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12.08.2016, 00:20
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| | Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international license
Hi,
I have read that people who want to drive a car outside the EU need the International Driver License. A friend of mine is coming from Spain some days and, while I am working, I was planning to lend him my car with Swiss plates to drive around. The problem is that he does not have time to order the international license and will come only with the Spanish one. Would that be a problem?
Thanks!
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12.08.2016, 00:30
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen | Quote: | |  | | | Hi,
I have read that people who want to drive a car outside the EU need the International Driver License. A friend of mine is coming from Spain some days and, while I am working, I was planning to lend him my car with Swiss plates to drive around. The problem is that he does not have time to order the international license and will come only with the Spanish one. Would that be a problem?
Thanks! | | | | | No problem, see the bottom of: https://www.ch.ch/en/international-driving-licence/ | The following 2 users would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post: | | 
12.08.2016, 14:28
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen
No problem as long as he doesn't drive alone with it into EU (serious customs crime, 4-6 digit fines)
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12.08.2016, 15:48
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen
Hmmm, he wants to go to Konstanz one day. Should I strongly advice him against doing that?
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12.08.2016, 15:55
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen
Definitely. Not without you in the car.
If caught (not unlikely), they'll impound the car and accuse him of illegally importing it into the EU. Case most likely will end up in court and $$$$$ will have to be paid in customs duties, fines and court proceedings Google it up, horror stories come up every now and then in the news.
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12.08.2016, 15:55
| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen | Quote: | |  | | | Hmmm, he wants to go to Konstanz one day. Should I strongly advice him against doing that? | | | | | Just tell him to park in Kreuzlingen to be safe.
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12.08.2016, 15:59
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen
The law applies reciprocally too, as a CH resident you shouldn't generally be seen driving a non-CH car inside CH
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12.08.2016, 16:52
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen
International licence is simply a translation document.. nothing more... why do you think it makes a difference?
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12.08.2016, 16:58
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen | Quote: | |  | | | Hmmm, he wants to go to Konstanz one day. Should I strongly advice him against doing that? | | | | | No. You want to forbid him leaving the country without you in the car. Absolutely.
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12.08.2016, 17:18
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen
Understood. Thank you for the advice!
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12.08.2016, 17:20
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen | Quote: | |  | | | International licence is simply a translation document.. nothing more... why do you think it makes a difference? | | | | |
I have no idea about what it is for and my friend was worried about not having it on time, that's why I am asking.
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12.08.2016, 19:35
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen
Licenses in the eu + switzerland etc. have a common framework, no need for international licenses.
Cars are another issue, he can't absolutely drive out of Switzerland, I think now there are EU rental cars available should he need one.
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12.08.2016, 20:00
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen | Quote: | |  | | | Understood. Thank you for the advice! | | | | |
Several messages with the same advice but no details: would be very helpful to know more about this rule and exactly what it is, which jurisdiction it applies to, and who it affects.
We have a home in Switzerland with a car there, and a home in the EU with a car there. Both vehicles are insured for any driver with permission and the insurance covers visits outside the car's own country to other countries in and around the EU, including Switzerland. Each car stays at its own home. Occasionally but infrequently we will drive between the two in one of the cars.
What is the rule stating that you are likely to be penalised for a customs crime if you drive between countries in one of the cars (which we both do, infrequently but regularly, when - legally - moving household goods.) Is this a Swiss law? Or is it an EU law? Is it specific to a Spanish driver, or to any driver?
If it's illegal to drive a Swiss car outside Switzerland, how do the many Swiss cars I see at the E. Leclerc get around this?
Conversely, if it's illegal for a Swiss resident to drive a car that isn't Swiss-registered into Switzerland, how can a car be registered in Switzerland if it is not kept there? Or if it is not registered, how does this work? Is the expectation that a separate driver must be hired on entering Switzerland. Or is the intention that the Swiss car be driven to the other house and then back again? Presumably this would fall foul of a similar law on the EU side.
Puzzledly but keen to learn,
Thomas.
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12.08.2016, 20:12
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen | Quote: | |  | | | if it's illegal for a Swiss resident to drive a car that isn't Swiss-registered into Switzerland, how can a car be registered in Switzerland if it is not kept there? | | | | | No problem.
I keep a couple Swiss registered motorcycles in Trieste, just need to bring them back from time to time for MFK.
