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-   -   Letter from ecollect.ch (https://www.englishforum.ch/transportation-driving/250647-letter-ecollect-ch.html)

babaroga 15.03.2016 15:03

Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Hi all,

I have recently received a letter from company called eCollect. They are demanding a payment for some parking fine that was made in some other country outside EU and Switzerland back in 2014. I cannot recall ever receiving parking fine over there.

Apparently they either bought the loan or acting on behalf of European Parking Collection, which is one of those, and eCollect.ch is registered in Zug.

I have no idea on how they got onto my details and how they can request a payment?

Is this legal in Switzerland and shall I report this to local Gemeinde and Police?

Many Thanks

daffy99 15.03.2016 15:19

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by babaroga (Post 2555410)
company called eCollect.

Honestly? I think you should support their innovative business model - they are a startup technology company with venture capital, FinTech sector, want to expand across Europe. What's there not to like?

Regarding their demands? It's just looks like factoring or plain debt collection. Pretty legal everywhere on this planet.

Has the parking fine any merit? That's your problem and that's what you need to challenge.

babaroga 15.03.2016 15:22

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Exactly the point, how do you prove something that you have not done ?

On the other note, they say that they have the proof, but not sent any.

Treverus 15.03.2016 15:34

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by babaroga (Post 2555423)
Exactly the point, how do you prove something that you have not done ?

On the other note, they say that they have the proof, but not sent any.

Well, tell them: Show me the proof or I won't pay. If you don't pay will they first send some reminder and then cannot sue you like in other countries, but start a very regulated process at the city hall called Betreibung. Latest at that stage will they have to prove you as well as the city official that you indeed owe them money... I bet they don't have proper proof and the more "unusual" the country is, the less likely will the city hall accept some claim without clear facts to back them up.

daffy99 15.03.2016 15:55

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by babaroga (Post 2555423)
Exactly the point, how do you prove something that you have not done ?

That's what you think - no disrepect etc.

Case in point: If you actually _were_ in that location at the specified date / time, what do you think is the likelihood that they invent something out of the blue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by babaroga (Post 2555423)
On the other note, they say that they have the proof, but not sent any.

Kindly reply the cheapest way possible (email, B post, whatever) and ask for the documentation.

Their next steps will be
- continue to issue demands and "Mahnung" and slap fees on top
- they will threaten Betreibung (which you will immediately reject as invalid - this is critical so that it does not show up the Betreibungsregisterauszug!)

Then every party will review whether to continue playing the game or not. You have not supplied enough information on amounts to make a guess on how worthwhile pursuing that thing could be for them. Note: It's not the principal which generates the income for them, it is the collection fees.

Landers 15.03.2016 17:50

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
I know in the UK (and maybe EU) you would say you have no knowledge of the debt and ask for their evidence. That in itself should be enough to pause any debt collection against you. If they continue to ask for money then they're breaking the law. Even if they do have evidence very often parking fines are 'dodgy' as there might not have been adequate signage etc. In the UK the debt companies are not allowed to pursue a debt unless they have solid grounds that the debt is real and know for sure your'e the one who owes it. That doesn't stop them trying of course.

I once got a fine directly from my local police for parking and causing an obstruction. I asked for their evidence as I had no idea what they were talking about as I have never parked in that street. They replied "Sorry there was a technical error and the fine has been removed". I think the technical error was they typed in the wrong street name :D

Landers 15.03.2016 17:51

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 2555511)
I know in the UK (and maybe EU) you would say you have no knowledge of the debt and ask for their evidence. That in itself should be enough to pause any debt collection against you. If they continue to ask for money then they're breaking the law. Even if they do have evidence very often parking fines are 'dodgy' as there might not have been adequate signage etc. In the UK the debt companies are not allowed to pursue a debt unless they have solid grounds that the debt is real and know for sure your'e the one who owes it. That doesn't stop them trying of course.

I once got a fine directly from my local police for parking and causing an obstruction. I asked for their evidence as I had no idea what they were talking about as I have never parked in that street. They replied "Sorry there was a technical error and the fine has been removed". I think the technical error was they typed in the wrong street name :D


But "TIS" and things are surely different :cool:

Treverus 15.03.2016 17:53

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 2555511)
I once got a fine directly from my local police for parking and causing an obstruction. I asked for their evidence as I had no idea what they were talking about as I have never parked in that street. They replied "Sorry there was a technical error and the fine has been removed". I think the technical error was they typed in the wrong street name :D


ch2013 15.03.2016 18:13

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
https://angel.co/ecollect

John_H 15.03.2016 19:06

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
It's pretty interesting.. I have been getting letters regarding a parking fine from a private parking company in Scotland for 5 years now.. Every few months they send a letter with more RED capitals text and I throw it in the bin.
They say a car with my number plate was at xx place at xx time, i can't really prove I was elsewhere, they can't really prove it wasn't a cloned plate. In Scotland there's no route for them to take me to court.

