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  #41  
Old 05.06.2017, 10:45
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Re: Holiday advice needed

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You're right, LOL. Strangely enough the title in post 1 is correct, in all the other posts it's wrong. I only checked post 1 - my mistake.
Once the thread title is edited the first post, and any direct replies to it, automatically use the corrected version.
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  #42  
Old 05.06.2017, 10:48
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Re: Holiday advise needed

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I think the C/S in a verb versus a noun get messed up when people's ears take over instead of their visual input/autocorrection.
To me the two words sound completely different anyway. In advice the c is pronounced as in vice, twice, mice, device, price; in advise the s sounds like an English 'z' as in wise.
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  #43  
Old 05.06.2017, 11:04
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Re: Holiday advise needed

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To me the two words sound completely different anyway. In advice the c is pronounced as in vice, twice, mice, device, price; in advise the s sounds like an English 'z' as in wise.
The trouble with English, of course, is that just when you think you've spotted a pattern, or a rule, you then start to find all sorts of exceptions to it.

Concise vs. excise, for example. Or disease vs. increase.

Not helped, of course, by various attempts to standardise, or standardize, spellings over the last few hundred years, many of which have simply increased the confusion.

Still, it's great for those of us native speakers who enjoy picking up Americans on their poor language skills, eh?
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  #44  
Old 05.06.2017, 11:16
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Re: Holiday advice needed

In case you mean me, I wasn't actually picking on anyone. I was just surprised at MC explanation of the problem. To me it is not a visual or an acoustic problem but simply confusing the two words. Easy enough to do. As you say, there are masses of exceptions anyway.

These days Î nearly always have a second window open on my computer to check the words I myself write if they look odd as I am by no means as sure of my spelling as I used to be.
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Old 05.06.2017, 11:18
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Re: Holiday advice needed

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These days Î nearly always have a second window open on my computer to check the words which look odd as I am by no means as sure of my spelling as I used to be.
You wouldn't happen to have a URL to a website, or a program, which checks your comma usage on the fly, would you?
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  #46  
Old 05.06.2017, 11:20
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Re: Holiday advice needed

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You wouldn't happen to have a URL to a website, or a program, which checks your comma usage on the fly, would you?
No. I read my text through and if I want to make it clearer to read by dividing a sentence into bits, I stick one in! Bad habit but on here my goal is to make my posts comprehensible. I learned where commas belong a long, long time ago; having since learned different rules in German, which I cannot remember either, I've given up I think.
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Old 05.06.2017, 11:27
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Re: Holiday advice needed

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No. I read my text through and if I want to make it clearer to read by dividing a sentence into bits, I stick one in! Bad habit but on here my goal is to make my posts comprehensible. I learned where commas belong a long, long time ago; having since learned different rules in German, which I cannot remember either, I've given up I think.
Same here. I sometimes think I should just stop using commas and include a large comma shaker with each of my posts instead - sort of like condiments in a restaurant.
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  #48  
Old 05.06.2017, 11:38
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Re: Holiday advice needed

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Same here. I sometimes think I should just stop using commas and include a large comma shaker with each of my posts instead - sort of like condiments in a restaurant.
To be quite honest, that is exactly what I tell my family when they ask about comma rules.
Write a sentence.
Take a small pinch of commas.
Sprinkle evenly over the text.
Serve immediately.
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  #49  
Old 05.06.2017, 11:46
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Re: Holiday advice needed

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To be quite honest, that is exactly what I tell my family when they ask about comma rules.
Write a sentence.
Take a small pinch of commas.
Sprinkle evenly over the text.
Serve immediately.
It's a good analogy, as long as your sentences don't end up being digested to become the same thing as your meal does.
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  #50  
Old 05.06.2017, 11:48
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Re: Holiday advice needed

You doubtless mean that they would be food for thought for some and give energy to others who need more staying power?
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  #51  
Old 05.06.2017, 11:51
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Re: Holiday advice needed

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You doubtless mean that they would be food for thought for some and give energy to others who need more staying power?
I was thinking more of the longer term results of the digestion process.
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  #52  
Old 05.06.2017, 12:10
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Re: Holiday advise needed

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The trouble with English, of course, is that just when you think you've spotted a pattern, or a rule, you then start to find all sorts of exceptions to it.

Concise vs. excise, for example. Or disease vs. increase.

Not helped, of course, by various attempts to standardise, or standardize, spellings over the last few hundred years, many of which have simply increased the confusion.

Still, it's great for those of us native speakers who enjoy picking up Americans on their poor language skills, eh?
I think it is a pattern imprint for some and ears feed it - c/s are fricatives that blur into similar unvoiced mess when spoken fast (spoken - ears imprint). If it is pronounced in a decent slow pace, than the distinction is clear. I doubt k_e actually reads out loud when he types his messages to us.

It's ok, I am not American but their phonetic laziness is far easier to unconsciously adopt and autimatize than other regional phonetic systems. For a non native, it is parasitical in a fun way. My original Lancashire accent only pops up when I get angry and snap, it surprises me. Longbyt has been following my posts around for a while, what do we know we will be pedantic with when we get old..I know she doesn't realize it might be creepy at times and I take it she wants to help, local style. I just had an older family member importantly organize batterries in my desk, pointing out the importance of organized batteries. Right.

