Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11.04.2017, 15:42
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sargans
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
tadzys has no particular reputation at present
Returning car to leasing

Hi,

So I leased a car with GE money bank (car was from a garage that doesn't exist anymore).
When I was returning I've signed a protocol (there were few scratches on the exterior).
A month later I receive a bill for ~9200 CHF, the buy out price of the car was 20K.
They have found way more damage, that was noted in car return protocol (the inspection was done by third party).

Of course I am trying to claim as much as possible from insurance, but this is of course unlikely.

Is there any chance for me to fight this? They are trying to charge me about half of the car value for a paint job.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11.04.2017, 15:53
ivank's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,673
Groaned at 65 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 1,422 Times in 789 Posts
ivank has an excellent reputationivank has an excellent reputationivank has an excellent reputationivank has an excellent reputation
Re: Returning car to leasing

Offer to buy the car out for 20k and try sell it yourself (unless they already paid for repairs)?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank ivank for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:06
papasmurf's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 403
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 458 Times in 166 Posts
papasmurf is considered knowledgeablepapasmurf is considered knowledgeablepapasmurf is considered knowledgeable
Re: Returning car to leasing

Did they itemise the damage they assessed after?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:08
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sargans
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
tadzys has no particular reputation at present
Re: Returning car to leasing

They've sold it already. Which is a bit suspicious, (when did they have time to do the all the repairs).
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sargans
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
tadzys has no particular reputation at present
Re: Returning car to leasing

Quote:
View Post
Did they itemise the damage they assessed after?

Yes, they did (attached).
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Scan from MFD.PDF (1.36 MB, 150 views)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:20
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,741
Groaned at 360 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Returning car to leasing

What did you do to the roof?

Did you sign off the damage of the car at the handover? (Above and beyond wear and tear)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:21
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 588
Groaned at 12 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 408 Times in 212 Posts
V__ has an excellent reputationV__ has an excellent reputationV__ has an excellent reputationV__ has an excellent reputation
Re: Returning car to leasing

Quote:
View Post
They've sold it already. Which is a bit suspicious, (when did they have time to do the all the repairs).
Maybe they auctioned it with no reserve or sold it to another garage "as is" as you agreed to pay almost half of the car value. Much easier to sell it for 11k as is plus 9k from you for total 20k rather than invest the 9k and try to sell it for more than 20 for the time spent.

I see a lot of garages are doing this lately
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank V__ for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:22
ivank's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,673
Groaned at 65 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 1,422 Times in 789 Posts
ivank has an excellent reputationivank has an excellent reputationivank has an excellent reputationivank has an excellent reputation
Re: Returning car to leasing

That looks like just an offer, not a bill, so I don't think you really have to pay any of that. Ask for the actual bill. If they didn't take up the offer, there's no damage done to them yet

Didn't read the whole list, but the very beginning looks very dubious already. Worn our tires - this is normal wear and tear. Cleaning - unless the protocol says car was dirty, I'd dispute that charge

In general you're only responsible for damages above normal wear and tear, and the offer looks like they're repairing everything they possible can in there. I'd compare with protocol and refuse to pay anything not mentioned in the protocol and that the insurance wouldn't cover
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank ivank for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:36
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 6,577
Groaned at 57 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 9,555 Times in 4,272 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Returning car to leasing

It already says in the expertise that there are no damages but only wear and tear "diverse Gebrauchsspuren innen und aussen". A problem would be "übermässige Gebrauchsspuren".

The expertise also does not list what is actually not o.k. but just what "has to be" replaced and fixed but not the reason why. Apart from the tires but they are also wear and tear and the rims which are listed as damaged by the edge.

Edit: The leasing contract may specify a min profile for the tires.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:47
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Samweiser has earned some respectSamweiser has earned some respect
Re: Returning car to leasing

This is exactly the sort of thing that is making me nervous. I am returning my car in just over 2 weeks and aside from small scuffs to the alloys (which I'm having professionally touched up next week) there is no damage to the car except for very, very small flecks on the paintwork (like under 5mm). Under Swiss law is there a minimum size for any "damage" to paintwork below which it has to be considered wear and tear - and is wear and tear legally not chargeable?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:56
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,256
Groaned at 183 Times in 143 Posts
Thanked 11,034 Times in 3,690 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Returning car to leasing

if you can charge 180 CHF per hour for car repairs, i chose the wrong career path.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Nyon
Posts: 476
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 461 Times in 238 Posts
Rachel Moore has earned the respect of manyRachel Moore has earned the respect of manyRachel Moore has earned the respect of many
Re: Returning car to leasing

Hi there, maybe a silly question but on the day you returned the car, did you remember to take pictures of every exterior angle, the interior (mileage included), the engine bay?


