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Old 23.11.2014, 11:31
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Via Sicura - Part II - 2015

The Federal government continues their Via Sicura initiatives to improve road safety (such as daylight running lights) and to crack down on dangerous driving.

As of January 2015, if you cause an accident and you have:

- been drinking (legally drunk)
- unable to drive (any issue which I imagine covers everything from not wearing your glasses to being high/drugged)
- driving too fast

Your insurance company is now REQUIRED to come back to you to have you "participate" in the amount that they have paid out on your behalf (3rd party liability payments).

The article I read did not give any details on the percentage. I imagine that this will be developed via the court system in the first few months of this new system.
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Last edited by Verbier; 23.11.2014 at 11:32. Reason: typo
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Old 23.11.2014, 14:00
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Re: Via Sicura - Part II - 2015

One small clarification:
Not driving too fast, but driving massively too fast. This is always the case if article 90 paragraph 4 of the strassenverkehrsgesetz has been violated, in which case the insurance company must by law take recourse. To what degree is not explicitly mentioned, but since these kinds of overspeeding are considered "grobfahrlässig" I woldn't be surprised if they were to take recourse for 100%.

Massively meaning, if you go more than 70km/h in a 30km/h zone, etc., more than 200 on the Autobahn. See below for the details.

This taking recourse could previously be insured against, but no longer (at least no longer in these cases). Check your insurance contracts, you may have something you want to cancel.

Article 90 paragraphs 3 and 4:
3
Mit Freiheitsstrafe von einem bis zu vier Jahren wird bestraft, wer durch vorsätzliche Verletzung elementarer Verkehrsregeln das hohe Risiko eines Unfalls mit Schwerverletzten oder Todesopfern eingeht, namentlich durch besonders krasse Missachtung der zulässigen Höchstgeschwindigkeit, waghalsiges Überholen oder Teilnahme an einem nicht bewilligten Rennen mit Motorfahrzeugen.

4
Absatz 3 ist in jedem Fall erfüllt, wenn die zulässige Höchstgeschwindigkeit überschritten wird um:
a. mindestens 40 km/h, wo die Höchstgeschwindigkeit höchstens 30 km/h beträgt;
b. mindestens 50 km/h, wo die Höchstgeschwindigkeit höchstens 50 km/h beträgt;
c. mindestens 60 km/h, wo die Höchstgeschwindigkeit höchstens 80 km/h beträgt;
d. mindestens 80 km/h, wo die Höchstgeschwindigkeit mehr als 80 km/h beträgt.
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Old 23.11.2014, 14:52
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Re: Via Sicura - Part II - 2015

If the insurance companies can claw back some of the money they payout, then surely premiums for all us should also go down......
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Old 23.11.2014, 14:56
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Re: Via Sicura - Part II - 2015

I'm not sure what part is new to 2015 - I've always thought that they've always been able to do this. Maybe the compulsion to do so?
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Old 23.11.2014, 16:35
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Re: Via Sicura - Part II - 2015

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I'm not sure what part is new to 2015 - I've always thought that they've always been able to do this. Maybe the compulsion to do so?
The legal obligation to do so is the new bit
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Old 23.11.2014, 16:40
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Re: Via Sicura - Part II - 2015

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The legal obligation to do so is the new bit

The text (DE).

Am 1. Januar 2015 tritt in Kraft:
  • Obligatorischer Rückgriff der Motorfahrzeug-Haftpflichtversicherungen
Bei Schäden, die in angetrunkenem oder fahrunfähigem Zustand oder durch ein Raserdelikt verursacht werden, müssen die Motorfahrzeug-Haftpflichtversicherungen Rückgriff auf die Person nehmen, die den Unfall verursacht hat.

Link: http://www.astra.admin.ch/00638/inde...e&msg-id=51135

From Balois Insurance - measures coming into effect Jan. 1, 2015

FR:http://www.baloisedirect.ch/actualit...cura-2015.html

DE: http://www.baloisedirect.ch/aktuell/...cura-2015.html
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Old 02.12.2014, 12:05
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Via sicura part 2. New rules from 1st January 2015.

I'm sure there is a thread about this somewhere but I can't find it anywhere and I didn't think this info was really relevant to the daytime headlights thread.

We have just received the renewal notice for our car insurance which also gives details of the new rules coming into force in 2015 which allow insurance companies to 'claw back' some if the costs incurred if the driver is deemed to have been responsible in some way.

