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  #21  
Old 09.10.2019, 12:54
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Re: The rule of electronic scooter in Zurich or Switzerland

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I am riding a electronic scooter (like the one shown below) recently in Zurich for commuting. Can anyone here tell me whether there is any specific rule for electronic scooter in Zurich?

By googling it, it seems that electronic scooter should be considered the same as a bicycle (using only bicycle lane). But I can see many people riding it on side walks (even in front of police), and in many streets, there is no bicycle lane.

My strategy now is to use bicycle lane when there is one, or otherwise just ride it on the side walks.

Your feedbacks are really appreciated.
Dualtron Thunder

You are driving an unallowed 5400W electrical vehicle that can reach 80km/hr.

Forget everything that has been said about just getting a fine, this goes way beyond all those "toy" scooters you see everywhere, this is almost breaking the maximum amount of laws possible with a scooter.

Tip: If you get an accident regardless of who is at fault, offer loads of money to buy it off and keep police and insurances out of it.
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  #22  
Old 09.10.2019, 13:02
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

Can anyone in the know, tell me if these 2 electric scooters are road legal here? The website says they are, but I can't bring myself to 100% trust it. Cheers.

https://www.microspot.ch/de/freizeit...r--p0001434866

https://www.microspot.ch/de/freizeit...gaAm6tEALw_wcB
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  #23  
Old 09.10.2019, 13:17
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

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Can anyone in the know, tell me if these 2 electric scooters are road legal here? The website says they are, but I can't bring myself to 100% trust it. Cheers.

https://www.microspot.ch/de/freizeit...r--p0001434866

https://www.microspot.ch/de/freizeit...gaAm6tEALw_wcB
In French

"... équipés d'un système de propulsion électrique, dont la puissance du ou des moteurs n'excède pas 0,50 kW au total, pouvant atteindre une vitesse de 20 km/h au maximum ..."

As far as I can see, it's really only the 20km/h speed limit and 500w motor that matters

Edit : So I would say they are both legal
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Old 09.10.2019, 13:26
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

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Can anyone in the know, tell me if these 2 electric scooters are road legal here? The website says they are, but I can't bring myself to 100% trust it. Cheers.

https://www.microspot.ch/de/freizeit...r--p0001434866

https://www.microspot.ch/de/freizeit...gaAm6tEALw_wcB
They don't need a special road allowance if they are limited at 20kmph max.

What you do need tho is:
- Lights front and back
- Bell (or however those ring-ring things are called in English)
- Brakes on front and back wheel (Which I think they have)
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Old 09.10.2019, 13:38
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

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They don't need a special road allowance if they are limited at 20kmph max.

What you do need tho is:
- Lights front and back
- Bell (or however those ring-ring things are called in English)
- Brakes on front and back wheel (Which I think they have)
Plus a red rear reflector with an area of at least 10 cm2
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Old 09.10.2019, 13:47
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

I've done 700km on mine since i bought it, ~10km per day..

One lesson I'd say is be careful in the wet, the grip is not good from those little solid tyres.. Road markings, drain covers etc become like ice. Mine is IP54 rated but i don't use it if the street is much more than mildly moist.

Maybe not the best time of year to be buying one.
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Old 09.10.2019, 13:54
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

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I've done 700km on mine since i bought it, ~10km per day..

One lesson I'd say is be careful in the wet, the grip is not good from those little solid tyres.. Road markings, drain covers etc become like ice. Mine is IP54 rated but i don't use it if the street is much more than mildly moist.

Maybe not the best time of year to be buying one.
Looking ahead for next summer!
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  #28  
Old 09.10.2019, 14:32
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Re: The rule of electronic scooter in Zurich or Switzerland

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Dualtron Thunder

You are driving an unallowed 5400W electrical vehicle that can reach 80km/hr.

Forget everything that has been said about just getting a fine, this goes way beyond all those "toy" scooters you see everywhere, this is almost breaking the maximum amount of laws possible with a scooter.

