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  #41  
Old 05.01.2018, 12:18
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Re: Car loans?

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His point is that you pay for it somewhere in the transaction, not that 0% “deals” aren’t offered. Typically the price of the car is too high to begin with.
True that!
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  #42  
Old 05.01.2018, 16:48
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Re: Car loans?

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I'm pretty sure that these insurance prices are more relevant for Swiss nationals, and less for people on permits.
It will also depend greatly on the car. The cheapest car I have insured, is the least powerful at 240bhp, and that is around the 800 mark with a clean-ish record. Even if I maxed out the bonuses, wouldn't be much cheaper.
I just changed my car insurance from Allianz (basically a bunch of crooks) to Generali, and my basic insurance went from >700 to 400/year, having B permit.

And suddenly upon quitting, Allianz, presumably due to legal requirements, found out that they owe me 1600 CHF from some accident that happened few months ago (Somebody bumped into my car in blue zone parking, somebody else saw it and reported, I just got the letter from police informing me. Nice thing is, no real damage was done apart from minor bumper scratch which doesn't really require repairs).

The issue is, you have to care and look at places like comparis every year. Also, 'clean-ish' record sounds like you messed up sometime ago - insurances share databases of people like you, don't expect to get away with it. Either it's clean or its not, nothing in between. Power of the car doesn't affect basic insurance, only driver does (which makes sense).

Owning car can be relatively cheap (and talking about BMW 330d here), biggest expense apart from fuel and good tires is car tax. Parking in blue zone is 200/year (actually there are still some free white parking spots in Geneva, but they gradually disappear).

If you like travelling / mountains, car is a must in Geneva (or having like-minded friend with a car). City public transport is +-okayish & cheap, but almost nothing goes out to France, and Swiss trains are so overpriced (and riddled with frequent delays) that I anyway drive a car if I need to go there (which I usually don't).
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  #43  
Old 06.01.2018, 01:28
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Re: Car loans?

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...and Swiss trains are so overpriced (and riddled with frequent delays) that I anyway drive a car if I need to go there (which I usually don't).
You were making sense until that bit.
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  #44  
Old 06.01.2018, 11:31
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Re: Car loans?

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You were making sense until that bit.
You're saying the swiss trains aren't overpriced? I think *you* are the one not making any sense now
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  #45  
Old 06.01.2018, 12:03
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Re: Car loans?

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You're saying the swiss trains aren't overpriced? I think *you* are the one not making any sense now
Overpriced, yes (unless you take advantage of the numerous discounted offers); riddled with delays, no.
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  #46  
Old 06.01.2018, 13:27
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Re: Car loans?

lol. Im not sure what you guys are comparing to but compared to other rail networks of Europe, The Swiss rail network is a jewel. Its punctual, clean, functional, and most of all, reasonably priced.

What on earth are you comparing it to?
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  #47  
Old 06.01.2018, 13:38
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Re: Car loans?

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The issue is, you have to care and look at places like comparis every year. Also, 'clean-ish' record sounds like you messed up sometime ago - insurances share databases of people like you, don't expect to get away with it. Either it's clean or its not, nothing in between. Power of the car doesn't affect basic insurance, only driver does (which makes sense)

Clean-ish means I had claims but I'm not too far from the highest bonus numbers in the tables. I'm not looking for insurance fraud, and I have no issue reporting my 5-year past when I'm getting insurance quotes, so not trying to get away with anything I don't understand why the attitude is necessary...

Also, car definitely affects basic insurance. I have 2 cars, quote from the same company for 3rd party liability is largely different, as the one has double the power of the other.
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  #48  
Old 06.01.2018, 13:40
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Re: Car loans?

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Depending on your exact situation and what papers you can show immediately somewhere in between 1 minute and 1 month.
If I'm not mistaken, there is a cool-off period of sorts between approval and actually getting the money in your bank account, which is something like 3-4 weeks, and which (I think) is mandated by the law.
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  #49  
Old 23.10.2019, 16:33
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Re: Car loans?

Anyone that says that owning a car in Zurich is not necessary and it is cheaper to get mobility....Have you actually used mobility for any period of time/distance?. It is dammn expensive.

The secret to cheap car ownership in Switzerland is to buy a youngtimer.

My experience (has been a lucky one)...

