Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01.11.2014, 21:35
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 452
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 325 Times in 211 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
speeding ticket from Italy

I just got something in the mail that is dated for June 2013. We went on holidays and apparently didn't pay some 5 EUR road tax at the lake Como and now the creditor company wants 12 EUR from us. The whole amount is ridiculous, but:
- why wait 16 months? obviously I don't keep receipts that long.
- I can't really explain how we could jump the road tax as there are booths on every possible highway sections in Italy. if it's not pulling a ticket, then you gotta pay on the spot
- why go after 5 euros, and sell it off to a creditor company, really? I wouldn't think it's worth the money at all (hence, I might think they might just try their luck with this to send it to all foreigners who once passed by)?
- anyone heard of NiviCredit in Florence as a creditor company?

Last edited by user137; 01.11.2014 at 22:03.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01.11.2014, 21:44
Borinquen's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 53
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 37 Times in 18 Posts
Borinquen has no particular reputation at present
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

Nivi is heavily involved in collection of fines originating in European cities from tourists, usually foreign ones that the municipalities would normally write off because of the collection costs. They do these with bulk mailings, hence the investment and effort to collect 12 EUR from you. If they send out enough letters, enough people will fess up and pay for them to make a net profit.

I am not sure that they have any jurisdiction to enforce collection if you just refuse to pay. Additionally, if the letter was not sent to you registered mail, then they have no certainty that you even got the letter.

I am guessing they buy old "uncollectable"s from agencies for pennies on the dollar.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Borinquen for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 01.11.2014, 22:02
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 452
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 325 Times in 211 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

I did some googling in the meantime and found out the following things:
- Nivi Credit has indeed almost always the same pattern (notification after years, petty amounts), most people mention that they are just trying their luck
- in Italy even if you can't pay for technical reasons, the barrier goes up and you get a receipt in Italian, explaining that you will get the check for this at a later time. In this case, the amount is legal and should be paid. Obviously noone has the receipts years after the incident, and most of us will not read the italian comments

What bugs me though is the following:
- mail came in a snail mail directly to my mailbox
- they send you a letter with a personal username and password
- and you can pay online with a credit card
- my plate details are searchable on the internet, so it's a no-brainer to find my address

Seems like most of the phishing emails, just this one came in snail mail. Even checking into this account could justify that I have received the letter, where they could eventually bombard me with anything else on top, so I won't do it. In no circumstances was I going to pay by giving my Credit Card details
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01.11.2014, 22:07
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 362
Groaned at 130 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 273 Times in 144 Posts
bigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeablebigfujitsu is considered knowledgeable
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

Why worry about it? Can they make a negative report on your swiss credit file?
If they send it to switzerland for collection then the kantonspolizei will invite you to pay.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01.11.2014, 22:13
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 452
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 325 Times in 211 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

I could just burn the letter, but it's rather about principles.

Here's a link to an article in German
http://www.srf.ch/konsum/themen/umwe...en-aus-italien

the most important fact is, Police can't stop you you are driving around Italy next time, as these fines are civil debts and not braking the law (I guess you understand what I mean even though the correct legal terms escape me now).
second fact is, only the "skipped" amount is due, they have no right to any extras due to legal costs, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03.11.2014, 15:33
lmerkel's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Corseaux
Posts: 316
Groaned at 9 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 249 Times in 114 Posts
lmerkel has an excellent reputationlmerkel has an excellent reputationlmerkel has an excellent reputationlmerkel has an excellent reputation
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

I wouldn't pay them or give them any of your information. If you are really concerned, next time you cross the border to Italy, stop at the Italian customs/immigration (or any Italian polizia), show them and explain and offer to pay it. Get a receipt and keep receipt and bill with you when driving. Doubtful anyone stopping you in Italy will have a problem, but for evidence if some credit thing happens, you have receipts. Most likely the Italians will laugh at it and say no big deal but will give you a receipt.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank lmerkel for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 03.11.2014, 15:38
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 7,238
Groaned at 480 Times in 409 Posts
Thanked 12,313 Times in 4,913 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

we got a fine in Italy, all the barriers where up on all booths, people where zooming through at warp speed (normal itallian speed) so we had to go through, got to the next booth, explained what happened, and they fined us!! gave us a ticket with all the car details on etc etc

Never paid it, never heard another thing, although we did sell the car shortly after.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03.11.2014, 15:48
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,105
Groaned at 548 Times in 339 Posts
Thanked 8,786 Times in 3,506 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

I'm sure I read somewhere once that Italian road fines have to be presented to the offender within a certain time period (I think it was 6 months) of else they become invalid.

Last edited by Loz1983; 03.11.2014 at 16:35. Reason: Typo
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03.11.2014, 16:32
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 452
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 325 Times in 211 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

Quote:
View Post
I'm sure I read somewhere once that Italian road have to be presented to the offender within a certain time period (I think it was 6 months) of else they become invalid.
this one has a validity of 10 yrs(!), as the linked articles say (I've read this at several places, so seems to be valid).
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03.11.2014, 16:47
kngavl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bärn
Posts: 513
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 449 Times in 206 Posts
kngavl has an excellent reputationkngavl has an excellent reputationkngavl has an excellent reputationkngavl has an excellent reputation
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

Quote:
View Post

Never paid it, never heard another thing, although we did sell the car shortly after.
Well, that's a little excessive don't you think?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03.11.2014, 16:49
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,927
Groaned at 590 Times in 377 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

We are talking about 17 Euros here? With the possibility of being accused of the debt (to a Swiss debt collection company,
and the difficulty of clearing your name) I would pay the €17 and be finished with the problem.