But it's interesting that they may sell the "debt" to a swiss company should they discover the I'm here.

babaroga 15.03.2016 21:54

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
I am going to contact my rechtschutz company tomorrow and see what they have to say.

What is interesting is that they have sent me the letter, not orange other slip for payment, but instead gave their account number and SWIFT code. Also, letter was sent with normal post, without requirement for anyone to sign for it, and no return address anywhere on the envelope.

As an evidence, there is paper that claims that I was at certain place at certain time, and where photo is supposed to be, there is blank grey square...loads of steaming excrements. :msnsick:

Hanna Keller 31.03.2016 15:58

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Hi babaroga,

My Name is Hanna Keller and I’m working for the Swiss debt collection agency eCollect AG. Indeed, we are acting on behalf of Euro Parking Collection Pic - the holder of the asserted receivable. Our claim is absolutely justified and based upon proven legal facts. Please contact me in this regard at kontakt@ecollect.ch by giving the reference number of the discussed case and I’ll provide you thereupon with the necessary proofs.

I hereby assure the forum members that Euro Parking Collection Pic has all documents, photo evidences inclusive proving the data relevant to the concrete case such as contravention location, contravention date and time, license plate etc.




Kind regards,

Hanna Keller
Collection Agent

AbFab 31.03.2016 16:04

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanna Keller (Post 2565201)
Hi babaroga,

My Name is Hanna Keller and I’m working for the Swiss debt collection agency eCollect AG. Indeed, we are acting on behalf of Euro Parking Collection Pic - the holder of the asserted receivable. Our claim is absolutely justified and based upon proven legal facts. Please contact me in this regard at kontakt@ecollect.ch by giving the reference number of the discussed case and I’ll provide you thereupon with the necessary proofs.

I hereby assure the forum members that Euro Parking Collection Pic has all documents, photo evidences inclusive proving the data relevant to the concrete case such as contravention location, contravention date and time, license plate etc.




Kind regards,

Hanna Keller
Collection Agent

Big sister is watching...

Landers 31.03.2016 16:05

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanna Keller (Post 2565201)
Hi babaroga,

My Name is Hanna Keller and I’m working for the Swiss debt collection agency eCollect AG. Indeed, we are acting on behalf of Euro Parking Collection Pic - the holder of the asserted receivable. Our claim is absolutely justified and based upon proven legal facts. Please contact me in this regard at kontakt@ecollect.ch by giving the reference number of the discussed case and I’ll provide you thereupon with the necessary proofs.

I hereby assure the forum members that Euro Parking Collection Pic has all documents, photo evidences inclusive proving the data relevant to the concrete case such as contravention location, contravention date and time, license plate etc.




Kind regards,

Hanna Keller
Collection Agent


Is this a wind up? Such public correspondence about a debt matter would likely be considered harrassment in the UK, but this is not UK and not even EU but CH where dodgey business practices seem to be the norm.

Treverus 31.03.2016 16:06

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
oh boy!


http://www.standardconcessionsupply....orn_Bowl_1.jpg

roegner 31.03.2016 16:07

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanna Keller (Post 2565201)
Hi babaroga,

My Name is Hanna Keller and I’m working for the Swiss debt collection agency eCollect AG. Indeed, we are acting on behalf of Euro Parking Collection Pic - the holder of the asserted receivable. Our claim is absolutely justified and based upon proven legal facts. Please contact me in this regard at kontakt@ecollect.ch by giving the reference number of the discussed case and I’ll provide you thereupon with the necessary proofs.

I hereby assure the forum members that Euro Parking Collection Pic has all documents, photo evidences inclusive proving the data relevant to the concrete case such as contravention location, contravention date and time, license plate etc.




Kind regards,

Hanna Keller
Collection Agent


Then why wasn´t that Information provided in the first place? When I received a ticket for speeding from a town in Germany they also provided a "nice" picture. Just sending an invoice doesn´t cut it

Textoch 31.03.2016 16:13

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanna Keller (Post 2565201)
Hi babaroga,

My Name is Hanna Keller and I’m working for the Swiss debt collection agency eCollect AG. Indeed, we are acting on behalf of Euro Parking Collection Pic - the holder of the asserted receivable. Our claim is absolutely justified and based upon proven legal facts. Please contact me in this regard at kontakt@ecollect.ch by giving the reference number of the discussed case and I’ll provide you thereupon with the necessary proofs.

I hereby assure the forum members that Euro Parking Collection Pic has all documents, photo evidences inclusive proving the data relevant to the concrete case such as contravention location, contravention date and time, license plate etc.



