rectangular piece of glass. (And they probably go through thousands a year up there.)

Anyway, the car was rubbish, but yes, at low speed, it will go over or through anything.
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  #33  
Old 01.03.2016, 10:46
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

I was determined to hate it when I had it - but in the end I loved that it makes no attempt to be soft/comfortable/pretty. It just gets on doing what it is built to do - drink fuel shift stuff!

The diesel is a million times better than any of the 6-pot petrols - which I am pretty sure have bypass values on the fuel lines - the fuel leaves the tank but only half goes into the engine. Economy can really not be THAT bad for so little grunt!
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Old 01.03.2016, 12:16
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

It was chf 12,900.
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Old 01.03.2016, 12:37
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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The diesel is a million times better than any of the 6-pot petrols - which I am pretty sure have bypass values on the fuel lines - the fuel leaves the tank but only half goes into the engine. Economy can really not be THAT bad for so little grunt!
How quickly things change, and how quickly we get used to them. Even 8 years ago when I bought my car the idea that a 300ps 3.6 motor in a large car could return better than 10 l/100km (in fact mine's averaged 9.2) was astonishing, and now we can expect that power and even lower consumption from a muchlighter 2 litre lump

Yank tanks seem still to be much slower to adopt new tech, and also have a knack of making it less usable. One trip to the US I had a brand new 2010 (model only released the previous month) Camaro V6 as a rental car. It attracted lots of admiring looks, and sounded well fruity, but when I checked out the spec and saw that it claimed 300 horses I simply could not believe how poorly it was able to use that compared with my humble VW. In all honesty I suspect it of being a deliberate policy to show the 'musclecar' V8 version in a better light by comparison.
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Old 01.03.2016, 12:57
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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How quickly things change, and how quickly we get used to them. Even 8 years ago when I bought my car the idea that a 300ps 3.6 motor in a large car could return better than 10 l/100km (in fact mine's averaged 9.2) was astonishing, and now we can expect that power and even lower consumption from a muchlighter 2 litre lump

Yank tanks seem still to be much slower to adopt new tech, and also have a knack of making it less usable. One trip to the US I had a brand new 2010 (model only released the previous month) Camaro V6 as a rental car. It attracted lots of admiring looks, and sounded well fruity, but when I checked out the spec and saw that it claimed 300 horses I simply could not believe how poorly it was able to use that compared with my humble VW. In all honesty I suspect it of being a deliberate policy to show the 'musclecar' V8 version in a better light by comparison.
I have a "normal" family saloon built in 2009 - with an engine producing well over 500PS - an EU kerbweight of 1960kg - and yet after 2 trips to the mountains (including some more entertaining driving) and 2 weeks of "normal" town driving - it was refilled and averaged 10.4l/100km. (9.9l/100km on the computer).
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Old 01.03.2016, 15:47
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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I have a "normal" family saloon built in 2009 - with an engine producing well over 500PS - an EU kerbweight of 1960kg - and yet after 2 trips to the mountains (including some more entertaining driving) and 2 weeks of "normal" town driving - it was refilled and averaged 10.4l/100km. (9.9l/100km on the computer).

that'll be an RS6 then, no?
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Old 01.03.2016, 15:53
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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that'll be an RS6 then, no?
No
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  #39  
Old 01.03.2016, 15:58
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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I have a "normal" family saloon built in 2009 - with an engine producing well over 500PS - an EU kerbweight of 1960kg - and yet after 2 trips to the mountains (including some more entertaining driving) and 2 weeks of "normal" town driving - it was refilled and averaged 10.4l/100km. (9.9l/100km on the computer).
Is 507 well over 500?
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Old 01.03.2016, 16:12
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Re: Eh... Why is this car cheap as chips?

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Is 507 well over 500?
Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (E60 M5)

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