It IS against my principles, but against future hassle, it might be worth paying €17.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03.11.2014, 16:50
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Swissex has become a little unpopularSwissex has become a little unpopular
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

Quote:
View Post
I just got something in the mail that is dated for June 2013. We went on holidays and apparently didn't pay some 5 EUR road tax at the lake Como and now the creditor company wants 12 EUR from us. The whole amount is ridiculous, but:
- why wait 16 months? obviously I don't keep receipts that long.
- I can't really explain how we could jump the road tax as there are booths on every possible highway sections in Italy. if it's not pulling a ticket, then you gotta pay on the spot
- why go after 5 euros, and sell it off to a creditor company, really? I wouldn't think it's worth the money at all (hence, I might think they might just try their luck with this to send it to all foreigners who once passed by)?
- anyone heard of NiviCredit in Florence as a creditor company?

I received the same a month ago. just pay and its finish
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03.11.2014, 16:51
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 452
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 325 Times in 211 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

Quote:
View Post
but against future hassle, it might be worth paying €17.
that's just the exact reason why I don't want to do it blindly.

why is it so hard to clear one's name? if you get a betreibung, you pay it and have yourself removed, isn't it just that?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03.11.2014, 16:59
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,927
Groaned at 590 Times in 377 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

IF you get a Betreibung, and you pay, it is noted that you paid, that is all. You are still listed as once having a bad debt.

IF you are reported as having a bad debt with a private credit agency, you hope they will remove your name...

Search the Forum, there are plenty of stories with unhappy endings.

Either way you pay €17 plus costs. Work it out, it's principles against hassle.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05.06.2017, 11:44
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 452
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 325 Times in 211 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

got another message from yet another creditor company. this time it's 68 francs. still nothing in registered mail. I'm gonna ask my law insurance what they think about it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05.06.2017, 13:26
Mr.Maquiavelo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 282
Groaned at 62 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 201 Times in 100 Posts
Mr.Maquiavelo has no particular reputation at present
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

I got flashed in Milan a month ago in a 50 km/h area ... I was driving between 55 and 60. Should I expect a fine in two years or so for some undetermined amount of money?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05.06.2017, 15:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,556
Groaned at 478 Times in 360 Posts
Thanked 24,509 Times in 11,146 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

Quote:
View Post
We are talking about 17 Euros here? With the possibility of being accused of the debt (to a Swiss debt collection company,
and the difficulty of clearing your name) I would pay the €17 and be finished with the problem.

It IS against my principles, but against future hassle, it might be worth paying €17.
Exactly- we had the same for a section of MWay in Italy when automatic booth was out of order for cardpayments. 4 years and 10 months later (5 years is max). They get an agency to chase unpaid tolls. Just not worth not paying imho, so we did- after checking that it was legit.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 05.06.2017, 16:20
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 452
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 325 Times in 211 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

Quote:
View Post
I got flashed in Milan a month ago in a 50 km/h area ... I was driving between 55 and 60. Should I expect a fine in two years or so for some undetermined amount of money?
I guess it's about 40-50 EUR for anywhere between 5+ and 20+.
Mine came 11 months later (on another incident).
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 25.07.2017, 22:43
fatih.erol's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 357
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 173 Times in 96 Posts
fatih.erol has made some interesting contributions
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

hi.

i have a kind of similar situation. recently, a company named schuldtitel-online ag from switzerland has sent me a bill that mentions some italian motorway toll fee of 2.92 CHF from 11.05.2012, but charging me a total of 60.09 CHF. the bill lists
- fee: 2.92 CHF
- nivicredit processing fee: 8.11 CHF
- legal services fees: 49 CHF

i do not how i could have avoided paying such a fee on the spot, but it is even more ridiculous to demand 20 times the amount five years later without informing me about the original fee for five years.

it looks like nivicredit thinks they did not manage to collect the amount for five years, and passed it to a switzerland-based company, which seems to be very eager.

i tried to contact nivicredit, but did not hear back from them. i sent an email to schuldtitel-online now, and let's see how they will reply.

does anyone have any advice about how to pay the original amount and be done with this?

ps: if the only advice you have is "just pay the whole amount and forget it", please do not deliver it ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 25.07.2017, 23:25
user137's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 452
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 325 Times in 211 Posts
user137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of manyuser137 has earned the respect of many
Re: speeding ticket from Italy

I'm just done with this process. Asking anything else than the original amount is illegal in Switzerland. If you speak German, Google for Verzugschaden and you will find a sample letter.

Once I sent that letter to the Swiss company I got the amount corrected to the original Italian amount. Happy to help in PM if you need.

B@stards, is you ask me.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank user137 for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
como, italy, nivicredit, speeding in italy, speeding ticket




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ever had a speeding ticket in Italy? walterguariento Transportation/driving 31 21.07.2015 13:18
Swiss Speeding Ticket - Pay from UK? formulaonefan Transportation/driving 13 25.06.2014 14:57
Speeding ticket for over-speeding by 1 kph !!!!!!!! Irene N Complaints corner 173 06.11.2013 14:47
Speeding Ticket Pride Of Manchester Transportation/driving 114 22.08.2012 22:59
Speeding Ticket from Germany Killerbob Transportation/driving 26 03.08.2008 20:08


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0