Tip: If you get an accident regardless of who is at fault, offer loads of money to buy it off and keep police and insurances out of it.
I appreciate your feedback, but it seems that you don't even understand what an electronic scooter is, how come it can reach 80 km/h?
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Old 09.10.2019, 14:38
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Re: The rule of electronic scooter in Zurich or Switzerland

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I appreciate your feedback, but it seems that you don't even understand what an electronic scooter is, how come it can reach 80 km/h?
Maybe because the manual says so and because 5.4 kW is enough power to make it possible.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...a.uk.pdf?28080
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Old 09.10.2019, 15:10
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Re: The rule of electronic scooter in Zurich or Switzerland

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I appreciate your feedback, but it seems that you don't even understand what an electronic scooter is, how come it can reach 80 km/h?
Seems that you're a troll who has no clue what picture he found on the web.
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Old 09.10.2019, 16:07
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Re: The rule of electronic scooter in Zurich or Switzerland

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I appreciate your feedback, but it seems that you don't even understand what an electronic scooter is, how come it can reach 80 km/h?



He refers to this:


https://electrek.co/2019/09/30/dualt...review-50-mph/


Your image shows the scooter depicted in the article.
A vehicle, I would only ride with full face helmet and full body protection.
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  #32  
Old 09.10.2019, 16:48
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Re: The rule of electronic scooter in Zurich or Switzerland

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I appreciate your feedback, but it seems that you don't even understand what an electronic scooter is, how come it can reach 80 km/h?
Correct as far as I'm concerned, I know electric ones only.

Please explain what an electronic scooter is and how they differ from electric ones.
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Old 09.10.2019, 17:29
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

I’m so happy that someone has brought-up this topic, because the amount of electro scooters has increased significantly in past years, to the point where I don’t really feel safe even when walking to the shops anymore.

While I’m all for electro-mobility my experience has been really bad this year. With one example of young guys getting fun out of scaring the sh*t out of someone while scooting and shouting in my ear from behind, then overtaking.

I was walking within a short tunnel-like restaurant entrance, and it really, really scared me for those seconds.

I’m sick of it tbh.

What are the laws about scooting on the pavement, anyone know?
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  #34  
Old 09.10.2019, 18:09
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

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I’m so happy that someone has brought-up this topic, because the amount of electro scooters has increased significantly in past years, to the point where I don’t really feel safe even when walking to the shops anymore.

While I’m all for electro-mobility my experience has been really bad this year. With one example of young guys getting fun out of scaring the sh*t out of someone while scooting and shouting in my ear from behind, then overtaking.

I was walking within a short tunnel-like restaurant entrance, and it really, really scared me for those seconds.

I’m sick of it tbh.
If you need a witness in future who testifies that he drove into you while in fact you just kicked him of the scooter just drop me a pm

(Taking a step to the left or right at a tactical moment also can help a lot)

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What are the laws about scooting on the pavement, anyone know?
They go where bicycles go, no more, no less.
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Old 09.10.2019, 19:34
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

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If you need a witness in future who testifies that he drove into you while in fact you just kicked him of the scooter just drop me a pm

(Taking a step to the left or right at a tactical moment also can help a lot)
.
Yes, but not when they come at you from behind, are fast and screaming in your ear just for the fun of it, and you’re within a tunnel like space around 2.5m wide. Scared the shit out of me.

Since then I’ve developed a strategy if it should happen again - involves putting my arm out while carrying a potentially hurtful object. It’s sad that this should be happening here, and sad that we should even have to think about it.
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Old 15.11.2019, 14:03
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

...so I hate those people who ride and drive their e-scooters on the pavements, especially the rented ones...

I usually do not complain about certain matters and I try to adapt to new ideas. But in this case, the issue with e-scooters has now passed my limit. I have seen the people driving them on the pavements many times before, even quite close by to me while I walk normally on the pavement. In Zurich city, during lunch time yesterday, (although I saw 3 scooters driving on the pavement in the space of just 20 minutes, and I see this on a daily basis), there was this one Lime e-scooter that zoomed right passed me from behind and almost touched me and I was in shock. It must have been less than 50 cm from my body when it speeded right next to me! So enough is enough and I have already written this complaint to the authorities listed at the bottom of this post, and I urge all of you out there who have also had the same negative experience with those e-scooter drivers to do the same.