Tom
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12.08.2016, 20:28
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen | Quote: | |  | | | We have a home in Switzerland with a car there, and a home in the EU with a car there. | | | | | Let's get the basics straight - what do you mean by "home"? What matters for the customs is your residence status. Where each of you is resident? And where are each of your cars officially registered? | Quote: |  | | | Both vehicles are insured for any driver with permission and the insurance covers visits outside the car's own country to other countries in and around the EU, including Switzerland. | | | | | Insurance doesn't matter here, this is a customs issue. | Quote: |  | | | Conversely, if it's illegal for a Swiss resident to drive a car that isn't Swiss-registered into Switzerland, how can a car be registered in Switzerland if it is not kept there? Or if it is not registered, how does this work? Is the expectation that a separate driver must be hired on entering Switzerland. Or is the intention that the Swiss car be driven to the other house and then back again? Presumably this would fall foul of a similar law on the EU side. | | | | | You can drive a non-CH car into CH. But if you are a CH resident, and the non-CH owner isn't in it, that will be considered in practice as an *import*. Conversely for EU. You will be penalized if you don't follow the import formalities, such as paying customs dues. And the car's original country maybe will even fine you for not following the export formalities.
Some exceptions to this general rule can be granted upon request, e.g short term rentals. With an EU rental in CH you're supposed to stop at the border to get a Vormerkschein, then you can drive it for a few days.
Last edited by ivank; 12.08.2016 at 21:06.
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12.08.2016, 20:38
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen
Law situation is a bit complicated. There is no single law, it's all split across different codes and countries. Definitely one of those situations, where you'd need a professional lawyer to sort it all out if you get into trouble.
Here are a couple of relevant German laws:
Verordnung über die Zulassung von Fahrzeugen zum Straßenverkehr, §20
Kraftfahrzeugsteuergesetz, §1
I'm sure CH and other EU counties have similar regulations somewhere and they are all more or less "harmonized". I'm too lazy to find it all now and I'm not your lawyer. I just want to spread the knowledge that there are such laws and people have been burned big time in the past by that.
Last edited by ivank; 12.08.2016 at 21:31.
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13.08.2016, 10:35
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen | Quote: | |  | | | Law situation is a bit complicated. | | | | | Law situation is very simple and not complicated. Once you stop thinking about foreign car, license, insurance, etc. all becomes clear. As long as you think about cars you are looking in the wrong laws and regulation. Just think about a very valuable good that is moved from one customs region into an other.
Bringing goods from one customs region into another is called import and export. Depending from which side you look at the situation. It does not mater if it is temporary or permanent. It also does not matter if you own the good or it is some one else's.
In general, when you do so the good is subject to tax and duty.
Swiss Customs Law https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi.../index.html#a7
Art. 7 General provision: | Quote: |  | | | Goods which are brought into the customs territory or leaving the customs territory are subject to duty and must be assessed under this Act and in accordance with the Customs Tariff Act . | | | | | Google Translate
Swiss Federal Act on Value Added Tax https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a52
Art. 52 Taxable object: | Quote: |  | | | 1 The taxable object is:
a. the import of goods, including the services and rights contained therein; | | | | | Not paying tax or duty when you move goods over the border is called smuggling. Smuggling is prosecuted by fines, imprisonment, extra tax and duty and possible confiscation of the smuggling ware.
You will find similar text in the tax and duty laws of any other customs region on this planet.
Now, as always there are exemptions. Particular for certain goods, for cases the good is not used in the customs region but just passes through (transit), most notably for tourists, goods which previously taxed and are returned within a certain period, and for some temporary imports.
Here comes the little bit complicated part. The laws, regulations, and all the international agreements on all those various exemptions are numerous. So is the needed paperwork and bureaucracy in most of these cases. But for Joe Sixpack and Hans-Ueli Bünzli things are still pretty simple.
For tourists things are simplified and most temporary imports do not need any formalities. Just pass the border and you are good as long as you adhere to the rules (duration of temporary import, and no goods subject to tax or duty) For details see the Istanbul Convention On Temporary Admission. http://www.wcoomd.org/en/topics/faci..._text_Eng.ashx
(Side note: This is also where you find the part that an EU resident can use your car, or you could use your your friends Car, when both are present in the car. The key is, it is not about the driver, it is all about the user)
Important to know: A tourist, or traveler as defined in the convention,
"is any person who temporarily enters the territory of a Contracting Party in which he or she does not normally reside, for the purposes of tourism, sports, business, professional meetings, health, study, etc.;"
Ergo, you can not claim tourist status, tax and duty exemptions when you bring goods in the customs region where you have your permanent residence/domicile.
Means the tax and duty exemptions have just shrinked to nearly zero. As you know you can normally bring goods up to CHF 300/day into Switzerland tax free and without any formalities. Remember what I said at the very beginning? A foreign car is just an expensive good, and it certainly has a value of more than CHF 300. In conclusion you must declare it at the border as this is the normal procedure when you bring goods over the border a.k.a import. Not doing so is called smuggling.
