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Old 09.11.2015, 14:02
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What is it with classic Porsches?/ Classic Cars - Future Classics

What is it that attracts people to the old school Porsches and apparently pay huge sums of money for these. A 964 RS would do upwards of CHF250K while a nice 991 C2 is less expensive and a great ride you may use every day.


In fact if you drive those classics, they are actually 'full of character' which is a nice way of saying that they drive awful. Lots of understeer and when you lift off you get the back end wanting to overtake the front. Not to mention the drivetrain and gearbox which needs a 'firm hand'. Huge fun of course but not everyday and not on the road. There should be a 'lunatic' button in the car you may push if you feel a bit 'lunatic'..


Also you have these middle aged men walking around a Singer Porsche arguing who has the best knowledge of old Porsches. Proud to be geeks I imagine. Are these cars just to look at and polish?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM91zICjcNc
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Old 09.11.2015, 14:05
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Re: What is it with classic Porsches

I really like the 356 but for the reason mentioned above, I wouldn't like to own one. If you want to have fun driving you can probably better buy an MX-5.
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Old 09.11.2015, 14:12
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Re: What is it with classic Porsches

I like this thread. I am just about to pick up a used Porsche, but I'm wondering how much it will cost me on yearly maintenance.

Would like to hear how much Porsche owners have spent on maintenance annually on average, and how many kilometres you drive it in a year.

The model I am considering is known to grind up the IMS bearings, and this one has not done it yet. I'm wondering if I should expect it to at some point. I understand it would require a new engine if it happens. Anyone have any experience in preventing it?
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Old 09.11.2015, 14:15
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Re: What is it with classic Porsches

I think I agree on the MX5 but do not fit in them being too tall. The 911 is really nice. I drive a 996 almost every day but they are cheap cars.
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Old 09.11.2015, 14:22
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Re: What is it with classic Porsches

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The model I am considering is known to grind up the IMS bearings, and this one has not done it yet. I'm wondering if I should expect it to at some point. I understand it would require a new engine if it happens. Anyone have any experience in preventing it?


I own a 996 (actually on sale in an other thread). It has done 185K km and did not have the IMS done but runs fine. If you Google IMS bearing you get all these hits of the problems. I guess mine has done a lot of miles without a problem and will continue doing so. I am not bothered. I do have the oil changed regularly and check the filter on little plastics or other debris. The general consensus is to drive the car as if you have stolen it meaning keeping the revs above 2500/3000 (do not do 90kph in 6ed gear).
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Old 09.11.2015, 14:28
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Re: What is it with classic Porsches

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I own a 996 (actually on sale in an other thread). It has done 185K km and did not have the IMS done but runs fine. If you Google IMS bearing you get all these hits of the problems. I guess mine has done a lot of miles without a problem and will continue doing so. I am not bothered. I do have the oil changed regularly and check the filter on little plastics or other debris. The general consensus is to drive the car as if you have stolen it meaning keeping the revs above 2500/3000 (do not do 90kph in 6ed gear).
Couldn't the bearings be replaced during a clutch job? Or is it an overall design problem, and new bearings may just as well go bad?
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Old 09.11.2015, 14:35
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Re: What is it with classic Porsches

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What is it that attracts people to the old school Porsches and apparently pay huge sums of money for these. A 964 RS would do upwards of CHF250K while a nice 991 C2 is less expensive and a great ride you may use every day.
Limited production run
Motorsport heritage
Air cooled

Making a car useable everyday may make it better but it may not make it more desirable. There is a challenge in mastering a car's handling characteristics and the 911 is the classic example of that - especially if you get the nose bobbing. Keep that flat-6 on song to get the best out of it also requires more skill. Sure you can go faster in a 991 but will they drive be more entertaining or engaging?
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Old 09.11.2015, 14:40
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Re: What is it with classic Porsches

The 356 drop head is one of the most beautiful cars ever made. And one day...
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Old 09.11.2015, 17:45
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Classic Cars - Future Classics

How about a thread about Future Classics : what car have you spotted or bought or already own you think might become a (million dollar!) classic?

I start the ball with this 8k franc fiat - 124 Sport Spider from 1972 - this car is surely going up in value (already bought)

Next a Z3 silver automatic, 2.8 liter, currently very low value on autoscout but surely the shape of a future classic?

Or this SL 55 AMG from Mercedes, seems a good contender?
www.autoscout24.ch/3481677

I open the floor...
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Old 09.11.2015, 17:49
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Re: Classic Cars - Future Classics

I like your SL. Not sure it'll ever make it to "classic" status, but it'd be fun trying to find out.

For a guaranteed future classic, you can't go past dodgyken's recommendation. Just don't drive it if you want to preserve its inherent charm (and don't want it to fall apart).
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Old 09.11.2015, 18:01
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Re: Classic Cars - Future Classics

My red MX5 from 91 is almost there!
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Old 09.11.2015, 18:04
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Re: Classic Cars - Future Classics

Don't confuse "old" with "classic".....
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Old 09.11.2015, 18:11
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Re: Classic Cars - Future Classics

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My red MX5 from 91 is almost there!
Its the 90s MG - which is either a good or bad thing depending on who you talk to.

