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  #61  
Old 29.05.2017, 18:42
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Re: Highway driving

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That's not what Fish Paste claims.

Keep moving the goalpost.
What I'm claiming is most of the lane hogging and tail gating is commited by the Swiss.
As the Swiss make up 3 out of every 4 drivers in the Swiss registered cars, I fail to see how anyone can reach any other conclusion.

And that's just the maths. Add that to the Swiss behaviours which we've all come to know and love, and it becomes undisputable.
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  #62  
Old 29.05.2017, 21:38
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Re: Highway driving

So it's down from 100% to 75%. At least a start. Now take all the rest into account and we're talking. As you say yourself: simple maths.
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  #63  
Old 29.05.2017, 22:14
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Re: Highway driving

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So it's down from 100% to 75%. At least a start. Now take all the rest into account and we're talking. As you say yourself: simple maths.
It was never 100% anyway, and in fact I never even went 75%.
What I clearly said was the majority of the tail gating and lane hogging is caused by the Swiss.
Ergo, fact.

Arguing reinforces the stereo type of the Swiss. Thanks.
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  #64  
Old 29.05.2017, 22:37
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Re: Highway driving

It happens in all countries, and as long as we cannot overtake on the
inside, it will continue in all those countries with an effective rule of law.

Remember; if there are two people in a car, and they are unrelated by
marriage or birth, they can effectively prosecute the erring driver. The
police would have two witnesses against him, but he would only possibly
have one witness, his passenger, acting for him.
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  #65  
Old 29.05.2017, 23:33
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Re: Highway driving

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It was never 100% anyway, and in fact I never even went 75%.
What I clearly said was the majority of the tail gating and lane hogging is caused by the Swiss.
Ergo, fact.

Arguing reinforces the stereo type of the Swiss. Thanks.
What you did say is that you it's caused by the Swiss, without qualificatin and without any hint that foreign drivers play a role as well.

So yes, your initial claim is indeed BS. And thank you for making my case now.
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  #66  
Old 30.05.2017, 08:53
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Re: Highway driving

I don't know, nor really care, if it's Swiss or foreign drivers who are the worst offenders, but there are some aspects of this behavior that really annoy me, which may, or may not, fit any particular national (or indeed gender, despite being written as masculine) stereotype.

The guy at the front of a queue. This one has space in front of him and could easily move over to the inside lane, but knows that he'll need to move back out again in a couple of minutes so can't be bothered. Besides, he's driving at the speed limit, so all the cars sitting in the left lane behind him shouldn't be wanting to go any faster anyway.

The .5kph overtaker. He's in the 'fast' lane, going, on average, very slightly faster than the cats on the right. He can't move right as there's no gap (hardly surprising as he's still next to the same car he's been 'overtaking' for the last five minutes) but the possibility of slightly speeding up (over the limit! Gasp! ) or even slowing down for a second or two to allow him to move across never occurs to him.

The serial gap-closer. So there are two lanes moving at about the same speed, but the left one occasionally demonstrates the well-known concertina effect, as someone needs to brake slightly, then cars too close behind need to brake progressively harder. My answer to this is often to switch to the inside lane, which usually flows more smoothly, so I can avoid the sudden braking and acceleration. But of course there's the dick on your left who was already behind you, but now makes it his special mission to prevent you moving back out when the left lane starts to flow again.

The Autobahn driver.
Not quite so common in CH, but this one simply drives as fast as he can, coming up on your tail at a great place, then tailgating and flashing, despite all the rest of the traffic in front of you. Open your eyes and look ahead, you idiot.

There are others, but I think these are the most annoying. Do they fit with the idea of typical Swiss behaviour?
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  #67  
Old 30.05.2017, 09:21
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Re: Highway driving

I think those are stereotypically bad driving habits and maybe some more prevailent here than elsewhere but by ever so little...it almost doesn't matter. It is still a breeze here.

The worse drivers for me were in areas with no roads (well, anything seemed to be a road or some kind of driveable sandy surface) and when my country became a transit country: I always thought locals drive like maniacs before I realized they are just trying to survive in growing clouds of transitters.

It is the easiest to drive in the US, for me. No passive aggressive nutin'. Just avoiding the enraged SUVed soccer moms.

I like public transport so don't drive here much lately, but it is not so bad. Roadwork restrictions are annoying because people are slowpokes, but that's all.
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  #68  
Old 30.05.2017, 09:24
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Re: Highway driving

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I don't know, nor really care, if it's Swiss or foreign drivers who are the worst offenders, but there are some aspects of this behavior that really annoy me, which may, or may not, fit any particular national (or indeed gender, despite being written as masculine) stereotype.