Kind regards,

Hanna Keller
Collection Agent

She's been paid 120 CHF's a year for the past ten years, watching EF and just waiting for today, when she could finally join and post this. ;)

alemap 31.03.2016 16:19

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
yes to the popcorn, and have a read of this (looks unenforceable)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...e-Fine....html

Sean Connery 31.03.2016 16:21

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
including first hand power of attorney to (potentially) collect such charges (speculative invoices) and conclusive evidence that the individual you are pursuing did and was able to enter into a contract with another party (which certainly wasn't Euro Parking Collection) which has been breached?

Because it is likely if it's a parking invoice, the only party able to take legal action is likely to be the land owner and the driver of the car - who someone claims breached the contract - may not be the person you're pursuing.

And that's before we ask when the contract was formed and the payment not made plus the statute of limitations in the jurisdiction where the violation may have occurred may have expired.

Seems an open and close case to me......

roegner 31.03.2016 16:24

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Oh well, she´s gone now ;-)

rob1 31.03.2016 17:30

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Euro parking hahaha throw it in the bin

alemap 31.03.2016 17:55

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
As well as evidence, power of attorney, proof they can operate on behalf of the Council or local authority, wouldn't they also need to show that there has been a judicial judgement of some kind against you, based on the evidence?

This all seems very inflated, and I'd assume only a fraction of people would pay on such a flimsy looking demand.

rob1 01.04.2016 08:21

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daffy99 (Post 2555420)
Honestly? I think you should support their innovative business model - they are a startup technology company with venture capital, FinTech sector, want to expand across Europe. What's there not to like?

Regarding their demands? It's just looks like factoring or plain debt collection. Pretty legal everywhere on this planet.

Has the parking fine any merit? That's your problem and that's what you need to challenge.

Hopefully you know the difference between a debt collection agency and a bailiff.

catandmouse 01.04.2016 19:14

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
You need to make a distinction between fines (or whatever newfangled words they have for these) issued by the police, local authorities or anything official, and those issued by private companies. The latter are civil matters and are much more difficult to enforce. Hence the strong-arm methods used by the debt-collectors trying to do so. Interestingly in Switzerland you are only obliged to pay the amount on the original bill and none of the fees of the debt collection agency.

doropfiz 01.04.2016 19:55

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by catandmouse (Post 2565888)
Interestingly in Switzerland you are only obliged to pay the amount on the original bill and none of the fees of the debt collection agency.

That's interesting. Could you please provide a link setting this out? That would help me help someone else, right away. Thanks.

Treverus 03.04.2016 21:08

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 2565902)
That's interesting. Could you please provide a link setting this out? That would help me help someone else, right away. Thanks.

Just for the record - it is totally legal to charge you a reasonable percentage of interest on money owed. But we are talking about a few percent per year... that's called Verzugszins.

Any additional charges for the effort to make you pay are illegal. Any company can send you three reminders and then make an official and very cost efficient Betreibung. If they decide to use an Inkasso company is it their job to pay them. Here is the source with a template letter to tell them to go f($& themselves...

http://www.konsumentenschutz.ch/them...jUaxoCwEbw_wcB

Landers 03.04.2016 21:48

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by catandmouse (Post 2565888)
Interestingly in Switzerland you are only obliged to pay the amount on the original bill and none of the fees of the debt collection agency.


Also the case in the UK, unless you have agreed to such costs in any contract.

rob1 03.04.2016 22:58

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
As hinted at earlier there is a huge difference between a DCA and a bailiff. DCA tell them to piss off.

doropfiz 03.04.2016 23:24

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rob1 (Post 2566709)
As hinted at earlier there is a huge difference between a DCA and a bailiff. DCA tell them to piss off.

Please, what are the official Swiss terms (in German? in French?) for a "DCA"? (not actually sure what that means in English)
And for a bailiff?
Thanks. Then perhaps I'd learn the difference.

rob1 04.04.2016 01:07

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
DCA = debt collection agency

Landers 04.04.2016 01:52

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
If you tell a debt collection agency to piss off you effectively tell them go away or take me to court, and they just might.

rob1 04.04.2016 08:20

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
All depends if they have the right to the claim doesn't it.

proshut 04.04.2016 09:13

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by babaroga (Post 2555410)
Hi all,

I have recently received a letter from company called eCollect. They are demanding a payment for some parking fine that was made in some other country outside EU and Switzerland back in 2014. I cannot recall ever receiving parking fine over there.

Apparently they either bought the loan or acting on behalf of European Parking Collection, which is one of those, and eCollect.ch is registered in Zug.

I have no idea on how they got onto my details and how they can request a payment?

Is this legal in Switzerland and shall I report this to local Gemeinde and Police?

Many Thanks

Then why is the phone number in Germany? (country code : +49)... fishy!