Alfa 75 : Bought for 1'250CHF with 1'000CHF worth of wheels. I spent 2k getting it fixed and through the mfk. Had it 4 years, travelled 40t km. And around 3k in 4 years of maintenance (paying stupid zurich prices).

Never let me down ever...I used it every day for 4 years, looks cool (people give me thumbs up wherever I go), handles amazingly, sounds great, I get left notes with people wanting to buy it off me on my windscreen all the time.

As long as it is driveable, I take it either to the "do it yourself garage" in Wintherthur or drive to the UK to a mechanic that I know who is an expert on these cars and charges £20 an hour and it is where I do any "upgrades" (thicker anti roll bar, short shifter, alfaholics syncros in the gearbox)...anything which the MFK cannot contest.

Insurance is dirt cheap (600 a year fully comp; 15'000km or so per year), parking in Seefeld is SUPER easy (blue card is 300chf), MFK my swiss mechanic handles, tax is also cheap (i think only 150chf a year).

Next year it will be old enough to become oldtimer, meaning 6 years mfk.

And every year it is going up in value, I'm quite sure I can sell it for at least 5.5k....

So if you choose right, you can actually drive around and the total lifetime ownership of the vehicle can actually be almost 0 cost, even turn a profit. Lots of friends that have porsche and ferrari have experienced this.

The trick is to choose the next "youngtimer"...anything from the 80s is super cool right now, boxy stuff...
Porsche 944 are about as cheap as you are going to find them
E34 BMW you aren't going to loose on
Any saab
Volvo V40/V70 Rs
T3 Campervans (the ugly one, people are want the T1 but they are too expensive to the surfer boys settle)
Mk1/Mk2 Golf GTI
Alfa Romeo GTV
Fiat Uno Turbo
Renault Clio Williams
Peugeot 205 GTI
And the list goes on....

I would suggest something with a smaller engine and with a simple ECU set-up.

You buy it, take it to italy, england or eastern europe and do an almost complete restoration - with lots of preventive maintenance. Change everything unless it is almost new. Get the engine compression tested, valve clearances done, big end shells changed.

Then enjoy your youngtimer....free to sell it when you want, suffering no depreciation....
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  #50  
Old 23.10.2019, 16:38
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Re: Car loans?

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Next year it will be old enough to become oldtimer, meaning 6 years mfk.
If you register it as an old timer your yearly km are capped at 3000 km.
Also the car must be in very good condition, original and only period aftermarket parts are allowed.
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  #51  
Old 23.10.2019, 16:46
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Re: Car loans?

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Anyone that says that owning a car in Zurich is not necessary and it is cheaper to get mobility....Have you actually used mobility for any period of time/distance?. It is dammn expensive.

The secret to cheap car ownership in Switzerland is to buy a youngtimer.

My experience (has been a lucky one)...

Alfa 75 : Bought for 1'250CHF with 1'000CHF worth of wheels. I spent 2k getting it fixed and through the mfk. Had it 4 years, travelled 40t km. And around 3k in 4 years of maintenance (paying stupid zurich prices).

Never let me down ever...I used it every day for 4 years, looks cool (people give me thumbs up wherever I go), handles amazingly, sounds great, I get left notes with people wanting to buy it off me on my windscreen all the time.

As long as it is driveable, I take it either to the "do it yourself garage" in Wintherthur or drive to the UK to a mechanic that I know who is an expert on these cars and charges £20 an hour and it is where I do any "upgrades" (thicker anti roll bar, short shifter, alfaholics syncros in the gearbox)...anything which the MFK cannot contest.

Insurance is dirt cheap (600 a year fully comp; 15'000km or so per year), parking in Seefeld is SUPER easy (blue card is 300chf), MFK my swiss mechanic handles, tax is also cheap (i think only 150chf a year).

Next year it will be old enough to become oldtimer, meaning 6 years mfk.

And every year it is going up in value, I'm quite sure I can sell it for at least 5.5k....
Your car,

Purchase, wheels, getting fixed, 3K maintenance = 7.250,-
Insurance 4 yrs = 2.400,-
Blue card 4 yrs = 1.200,-
Road tax 4 yrs = 600,-

Totals: 11.450,-
Est. value = 5.5K
Giving a loss of: 5.950,-

Yet here you are:

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So if you choose right, you can actually drive around and the total lifetime ownership of the vehicle can actually be almost 0 cost
Clearly you chose wrong, or what are you exactly trying to tell?
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  #52  
Old 23.10.2019, 20:39
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Re: Car loans?