I have been living in Zurich city for a long time now and I am surprised to note the sudden burst of certain people driving these hire e-scooters on the pavements (auf den Trottoirs) since last year. Despite the weather getting colder, there are still a lot of people who ride the e-scooters on the pavements without due car, in between all of the people and nobody says anything to them. They go so fast that you have no time to tell them to get off the pavement. I would have no problem and would not be writing this post now if they just rode them on the road and/or on the cycle lanes. But when they ride them on the pavements, it causes stress, anxiety and fear, just by when you see them coming fast towards you on the pavement.

  • Riding/driving an e-scooter on the pavement is illegal in the CH. This has been confirmed. And the fine is CHF 40. An e-scooter is a motorized vehicle, it is heavy with the battery and can go quite fast, so it can cause a serious accident with a pedestrian.

  • Why hasn’t the city or the police taught the e-scooter drivers where they can drive them and to not drive them on the pavements? I have asked the relevant authorities and the police and about this.
I will give you an example: why don’t cars and motorbikes drive on the pavements? There is a reason for that, because they will get fined or cause an accident with pedestrians. So if cars and motorbikes do not drive on the pavements, why do e-scooters drive on the pavements? The answer is simple: They have not been taught not to drive on the pavements or they do not care if they receive a fine, and that is “if” they get stopped by the police (which does not seem to be happening), as the fine is just CHF 40 and they will probably just pay it and drive on the pavements again and again. I know a car is a much larger vehicle than an e-scooter but still, why then are motorbikes not allowed to drive on the pavement at a max speed of 25km/h? Do you understand my point here? It is not consistent.

  • Sometimes I even see two people on one e-scooter. This is also illegal in CH.

  • They are parked everywhere. This makes the city look ugly with all of these e-scooters lying about, sometimes right in the middle of the pavement with less of the 1.5 metres allowed space to be left free. Taking the example with cars, there is a reason why cars do not park anywhere and everywhere on the pavements, correct? Why don’t cars park in the pavements but e-scooters do park on the pavements and nothing is done about it?

  • Why don’t other pedestrians complain when they see an e-scooter driving on the pavements? The reason is simple: it is because either the pedestrians don’t have time to catch up with the e-scooter to complain at them (unless they run fast), or because they are shy. I think all pedestrians should be advised to try to stop an e-scooter driving on the pavement and to them complain to them or to the police. Otherwise they will never stop driving on the pavements. So the city or the police need to teach people to tackle e-scooters driving on the pavement. I have already started stopping them and in one case I called the police. I will continue to do this for as long as it takes and they are the ones who are provoking in the first place by driving them on the pavements. I urge others to do the same.

  • These e-scooters not only drive recklessly on the pavements but they also go through red lights and over zebra crossings without waiting for people to cross. By way of analogy in my above example: Why don’t cars and motorbikes go through red lights? Why don’t cars and motorbikes go straight over a zebra crossing without stopping? This is food for thought.

  • What is the police doing about all this? It seems they are not doing much. If they were, I would not see 3 or 4 e-scooters every day on the pavements within a short space of time. Imagine if I sat down at a certain spot all day in the city, I wonder how may I would see then in total driving on the pavements. Probably a lot, many more. Hence my complaints to the relevant authorities and the police.

  • I have started to take a video of them, if they have not directly bothered me, I am created a video clip bank with them all. As said above, if they directly affect me, i.e. the ride where I am walking I stop them.

  • All the same applies to cyclists as well who ride on the pavements, go through red lights and go over zebra crossing very fast. But at least the cyclists use their own manpower so in my mind I exercise a bit of leniency. But not for e-bicycles. Same applies for e-bicycles just as well for e-scooters.

  • There must be something that the police or the city can do about this terrible situation you have got the city into. Will the city consider to ban them all together? Hopefully. There is a much larger amount of the population which can get annoyed about these e-scooters versus only a small amount of the population who use them. On a balance, it makes sense to ban them.