I don't speak German so I am unable to tell if all the stuff mentioned on the list is simply cosmetic, i.e. bodywork, or does it also mention anything on the mechanical side? If it does I guess pictures of the log book and any service history as well (never leased, but I would imagine you are held to follow the recommended service schedules)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11.04.2017, 17:08
papasmurf's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 403
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 458 Times in 166 Posts
papasmurf is considered knowledgeablepapasmurf is considered knowledgeablepapasmurf is considered knowledgeable
Re: Returning car to leasing

Looks like they are quoting/charging for replacing a ton of the rubber seals on doors and windows. Cleaned the leather and interior. Painted bumpers, wings and roof. New tyres - winter, fixed the edges of the alloys.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11.04.2017, 17:21
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sargans
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
tadzys has no particular reputation at present
Re: Returning car to leasing

Quote:
View Post
Looks like they are quoting/charging for replacing a ton of the rubber seals on doors and windows. Cleaned the leather and interior. Painted bumpers, wings and roof. New tyres - winter, fixed the edges of the alloys.
Thanks for quick reply, for they tyres they said the protector is worn out (by law it has to be 3mm), which again I somehow doubt, they were in good shape.

And on return form I have signed only damage to front bumper (left and right) which was me... And some damage on right front door.

looks like they've decided to make it a brand new car (appart from the engine).

Just wondering if somebody has a legal experience in this kind of situation.
Don't want to end up paying to lawyer and then still paying the bill
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11.04.2017, 18:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,246
Groaned at 136 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 5,501 Times in 2,780 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Returning car to leasing

Quote:
View Post
if you can charge 180 CHF per hour for car repairs, i chose the wrong career path.
My thoughts. And OP isn't even in Zürich, he's in Sargans!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11.04.2017, 18:52
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 14,954
Groaned at 220 Times in 192 Posts
Thanked 12,256 Times in 6,899 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Returning car to leasing

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for quick reply, for they tyres they said the protector is worn out (by law it has to be 3mm), which again I somehow doubt, they were in good shape.

And on return form I have signed only damage to front bumper (left and right) which was me... And some damage on right front door.

looks like they've decided to make it a brand new car (appart from the engine).

Just wondering if somebody has a legal experience in this kind of situation.
Don't want to end up paying to lawyer and then still paying the bill
Tyres need ho have 1.6mm by law, choosing to change tyres early might be a good idea.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 11.04.2017, 19:16
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 130
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 99 Times in 58 Posts
theUser has earned some respecttheUser has earned some respect
Re: Returning car to leasing

You can and should dispute every single item on the repair estimate that is not directly related to the damage you agreed to when returning the car (meaning everything except the paint job for the bumpers and the door).
They can claim the roof needs painting but you have no proof that it wasn't damaged during transport after the car was handed over.
Even if tyres needed replacement it would still fall under normal wear and tear for age and mileage of the car. And even if they do no fall under normal tear and wear you should be given a choice to supply a set of your own choice comparable in quality to the ones originally fitted to the car.

I was in a similar situation last year after returning the car to the leasing company but for a lesser amount (around CHF 800 of extra 'thingies' not noted on the handover form) and they backed off when I requested to have all parts that were supposedly replaced returned to me (they claimed they needed to replace the entire rear bumper because of a minor dent).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank theUser for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 11.04.2017, 23:33
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 3,548
Groaned at 35 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,584 Times in 1,913 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Returning car to leasing

Kotflügelverbreiterung?? Wintertires?? Türverkleidung? Türgriffe? And they seem to have painted the entire car?
They made a new car on your expenses. I don't know anything about leasing but I'm sure it's like an appartement: One returns a used car?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 12.04.2017, 08:29
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,741
Groaned at 360 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Returning car to leasing

Quote:
View Post
I don't know anything about leasing but I'm sure it's like an appartement: One returns a used car?
Every good forum thread needs a "I don't know anything about XXX but I sure its like YYY"

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 12.04.2017, 09:42
Horatio Gonzales's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Luzern
Posts: 393
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 112 Times in 63 Posts
Horatio Gonzales has earned some respectHoratio Gonzales has earned some respect
Re: Returning car to leasing

Leasing - Ugh! Sounds like a free for all on "Scr3w the Customer".

How much does a Lawyer charge/hour. I'd probably invest my money there. They sound like Shysters to me, the Dealers, that is.

I had a write off in 2016 - not leased but somewhat related to your position. The assessor gave a serious low ball figure on the value of my car. I rejected his offers maybe seven times & backed it up with Market data. I got what I wanted in the end. Stick to your guns & support your position with data. In your case the handover protocol.

Makes me mad this carry on.

Good luck & be strong.
H.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Horatio Gonzales for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
car, charges, damages, leasing




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buying a car Vs car leasing on the taxes profile edo777 Finance/banking/taxation 6 25.08.2016 12:48
90K salary to buy 26k new car was rejected by leasing bank? capomme Transportation/driving 47 07.08.2013 10:15
Trade in existing car and Leasing used car at a dealership MaxMan Transportation/driving 13 13.01.2012 02:58
How to show a car leasing on a company balance sheet vydetra2 Finance/banking/taxation 0 27.04.2010 14:17
Selling CH Car returning to UK ChangedByAMod024 Transportation/driving 2 27.05.2009 22:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0