Z3 2.8 isn't that much better - unless it is the breadvan variety - and TBH you need the M of that, and that is already classic with rising prices.

Limited production run is the key to maintaining value and future classic status. Both Z4M and Alpina Roadster S will remain desirable and values will stay strong. The Renault Avantine bottomed out a few years back and since them prices have risen. The Volvo 850 T5-R is already prohibitive unless you are a collector and the 850R is following suit - in both cases you want the manual gearbox and in estate form.

The E30 M3 has gone through the roof, and the 190 2.5-16 has followed suit. The Merc E500 of the same era is actually pretty well priced at the moment. E36 M3 is desirable now if unmolested (impossible to find) and the only E46 one worth having is the CSL - which was a collector the moment it was sold out. The E92 is still dropping and may get a bit of "last of the NA M3 kudos - but not a huge load. The Alpina B3 GT3 is holding pretty firm - and shouldn't drop much further considering the hardware and limited run. The 1M remains firm. E39 M5s in good condition are bouncing back, E28s have gone through the roof, and the E34 is heading north rapidly.

"Black" Mercs will have long term future value - but you'll need to hold them for a while. The limited run Morgans (Aeromax, Supersport) are all over the place on value 160k CHF seems to the value of the former at the moment - but there are higher priced ones in the rest of Europe. The latter is cheaper but should be dragged along on the coat tails.

Any limited run Ferrari/Lamborghini is worth buying.

I can see the Citroen C6 tanking over the next few years and then slowly gaining value in the (very) long term.

Returning to normality - the Volvo 240 remains a solid investment if you can get hold of a good one - the 262 and 780 are already classics. Earlier Volvos (all of them) have a good classic value and are useable. There are some bargains to be had in the Saab world - non-Turbo 99 - but anything non-Turbo from the classic 900 and later is not worth touching. The last 9-3 (2.8T XWD) may have kudos value in the future with its 4wd system but it will be limited. The last 9-5 oozes Scandinavian cool but the engine to have (2.8T as per the 9-3) lacks vocal appeal and the build quality is short of what you'd expect at the price point. Long term it may have some collector/classic value.

Old Land Rovers and Merc G-wagons are obvious - as are early Range Rovers. The 4.6 P38 shouldn't be touched with a barge pole. The block was over-bored and horrendously unreliable. Discos (1 and 2) just don't seem to have the same long term appeal - time will tell whether the 3 can buck that. Non-bubble look Land Cruisers remain keepers.

The old shark-nose 6 series has already risen in value and the 8-series now carries some serious early 90s cool - so prices have risen. Alpina versions of anything pre-2000 are pretty much flat.

In general: only buy something on a limited production run.
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Old 09.11.2015, 18:22
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Re: What is it with classic Porsches

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Couldn't the bearings be replaced during a clutch job? Or is it an overall design problem, and new bearings may just as well go bad?
I believe it is the overall design of the engine but new bearings may be strengthened and changed when the clutch is being done (or other way around). No guarantees. There may be other opinions on the EF but my Porsche specialist says not to worry about it. The engine would have been gone long ago if the bearing was faulty.


If you don't want it to be a problem go for the 997.2 (also offered with PDK).
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Old 09.11.2015, 18:23
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Re: Classic Cars - Future Classics

I'm surprised you left an obvious contender off your otherwise exhaustive list of BMWs, DK.

Z1.
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Old 09.11.2015, 18:32
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Re: What is it with classic Porsches

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I believe it is the overall design of the engine but new bearings may be strengthened and changed when the clutch is being done (or other way around). No guarantees. There may be other opinions on the EF but my Porsche specialist says not to worry about it. The engine would have been gone long ago if the bearing was faulty.


If you don't want it to be a problem go for the 997.2 (also offered with PDK).
I suppose if you've reached over 100,000km, and the IMS is still intact, it would have aged well. I would probably have to make sure the oil is changed and checked for fragments every 5,000km.
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Old 09.11.2015, 18:32
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the thread to discuss the correct car thread

Hi All,

As Ace1 seems to be very picky about the car threads, why not have a thread where you can discuss in which thread you should post.

Imagine, have something about a Porsche. It could be a future classic and you have found one that you could recommend to everyone.

It could fit here
http://www.englishforum.ch/transport...-porsches.html
and here
Classic Cars - Future Classics
and here
Recommended cars for sale
and here
The "which is the best car" thread.

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Old 09.11.2015, 18:34
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Re: What is it with classic Porsches

what's with the groans? geeks...
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Old 09.11.2015, 18:35
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Re: What is it with classic Porsches

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what's with the groans? geeks...
I'm not a 911 fan - but even I know never to question their value and heritage!
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Old 09.11.2015, 18:36
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Re: Classic Cars - Future Classics

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I'm surprised you left an obvious contender off your otherwise exhaustive list of BMWs, DK.

Z1.
Already a classic - and an obvious one. Along with any unmolested and very good condition car from the 80s and earlier
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