  • From a car and motorbike driver’s perspective, car and motorbike drivers pay road taxes (Gebühren und Verkehrsabgaben) to drive their vehicles. The roads have been constructed and are being maintained partly through these taxes. If e-scooters are allowed to drive on the pavements (let alone on the roads or cycle lanes), why don’t they also have to pay the same taxes? Same applied to bicycles and e-bikes in this respect.

  • The swiss law should be invoked on «Bundesgesetz über die Währung und die Zahlungsmittel (WZG) vom 22. Dezember 1999» to ban them:
Art. 3 Annahmepflicht:
1 Jede Person ist gehalten, bis zu 100 schweizerische Umlaufmünzen an Zahlung zu nehmen. Umlauf-, Gedenk- und Anlagemünzen werden von der Schweizerischen Nationalbank und den öffentlichen Kassen des Bundes unbeschränkt zum Nennwert angenommen.
2 Schweizerische Banknoten müssen von jeder Person unbeschränkt an Zahlung genommen werden.
It’s discrimination if you need a smartphone, to rent them and not able to pay in cash. Pehaps it can be used as a loophole to ban them.

To conclude, an e-scooter is different that a bicycle. An e-scooter causes more stress and fear to pedestrians when people drive them on the pavements. So something needs to be done, specifically, in relation to all of these e-scooters driving on the pavements in the city.

If the city or the police does not sort this problem out soon, or if they don’t do anything to keep the e-scooters off the pavements, I will consider contacting my lawyer to see if I can reduce my taxes to the city by way of deductions or otherwise. I don’t think I should pay my full taxes if every time I walk the city’s pavements I am stressed by the thought that an e-scooter with zoom right past me on the pavement like it happened to me earlier.

I really never expected this chaos in Switzerland. We do not live in Paris you know.

Here is a lost of authorities I have contacted and complained to about:

- https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/prd/de/index/gleichstellung/kontakt.html
- https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/stadtpolizei_zuerich.html
- https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ted/de/index/taz.html
- https://www.kapo.zh.ch/internet/sicherheitsdirektion/kapo/de/jobs/berufsbild_polizist/bewerbung.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9qa86p3s5QIVx5-zCh0QQgP8EAAYASAAEgILH_D_BwE
- http://fussgaengerverein.ch/
- https://www.stadt.sg.ch/
- https://www.stadt.sg.ch/home/verwaltung-politik/direktionen/soziales-sicherheit/stadtpolizei.html
- https://www.sg.ch/sicherheit/kantonspolizei.html
- https://www.polizei.bs.ch/
- https://www.bs.ch/
- https://polizei.lu.ch/
- https://www.stadtluzern.ch/
- https://fussverkehr.ch/

and the following politicians:

Primary:
kontakt@barbaramarty.ch,
thierry.burkart@parl.ch,
g.theiler@sunrise.ch

Secondary:
juerg.grossen@parl.ch,
jurg.grossen@grunliberale.ch,
hans.grunder@grunder.ch,
sylvia.flueckiger@flueckiger-holz.ch,
info@gs-uvek.admin.ch,
vreni.hubmann@bluewin.ch,
matthias.aebischer@parl.ch,
daniel.jositsch@parl.ch,
ruedi@noser.com
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Old 15.11.2019, 14:28
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

Amen.
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Old 15.11.2019, 14:31
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

done over 1000kms on mine now.

I also can't stand people riding on the pavement, passing red lights etc. It's that crap that gets us all banned.
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Old 15.11.2019, 14:57
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Re: electric scooter - rules?



Good man! Keep the authorities busy - unless of course they stop reading after the second line, like I did. Was the "lost of authorities" a Freudian slip?

I did enjoy your html-code though, you even bothered to change font-style when you had no text to display in it.

I have only one question: <<I hate those people who ride and drive their e-scooters on the pavements, especially the rented ones>> why is that? Are you telling us you will sell these things here once you got 10 posts?
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Old 15.11.2019, 15:16
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Re: electric scooter - rules?

I always ride my e-scooter on the pavement.

Much safe than riding it on the sidewalk.

Tom
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