Now comes the most complicated part. As we are not a tourist put a permanent resident in the Swiss customs area we have to find in our own tax and duty laws an exemption that applies to our case. Now we treat our valuable good as what it is: a foreign car. More generic, it is a foreign means of transport. The exemption for this case is laid down in Art. 35 and Art. 36 of the Zollverordnung (Customs Ordinance, sorry no English text) https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a35
There are two exemptions you can make use of: For hire cars there is an exemption for 5-8 days of use, for private cars their is a generic exemptions when no suitable means of transport is available and if the foreign means of transport will be used only for a short time. What ever the later means.
The formalities are quite simple, declare the foreign car at the border, state and proof that one of the exemptions apply to your case. The right document to request is Form 15.30 which allows the tax free temporary use of the car in the Swiss customs area. (Do not request the Vormerkschein which is Form 15.25, this one is used for pro forma pre-declaration, where you would fully declare at an customs office inside Switzerland within the next two days)
Done.
Now for the EU, and an EU resident. It is all the same, expect that it is not so easy do find all the exemptions an needed formalities. Problem is, if you do not follow the formalities you are smuggling and subject to hefty fines, extra duty and tax, and possible impounding of the car.
The exemptions are laid down in Article 215 of Regulation (EU) 2015/2446 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...5R2446&from=EN | Quote: |  | | | 1. Natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs territory of the Union shall benefit from total relief from import duty in respect of means of transport which they use privately and occasionally, at the request of the registration holder, provided that the registration holder is in the customs territory of the Union at the time of use.
2. Natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs territory of the Union shall benefit from total relief from import duty in respect of means of transport which they have hired under a written contract and use privately for one of the following purposes:
(a) to return to their place of residence in the customs territory of the Union;
(b) to leave the customs territory of the Union.
3. Natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs territory of the Union shall benefit from total relief from import duties in respect of means of transport which they use commercially or privately provided that they are employed by the owner, hirer or lessee of the means of transport and that the employer is established outside that customs territory.
Private use of the means of transport is allowed for journeys between the place of work and the place of residence of the employee or with the purpose of performing a professional task of the employee as stipulated in the contract of employment. At the request of the customs authorities, the person using the means of transport shall present a copy of the contract of employment.
4. For the purposes of this article,
(a) private use means the use other than commercial of a means of transport;
(b) commercial use means the use of means of transport for the transport of persons for remuneration or the industrial or commercial transport of goods, whether or not for remuneration. | | | | | Unlike in the Swiss case I do not know what the form you would have to request at the border.
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Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 13.08.2016 at 10:46.
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13.08.2016, 16:00
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen
Thank you very much IvanK and ASwissintheUS for these very useful replies.
It all makes a bit more sense now. I am still very confused how to apply things in our case and will have to research a bit and work it out.
Difficult to decode laws, without ending up in a whole world of 'lawyerness'. As even the most simple of statements becomes confusing - have never managed to determine how residency is defined as it seems different for each territory and for each purpose. Even the owner of the car in question is a puzzle: not sure which card was used to buy it (and even then, I wonder if that determines ownership?). I suppose we just consider it 'household property' which is fine for us, but not sufficient for a government.
It looks like the main hurdle of VAT and customs duty may actually not be too much of an issue, since as it happens both were paid both inside and outside the EU and neither ever reclaimed, and I have the paperwork to prove it. So it's a question of making sure I am following the actual rules, as well as the intent of the rules. Which is harder!
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13.08.2016, 17:13
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| | Re: Lend Swiss car to a friend with Spanish driver license but no international licen | Quote: | |  | | | Law situation is very simple and not complicated. | | | | | I think the rest of your answer proves otherwise  Thanks for digging the swiss laws | Quote: |  | | | have never managed to determine how residency is defined as it seems different for each territory and for each purpose. | | | | | Whoa, that doesn't sound good.
You should really know your residency status. Don't count on the competency of border guards. You can count that in doubt they'll just do the safest thing for their asses - stop you at the border for clarifications. Do you really want to get stuck at the border, desperately looking for closest available lawyer? | Quote: |  | | | Even the owner of the car in question is a puzzle: not sure which card was used to buy it (and even then, I wonder if that determines ownership?). | | | | | Just the plate (country of registration) matter as far as cars go. As long you drive EU plated car in EU, and CH plated car in CH, you should fine and it doesn't matter who owns/drives it then (as long as by permission). Questions will be raised once you cross border into a customs region which considers you its resident - from their point of view you may be importing a foreign car. | Quote: |  | | | It looks like the main hurdle of VAT and customs duty may actually not be too much of an issue, since as it happens both were paid both inside and outside the EU and neither ever reclaimed, and I have the paperwork to prove it. | | | | | I really wouldn't count on that. Ask a lawyer if your situation is as complicated as you describe - a simple preventive consultation will be far cheaper than a potential court case about smuggling. If you have legal insurance, it might even cover such consulation.
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