Standardization is a weird process, corpus linguists get off by "legalizing" mistakes and justify it by registered frequency of the collective brainfarts, while others still process the outrage. I do like the partisan aspect of it, language knows no class, really. What twitter and fb talk bring to it, we will see in a few years. Covfefe is on its way, lol.

The comma question is interesting - Slavs defo use a lot more commas than other languages. I always feel I don't "season" my texts enough with them, whatever foreign language it is. It is annoying. Let me blow off some steam ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,, ,,,,,, ,,,, , , ,,,,,
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  #53  
Old 05.06.2017, 13:12
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Re: Holiday advise needed

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It's ok, I am not American but their phonetic laziness is far easier to unconsciously adopt and autimatize than other regional phonetic systems.
,
huh?
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  #54  
Old 05.06.2017, 13:30
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Re: Holiday advise needed

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Yes it is. It's in the thread title, and was repeated in post 14.



Sure, that's understood. It's part of my job to be sympathetic, particularly when mistakes are made by non-native speakers. That's why I say I rarely, if ever, point them out on forums. But advise / advice is one that has irked me, for reasons mentioned earlier. Is it that people are simply not aware of the two different words? Or that they know, but get them mixed up? (Though they nearly always say "advise" for both; rarely, it seems, do they use "advice" for both.)
I can't answer for everyone but I know for sure I too can make this mistake when I'm in a hurry to write something...I know they're different words but I just mix them up in writing, not in speaking. Some sort of ADHD here.
(right, we all have some excuses these days, don't we )

But if we try to find a pattern re. why this mistake is more common than other mistakes among the non-native speakers in general, I think Ace1 has nailed it

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The trouble with English, of course, is that just when you think you've spotted a pattern, or a rule, you then start to find all sorts of exceptions to it.

Concise vs. excise, for example. Or disease vs. increase.

Not helped, of course, by various attempts to standardise, or standardize, spellings over the last few hundred years, many of which have simply increased the confusion.

Last edited by greenmount; 05.06.2017 at 13:44.
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Old 05.06.2017, 14:30
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Re: Holiday advise needed

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huh?
Except Hawaii.
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  #56  
Old 05.06.2017, 14:39
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Re: Holiday advise needed

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....... Not helped, of course, by various attempts to standardise, or standardize, spellings over the last few hundred years, many of which have simply increased the confusion.

Still, it's great for those of us native speakers who enjoy picking up Americans on their poor language skills, eh?
And then you have these non native speakers who learnt their English from "all of you". While over the years - having grown up with Americans - I use more British words than American ones now (words like "fall" for autumn fell out of my vocabulary completely), I kept to the American spelling, using the "z" (.... standardize).

And when I talk about car parts, apparently I have a Scottish accent because it was a Scottish guy's car that kept breaking down and I got the chance to learn all the words (including some swear words)

My Swiss German is the same. I lived in so many places in this country that it now is a "true" Swiss German and not cantonal.

Languages can show who you spent your life with and where you've been to.

With that said and going back to the thread title: OP, go to a country where people speak a type of English which is not in your vocabulary yet
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Old 05.06.2017, 14:40
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Re: Holiday advise needed

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Except Hawaii.
ho, bruddah! Dey da worse!..
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Old 05.06.2017, 14:44
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Re: Holiday advise needed

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And when I talk about car parts, apparently I have a Scottish accent because it was a Scottish guy's car that kept breaking down and I got the chance to learn all the words (including some swear words)
Scottish is the perfect language to describe car parts... you only need a single universal term: "Damty thing!"
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Old 05.06.2017, 15:14
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Re: Holiday advise needed

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Longbyt has been following my posts around for a while, what do we know we will be pedantic with when we get old..I know she doesn't realize it might be creepy at times and I take it she wants to help, local style.
i didn't get pedantic as I got older. I was pedantic, critical and not popular when I was young. That's why I was so good at my job.
I suppose I dislike spelling mistakes and incorrect grammar forms which might make it difficult for those learning English. It's just bad luck on the more highly qualified and more knowledgeable folk on here that I expect even higher standards from them.

Having spent many years trying to iron out ingrained mistakes in my 'pupils',
errors which were permitted out of 'let's not be so critical' I suppose it is deformation professionelle.
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Old 05.06.2017, 15:46
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Re: Holiday advise needed

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i didn't get pedantic as I got older. I was pedantic, critical and not popular when I was young. That's why I was so good at my job.
I suppose I dislike spelling mistakes and incorrect grammar forms which might make it difficult for those learning English. It's just bad luck on the more highly qualified and more knowledgeable folk on here that I expect even higher standards from them.

Having spent many years trying to iron out ingrained mistakes in my 'pupils',
errors which were permitted out of 'let's not be so critical' I suppose it is deformation professionelle.
High standards are relative, but to assume just because people chitchat online certain way they must be the same way at work/private life, etc. is simplistic. I think the beauty of online platform is exactly that: you can slack in silly things or focus on something else. To have a gripe with it is as useless as trying to tell the language codifiers that the newly accepted forms should never make it to our dictionaries.

To walk around casual conversations and bug people with dictionary forms of vocab and tell them they are wrong, is drab. To assume they don't know is naieve. But most people are not learning English here in fact...or I hope not, lol. EF is not a tiny mountain village with no other access to English.

I like when people care, they should. Pragma linguistics which I like..will probably point out a particular time and place, even for professional deformations, in order to make communication more efficient and make people want to communicate

I don't think k_e will go on holidays to the UK to relearn proper English
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