It says ' The insurer will search to reclaim some costs if the damage was caused whilst the driver was over the legal alcohol limit, was in an unfit state to drive or was driving at excess speed.
40 km/h excess in 30 zone, 50km/h excess in 50 zone, 60 km/h excess in an 80 zone and 80km/h in zones where the limit is 80 km/h or higher.
The nature of the accident and the economic situation of the person will be taken into account.'

So it seems that a minor speeding infraction won't make any difference but major ones will and rightly so. Anybody who drives at 70 km/h in a 30 zone deserves to have the book thrown at them in my opinion.
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Old 02.12.2014, 14:01
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Re: Via sicura part 2. New rules from 1st January 2015.

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60 km/h excess in an 80 zone and 80km/h in zones where the limit is 80 km/h or higher.
That's a bit ambiguous, should the second be only higher than 80?

If I understand correctly, insurers are obliged to seek compensation from their customers in these cases, rather than being allowed to. Is my understanding correct?
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Old 02.12.2014, 14:08
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Re: Via sicura part 2. New rules from 1st January 2015.

Can you get insurance to cover this reclaim?
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Old 02.12.2014, 14:18
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Re: Via sicura part 2. New rules from 1st January 2015.

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That's a bit ambiguous, should the second be only higher than 80?
I think they actually made a mistake. I think the second one should actually say higher than 80 km/h because in reading the letter again the last two both say the same thing.( max limit 80)
I would assume that the last one applies to 100 or 120 zones and the 'claw back' cost thing only comes into force if you were driving at 180 or 200 on the motorway.

I shall query it with the insurance company as the bit I quoted is an amendment to the policy and the letter says to append it to the policy document.

It also says that if your insurance policy already covers you for 'fautes graves' ( gross negligence) then the amendments don't actually apply and nothing changes.

Edit: in reply to the bit you added whilst I was writing my reply and after I quoted you. Yes the wording in the clause does say that they are obliged to do it.

It says in French ' l'assureur est tenu d'excercer un recours si less dommages ont été causées alors que le conducteur se trouver en état d'ébriété ou dans l'incapacité de conduire ou s'il a commis un excès de vitesse.
L'étendue de recours tient compte de la faute et la situation économique de la personne contre laquelle le recours est formé.'
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Old 02.12.2014, 14:26
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Re: Via sicura part 2. New rules from 1st January 2015.

So what's the point of having insurance then?
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Old 02.12.2014, 14:29
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Re: Via sicura part 2. New rules from 1st January 2015.

Via Sicura - Part II - 2015
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Old 02.12.2014, 14:32
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Re: Via sicura part 2. New rules from 1st January 2015.

I put Via Sicura in the search function and it didn't find anything. The search function on here is really cr*p.

I also looked through the first page of threads in the driving forum too.

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So what's the point of having insurance then?
So that you are covered in case you have an accident.

You'd have to be a complete knob to be exceeding those limits, or driving whilst drunk or incapable so as long as you drive normally nothing will change.
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Old 02.12.2014, 14:47
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Re: Via sicura part 2. New rules from 1st January 2015.

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I put Via Sicura in the search function and it didn't find anything. The search function on here is really bad.
At first sight it is rubbish, but recently I learned a trick on here:

Do not type anything, just click on the blue "Search" box

now type in what you are searching for; as an example "via sicura"

then click on the box "Google-powered" ... and "voir la différence"...

http://www.google.com/cse?sitesearch...ura&gsc.page=1
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Old 02.12.2014, 14:51
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Re: Via sicura part 2. New rules from 1st January 2015.

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Can you get insurance to cover this reclaim?
This is Switzerland. What do you think?

The insurers were already able yo claw back these costs if they wanted to and it has always been possible to add supplementary cover to your policy to cover you for this.

The only difference now is that the insurers have to claw back the costs so more people will probably choose to take out the extra cover.
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Old 02.12.2014, 17:24
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Re: Via sicura part 2. New rules from 1st January 2015.

'est tenue de' = have to

And yes, insurance is for bad luck, not stupidity! You can't claim on insurance if you set fire to your own house, can you
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Old 02.12.2014, 17:41
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Re: Via sicura part 2. New rules from 1st January 2015.

I guess you could if they didn't catch you
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