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Old 27.06.2017, 14:30
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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If anything happens police will ask around and quickly find it has been here for more than just a few days thus should have been officially imported, which didn't happen. Thus illegal to drive.

Or am I mistaken in thinking it must be registered at the customs?
Must be declared on entry is the way I read this.

"Unverzollte Fahrzeuge sind beim Grenzübertritt unverzüglich und unaufgefordert zur Zollbehandlung anzumelden (Selbstveranlagungsprinzip)."

and

"Personen, die die Zollanmeldung ihres Fahrzeuges bislang nicht vorgenommen haben, werden aufgefordert, sich zur Zollbehandlung des Fahrzeuges bei einer Zollstelle zu melden. Wer Fahrzeuge nicht zur Zollbehandlung anmeldet, macht sich strafbar. Zudem muss mit einer Nachforderung der Einfuhrabgaben gerechnet werden."

are pretty clear.
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Old 27.06.2017, 14:48
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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If anything happens police will ask around and quickly find it has been here for more than just a few days thus should have been officially imported, which didn't happen. Thus illegal to drive.
Illegal to use Small but important detail.

But only from tax and duty perspective but not from traffic law perspective. As long as it is properly insured and in road safe condition there is no issue.

"Personen, die die Zollanmeldung ihres Fahrzeuges bislang nicht vorgenommen haben, werden aufgefordert, sich zur Zollbehandlung des Fahrzeuges bei einer Zollstelle zu melden"

reads: "Person which did not declare their vehicle so far are kindly requested to pop into the nearest customs office and do so"

Here the customs office, some are inside the country, no need to drive to the border. Declare vehicle and get your form 15.30
http://www.pwebapps.ezv.admin.ch/apps/dst/?lang=4
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Old 27.06.2017, 14:50
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

It is not illegal to drive it, it is a customs violation.

I.e. you are subject to a fine.

Tom
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Old 27.06.2017, 16:07
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

I think it all depends on canton, unfortunately, as probably it is not clear if police can make such investigation on behalf of customs. But I can only presume. Had similar situation last year - was driving my EU plates car with my driver's license from my country of origin while being a swiss resident - so police stopped me, ordered the exchange of the license (as I was in CH since over one year) and just told me that with the swiss license I wouldn't be able to drive a non-swiss car. I was controlled couple of times on the border but never got a question about the car.
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Old 27.06.2017, 16:28
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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so police stopped me, ordered the exchange of the license (as I was in CH since over one year)
If they knew the law or applied the law they could have reported you for driving with a non-valid license. A very costly experience and 6 month ban (minimum by law Art. 15e SVG https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a15e) could have been the result.


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and just told me that with the swiss license I wouldn't be able to drive a non-swiss car.
Police Wrong. Origin of driving license and origin or license plate of the car have nothing to do with each other. It is just easier to spot that something may be amiss and not in order.


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I was controlled couple of times on the border but never got a question about the car.
You have to declare on your own, even if not questioned.
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Old 27.06.2017, 16:51
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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If they knew the law or applied the law they could have reported you for driving with a non-valid license. A very costly experience and 6 month ban (minimum by law Art. 15e SVG https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a15e) could have been the result.
It's not 15e that applies, because I have a driver's license, it's the ordonnance that stipulates that I should change it to the swiss one after one year if I want to drive a car

L’article 42 de l’Ordonnance réglant l’admission des personnes et des véhicules à la circulation routière (OAC, RS 741.51)

According to custom it's illegal to drive a non swiss car having a swiss driver's licence, it's a convention relative a l'admission temporaire that applies.
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Old 27.06.2017, 16:57
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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According to custom it's illegal to drive a non swiss car having a swiss driver's licence.
Not true.

You aren't supposed to drive a non-Swiss car in CH if you are resident in CH, it doesn't matter if you have a Swiss license or not.

Same is true of EU residents driving Swiss registered vehicles in the EU.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 27.06.2017 at 17:12. Reason: fixed
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Old 27.06.2017, 17:08
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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Not true.

You aren't supposed to drive a non-Swiss car if you are resident in CH, it doesn't matter if you have a Swiss license or not.

Same is true of EU residents and Swiss registered vehicles.

Tom
Aren't the actual issues more like
- "crossing the border to EU in a car with CH plates as when EU resident"
- "crossing the border to CH in a car with EU plates as when CH resident"$

Edit, also see
https://www.englishforum.ch/transpor...k-license.html and
https://www.thelocal.ch/20140606/ger...border-mistake

Otherwise, you just said I can't hire a car in, say, the UK

Last edited by gbn; 27.06.2017 at 17:20.
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Old 27.06.2017, 17:08
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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It's not 15e that applies, because I have a driver's license, it's the ordonnance that stipulates that I should change it to the swiss one after one year if I want to drive a car

L’article 42 de l’Ordonnance réglant l’admission des personnes et des véhicules à la circulation routière (OAC, RS 741.51)
Art. 42 VZV (the ordinance) https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a42 specifies that a foreign license is no longer valid after one year of residence.

Art. 15e SVG (the law which is the base for the ordinance) says what happens if you drive but have no valid driving license. It is also SVG which specifies in Art. 95 https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a95 the other consequences (fine or jail) for driving w/o a valid license.

(Used the German abbreviations as I know them by heart)

There is a case somewhere here on EF where the authorities played by the book.