If you live in Seefeld, are a car fanatic [you know what a synchro ring is after all], and drive an Alfa and not a Ferrari, odds are you don't own the apartment block you live in.

Why not buy a small house with a garage in the sticks, get a GA with part of the rent saving, and spend the commute time online ordering parts for your Motreal or Ferrari, which you buy with rent savings and fuel costs?
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  #53  
Old 23.10.2019, 22:50
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Re: Car loans?

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Alfa 75 : Bought for 1'250CHF with 1'000CHF worth of wheels.
Kudos for a real car lover! Great car.
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  #54  
Old 23.10.2019, 23:56
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Re: Car loans?

You actually sold these wheels for Chf 1k yet ?
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  #55  
Old 24.10.2019, 00:01
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Re: Car loans?

Get an old Subaru. Unlike some friends and family it will never let you down.
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  #56  
Old 24.10.2019, 22:28
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Re: Car loans?

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You actually sold these wheels for Chf 1k yet ?
No but plenty of people buy them for 1'200+...

Ronal A1 in 5x98 pcd.... They come up for sale every now and again. By the time I've called to enquire, they are sold (usually the same day).

Following this trail of thought, I'm now thinking of getting either a BMW 1m or a Jaguar S type R...

The 1m as a modern classic collectible, the type R as a "use it until it blows" vehicle.

Both options just beat the depreciation of leasing....

I just need to sell the other two 75s
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  #57  
Old 24.10.2019, 22:34
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Re: Car loans?

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If you register it as an old timer your yearly km are capped at 3000 km.
Also the car must be in very good condition, original and only period aftermarket parts are allowed.
Yes, I can make it original really easily. The only thing you will notice is the thicker anti roll bar (they won't notice), the koni suspensions (which were available at the time), the racing seat (comes out easily), and the steering wheel (easy swap).

I've come to realise there is a bit more wiggle room with the MFK if you don't take the car yourself but you have a trust mechanic do it for you.
Specially in another canton.
Particularly if the mechanic is Italian and there is an Italian-orihined tester somewhere
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  #58  
Old 24.10.2019, 22:42
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Re: Car loans?

Piena Corsa?
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  #59  
Old 24.10.2019, 22:42
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Re: Car loans?

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Your car,

Purchase, wheels, getting fixed, 3K maintenance = 7.250,-
Insurance 4 yrs = 2.400,-
Blue card 4 yrs = 1.200,-
Road tax 4 yrs = 600,-

Totals: 11.450,-
Est. value = 5.5K
Giving a loss of: 5.950,-

Yet here you are:



Clearly you chose wrong, or what are you exactly trying to tell?
You are correct. I should point out that the 3k maintenance wasn't really necessary maintenance. It was "pimping up" via gearbox upgrades, racing seat, headwork, stereo... Car ran just fine without those...

It still is a losing game. However, I've been very conservative with my selling estimate (just look at the prices on auto scout) and, given the right car, you can actually turn the car owning experience into an almost 0 cost one. Specially if you drive very little.

The point is, if you play your cards right, you do your due diligence, owing a car in Switzerland isn't as expensive as everyone makes it out to be. It's not bad enough to make me want to switch to GA and mobility.

Specially as mobility is so expensive.

And mostly tragic..

Last edited by buellboy; 24.10.2019 at 23:13.
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  #60  
Old 24.10.2019, 22:48
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Re: Car loans?

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If you live in Seefeld, are a car fanatic [you know what a synchro ring is after all], and drive an Alfa and not a Ferrari, odds are you don't own the apartment block you live in.

Why not buy a small house with a garage in the sticks, get a GA with part of the rent saving, and spend the commute time online ordering parts for your Motreal or Ferrari, which you buy with rent savings and fuel costs?
Because I blew my savings on buying 4 Alfa Romeo 75s (one of which is a rare expensive one).
Also because I can't stand long commutes.
Also because a house in the sticks sticks, still commands a high premium if your are near a station.
Also because owning a house is a hassle.
Also because I love being in the city.
Also cause I won't get food delivery in the sticks.
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