The guy at the front of a queue. This one has space in front of him and could easily move over to the inside lane, but knows that he'll need to move back out again in a couple of minutes so can't be bothered. Besides, he's driving at the speed limit, so all the cars sitting in the left lane behind him shouldn't be wanting to go any faster anyway.

The .5kph overtaker. He's in the 'fast' lane, going, on average, very slightly faster than the cats on the right. He can't move right as there's no gap (hardly surprising as he's still next to the same car he's been 'overtaking' for the last five minutes) but the possibility of slightly speeding up (over the limit! Gasp! ) or even slowing down for a second or two to allow him to move across never occurs to him.

The serial gap-closer. So there are two lanes moving at about the same speed, but the left one occasionally demonstrates the well-known concertina effect, as someone needs to brake slightly, then cars too close behind need to brake progressively harder. My answer to this is often to switch to the inside lane, which usually flows more smoothly, so I can avoid the sudden braking and acceleration. But of course there's the dick on your left who was already behind you, but now makes it his special mission to prevent you moving back out when the left lane starts to flow again.

The Autobahn driver.
Not quite so common in CH, but this one simply drives as fast as he can, coming up on your tail at a great place, then tailgating and flashing, despite all the rest of the traffic in front of you. Open your eyes and look ahead, you idiot.

There are others, but I think these are the most annoying. Do they fit with the idea of typical Swiss behaviour?
You forgot one.

The EF member. He is perfectly compliant to all traffic rules and extremely frustrated by other drivers' driving skills (he calls them "Swiss drivers"). At home, he posts on internet forums about his angry feelings.
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  #69  
Old 30.05.2017, 09:40
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Re: Highway driving

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It is the easiest to drive in the US, for me. No passive aggressive nutin'. Just avoiding the enraged SUVed soccer moms.
It's gotten worse, though. In the past 20 years, road conditions have deteriorated and congestion has increased. Now on the highways around the major population centers (SF, LA, the East Coast megalopolis), people often drive like they do here - right up each others's asses, with the fear that if you leave a decent distance between yourself and the car in front, then some other driver will try to move into that space, causing a dangerous situation.

collective stupidity.
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Old 30.05.2017, 09:44
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Re: Highway driving

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You forgot one.

The EF member. He is perfectly compliant to all traffic rules and extremely frustrated by other drivers' driving skills (he calls them "Swiss drivers"). At home, he posts on internet forums about his angry feelings.
There is a second type of EF member: After a long time here in Switzerland he/she has learned to accept that the Swiss just follow closer than where they came from. Then, after a long pause between visit,s they go back to their country of origin and discover that nobody, but nobody, observes the 2 second rule there either.
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  #71  
Old 30.05.2017, 10:01
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Re: Highway driving

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It's gotten worse, though. In the past 20 years, road conditions have deteriorated and congestion has increased. Now on the highways around the major population centers (SF, LA, the East Coast megalopolis), people often drive like they do here - right up each others's asses, with the fear that if you leave a decent distance between yourself and the car in front, then some other driver will try to move into that space, causing a dangerous situation.

collective stupidity.
It is way better to take Muni, tbh, in SF. Those amphibian trams/subway trains are awesome, cost 50cent a ride. But yeah, it is true that sitting in the American commuter traffic for hours on everyday is probably a nightmare. Carpooling doesn't really help. I am big on collective transport, though carring kilos of manuals/textbooks/papers/sheetmuzak and art stuff with me sucks. It still seems that people who drive don't usually arrive exactly fresh and happy, while public transport folks get to their destination quite relaxed. (Unless they have to maneuvre wiggly kids and babies, pushchairs and groceries)
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  #72  
Old 30.05.2017, 10:23
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Re: Highway driving

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It is way better to take Muni, tbh, in SF. Those amphibian trams/subway trains are awesome, cost 50cent a ride. But yeah, it is true that sitting in the American commuter traffic for hours on everyday is probably a nightmare. Carpooling doesn't really help. I am big on collective transport, though carring kilos of manuals/textbooks/papers/sheetmuzak and art stuff with me sucks. It still seems that people who drive don't usually arrive exactly fresh and happy, while public transport folks get to their destination quite relaxed. (Unless they have to maneuvre wiggly kids and babies, pushchairs and groceries)
I arrived in SF after many years in Hawaii, where the max speed limit is 50mph, and nobody's generally in a hurry, and more or less courteous on the road - where people understand that driving like a dick makes you a dick.. What a culture shock, incredibly dangerous in SF! I had grandmas doing illegal double lane changes just to get one car ahead of me in a traffic jam, lol. The only people chilled out enough to be safe drivers in SF are the Mexicans
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  #73  
Old 30.05.2017, 10:42
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Re: Highway driving

The rudest drivers on the road are those drivers who no matter how fast you drive stick to your rear bumper with their blue lights flashing.