Treverus 04.04.2016 09:41

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 2566739)
If you tell a debt collection agency to piss off you effectively tell them go away or take me to court, and they just might.





No, not in Switzerland. You do not get sued to pay a bill, you get a Betreibung. Thats a special claims system unique to Switzerland. And there is nothing to be afraid of it - anyone who wants money from you will need to prove their claim. Something they have not done so far. Then do you of course not have to pay for the illegal costs typically slammed on your bill.


Long story short: Debt collecting agencies in Switzerland do everything to avoid the actual legal route - cause they know that they cannot make money with it. So they rather send you another angry pseudo legal threatening letter that it will get much more expensive if you wait longer and don't pay immediately... which is simply not true.

Samaire13 04.04.2016 11:26

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by proshut (Post 2566767)
Then why is the phone number in Germany? (country code : +49)... fishy!

+1

Would have guessed this is a scam for sure :confused: But then I googled a little and it seems legit :confused:
http://www.startwerk.ch/2015/01/27/e...-per-whatsapp/ http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/12520181 (German only)

Urs Max 05.04.2016 01:44

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 2566722)
Please, what are the official Swiss terms (in German? in French?) for a "DCA"? (not actually sure what that means in English)
And for a bailiff?
Thanks. Then perhaps I'd learn the difference.

DCA, debt collector agancy, is an Inkassofirma in swiss German.
Bailiff is a Gerichtsvollzieher. Even though the term exists the job/position doesn't exist in Switzerland (but it does exist in Germany)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers
If you tell a debt collection agency to piss off you effectively tell them go away or take me to court, and they just might.
Quote:

Originally Posted by rob1
All depends if they have the right to the claim doesn't it.


Nope, doesn't matter if they do. Or try, rather as the debt hasn't been proven yet.

But assuming instead that there is indeed a debt the debtor owes
- the original debt (or remainder if already partially paid)
- interest (Verzugszinsen) of no more than 5% p.a. (pro rata where applicable)
- the cost for the Betreibung itself (offcial fees, regulated; amount depends on the sum owed, typically 100-200CHF)

Code of obligations (Obligationenrecht) article 106, which the debt collectors usually refer to, does not apply. What does apply however is Schuld- und Konkursgesetz article 27 (SchKG art. 27) (no english version) which says that ...
"...
3 Niemand kann verpflichtet werden, einen gewerbsmässigen Vertreter zu bestellen. Die Kosten der Vertretung dürfen nicht dem Schuldner überbunden werden."

... thus if the creditor appoints a debt collector they are not paid by the debtor but rather by the creditor. So indeed, OP do tell them to STFU and stuff it where the sun doesn't shine (in a non-punishable way of course).

Generally speaking if after paying the debt (assuming there is indeed a debt) they keep harassing you they may be prosecutable under criminal code article 181, coercion (Nötigung). If on the other hand they keep harassing you despite being unable to prove their case that's probably coercion as well. I'm quite positive mentioning that in a registered letter plus forbidding them to contact you any more (and of course that you reserve the right to report them if they keep contacting you) will get you your peace back.

bigblue2 01.12.2016 15:11

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
been getting letters from these clowns now for the dart charge, threats are getting more :) lets see how far they take it before I fold and pay them the 3chf original charge lol

Textoch 01.12.2016 16:59

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblue2 (Post 2701144)
been getting letters from these clowns now for the dart charge, threats are getting more :) lets see how far they take it before I fold and pay them the 3chf original charge lol

Too bad bills in Switzerland must be paid by transfer. Sending a payment by post with 60 5-centime coins Scotch-taped onto the remittance slip would be gratifying in this case, IMO.

Medea Fleecestealer 03.12.2016 21:27

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
This might cheer all of you up. :D

"A spoof news site has released a charity song for Christmas, mocking an infamous river crossing.

Southend News Network's song "Dartford Tolls" has been viewed more than one million times on Facebook and YouTube.

Written by the site's creator, the ditty slams the Essex to Kent crossing's regular traffic jams and "extortionate" toll charges.

Southend News Network's "chief reporter" said the aim was to raise "as much money as possible" for charity."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-38180535

catandmouse 28.06.2018 08:57

Re: Letter from ecollect.ch
 
This is clearly a civil case and not a criminal case, so you won't have the police getting involved in this.
Have you received any documentation relating to the claim? Any detailed invoices? If you want to deal with the claim, these would be the first things to go for. That will allow you to determine what amount you really need to pay (paying 250 or so CHFs for the Dartford crossing seems like extortion, when in reality you probably only need to pay the original toll plus interest for late payment).
If you ignore this completely, the only way they can move further is "poursuite" or "Betreibung" which you can simply contest. After that, they have to take you to court, which they may or may not do, as it's a lot of bother for them, as the burden of proof of the debt is on them.


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