They're all Swiss though so I guess it is to be expected.

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  #74  
Old 30.05.2017, 11:04
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Re: Highway driving

Last week, on the A1 toward Zurich, just before BrÜttisellen. Almost at the end of construction, but the speed limit is still 80 and the lanes are still marked in orange. We're in the right lane, doing 80. In the middle lane a motorcycle comes up and is almost pushed into us by an asshole in a Porsche flashing and honking behind the bike. The bike got in front of us and the Porsche accelerated past. One of the more assholic demonstrations of driving.
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  #75  
Old 30.05.2017, 11:18
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Re: Highway driving

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It's gotten worse, though. In the past 20 years, road conditions have deteriorated and congestion has increased. Now on the highways around the major population centers (SF, LA, the East Coast megalopolis), people often drive like they do here - right up each others's asses, with the fear that if you leave a decent distance between yourself and the car in front, then some other driver will try to move into that space, causing a dangerous situation.

collective stupidity.

Spending some quality time in NJ/NY lately and its just as bad (if not worse) than here. Even on the open parts of the highway, people won't move out of the left lane. GGGRRRRRRR!!!!!!
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  #76  
Old 30.05.2017, 17:32
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Re: Highway driving

OK - here is what I'm reading based on my original post.

When there is traffic, and the left lane is blocked while the right is empty-
I need to stay in the left lane.
If I choose to move to the right lane I will need to match the speed of the cars in the left lane.
If I choose to move to the right lane and I pass any cars, then I am making an illegal driving condition and have the chance of being fined/ticketed.

Did I get that correctly.
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  #77  
Old 30.05.2017, 17:40
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Re: Highway driving

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OK - here is what I'm reading based on my original post.

When there is traffic, and the left lane is blocked while the right is empty-
I need to stay in the left lane. NO, you should be a good example and use the empty right as mandated by law.
If I choose to move to the right lane I will need to match the speed of the cars in the left lane. Maybe. You are at least safer when you do. But in some cases you can go faster.
If I choose to move to the right lane and I pass any cars, then I am making an illegal driving condition and have the chance of being fined/ticketed. Maybe. It depends on the situation. In some cases it is perfectly fine.

Did I get that correctly.
Want more elaboration on the maybe part?
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  #78  
Old 30.05.2017, 18:21
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Re: Highway driving

I always go back to the right lane when I'm done overtaking.
I make an exception and remain in the left when there is another vehicle in the right which I will need to pass within the next 10sec or so.
If I'm cruising on the right and the left lane slows down, I simply continue on, maybe slow down a bit and foot ready on the brakes for idiots who will change without looking.
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  #79  
Old 30.05.2017, 21:53
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Re: Highway driving

OK - now I'm Totally confused.... Your responses seem opposite to what everyone else was saying...... From what everyone else said about the law - if I overtake someone (while I'm in the right lane) it's illegal.
The use of "Maybe" and "In Some cases" doesn't make me feel confident.


When there is traffic, and the left lane is blocked while the right is empty-
I need to stay in the left lane. NO, you should be a good example and use the empty right as mandated by law.
If I choose to move to the right lane I will need to match the speed of the cars in the left lane. Maybe. You are at least safer when you do. But in some cases you can go faster.
If I choose to move to the right lane and I pass any cars, then I am making an illegal driving condition and have the chance of being fined/ticketed. Maybe. It depends on the situation. In some cases it is perfectly fine.

Did I get that correctly.
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Old 30.05.2017, 22:12
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Re: Highway driving

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OK - now I'm Totally confused.... Your responses seem opposite to what everyone else was saying...... From what everyone else said about the law - if I overtake someone (while I'm in the right lane) it's illegal.
The use of "Maybe" and "In Some cases" doesn't make me feel confident.


When there is traffic, and the left lane is blocked while the right is empty-
I need to stay in the left lane. NO, you should be a good example and use the empty right as mandated by law.
If I choose to move to the right lane I will need to match the speed of the cars in the left lane. Maybe. You are at least safer when you do. But in some cases you can go faster.
If I choose to move to the right lane and I pass any cars, then I am making an illegal driving condition and have the chance of being fined/ticketed. Maybe. It depends on the situation. In some cases it is perfectly fine.
Did I get that correctly.
There is the difference of passing someone on the right lane (within the speed limit) and overtaking somebody (= after you passed him by you change to the left). Latter is illegal, big time.
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