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According to custom it's illegal to drive a non swiss car having a swiss driver's licence, it's a convention relative a l'admission temporaire that applies.
Challenge you on that (as I have many before and all failed).
1. There is simply no law. Bu you can link to the law an proof me wrong.
2. There is a law which says use and not drive.
3. There is a big importance between using and driving. A chauffeur is driving but not necessarily using.
4. Said law is only about Swiss residents and does not mention the driving license at all. For very good reason the driving license is not mentioned.
5. There are exceptions. When you can use
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Old 27.06.2017, 17:09
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

So apparently police has different approach as they only told me to change my driver's license and then told me it would be illegal to drive a non swiss car.
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Old 27.06.2017, 17:15
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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S... be illegal to drive a non swiss car.
This is *incomplete*, see my last post above
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Old 27.06.2017, 17:16
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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Aren't the actual issues more like
- "crossing the border to EU in a car with CH plates as when EU resident"
- "crossing the border to CH in a car with EU plates as when CH resident"

Otherwise, you just said I can't hire a car in, say, the UK
Yes, I fixed my post.

Tom
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Old 27.06.2017, 17:20
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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Challenge you on that (as I have many before and all failed).
1. There is simply no law. Bu you can link to the law an proof me wrong.
2. There is a law which says use and not drive.
3. There is a big importance between using and driving. A chauffeur is driving but not necessarily using.
4. Said law is only about Swiss residents and does not mention the driving license at all. For very good reason the driving license is not mentioned.
5. There are exceptions. When you can use
I found my answer on the geneva canton site and am sharing my experience. So you can challenge police fribourgeoise and geneva authorities.
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Old 27.06.2017, 17:27
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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I found my answer on the geneva canton site and am sharing my experience. So you can challenge police fribourgeoise and geneva authorities.
So post the link here please.
Note: no-one agrees with you on this...
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Old 27.06.2017, 17:29
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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I found my answer on the geneva canton site and am sharing my experience. So you can challenge police fribourgeoise and geneva authorities.
I have my answers from Swiss customs. and reading the actual law. As long as you can not cite, and you will be unable to do so, an actual law which forbids to drive a foreign registered car with a Swiss driving license I firmly believe my view is true and correct. It is residency and residency only that maters.

The police is known to simplify things and even "lie" to people.

For Geneva http://ge.ch/vehicules/faq/permis-de-conduire#t5n52 This does not mention driving license either, just residency. But you are still free to link to the Geneva site where they mention Swiss driving permit.

Just one example where it is perfectly o.k: A former Swiss resident moves aboard but has not changed his license yet. He has a car registered and plated at his new place of resident. Perfectly o.k. fro this person to drive this car in Switzerland.

And even as a Swiss resident it is perfectly o.k. as long as you follow the correct procedure, get approval, and have the correct forms.
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Old 27.06.2017, 17:48
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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I have my answers from Swiss customs. and reading the actual law. As long as you can not cite, and you will be unable to do so, an actual law which forbids to drive a foreign registered car with a Swiss driving license I firmly believe my view is true and correct. It is residency and residency only that maters.
but isn't the practice of the police equally important?


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The police is known to simplify things and even "lie" to people.
ok, so better to believe strangers on the internet than the actual police practice? I can of course argue with them, demand the actual article of law and then do you think I will win? they can always tell that's the practice.


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For Geneva http://ge.ch/vehicules/faq/permis-de-conduire#t5n52 This does not mention driving license either, just residency. But you are still free to link to the Geneva site where they mention Swiss driving permit.

Just one example where it is perfectly o.k: A former Swiss resident moves aboard but has not changed his license yet. He has a car registered and plated at his new place of resident. Perfectly o.k. fro this person to drive this car in Switzerland.

And even as a Swiss resident it is perfectly o.k. as long as you follow the correct procedure, get approval, and have the correct forms.
I cannot understand why are you so violent and mean about a person's experience. Am only reporting what police had told me - and so sorry that I have no practice in no believing what they are telling me.

Last edited by 22 yards; 27.06.2017 at 18:51. Reason: Fixed quote formatting
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Old 27.06.2017, 18:04
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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but isn't the practice of the police equally important?
Yes and No. You got off lightly so their in-actions are important because you didn't get prosecuted. But that doesn't make your actions legal, it just makes them non-prosecuted.
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Old 27.06.2017, 18:05
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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I cannot understand why are you so violent and mean about a person's experience. Am only reporting what police had told me - and so sorry that I have no practice in no believing what they are telling me.
Neither violent nor mean. Just challenging you and hammering out wrong believes and misconceptions. The topic is just a pet peeve of mine and as said, many have failed before you once challenged. This nothing to be a shamed of.

I once had the same believe as you until I questioned myself as the concept did not made any sense, and start reading various traffic and custom laws.

The lessons to be learned for you should be not to simply accept a legal answer, even from the police, w/o having a quote or citation of the actual law. Or to more carefully read what is actually written on cantonal websites.

As you may see from my other posts posts on law and legal maters I most often try to cite and link to the actual law and do not simply say X or Y is true. The problem with "it is forbidden to drive a foreign car with a Swiss license" is that I can not proof a negative or link to a non-existing article in the law. I can only give you a link to all of the Swiss law there is: https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi.../national.html
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Old 27.06.2017, 18:16
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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Neither violent nor mean. Just challenging you and hammering out wrong believes and misconceptions. The topic is just a pet peeve of mine and as said, many have failed before you once challenged. This nothing to be a shamed of.

I once had the same believe as you until I questioned myself as the concept did not made any sense, and start reading various traffic and custom laws.

The lessons to be learned for you should be not to simply accept a legal answer, even from the police, w/o having a quote or citation of the actual law. Or to more carefully read what is actually written on cantonal websites.

As you may see from my other posts posts on law and legal maters I most often try to cite and link to the actual law and do not simply say X or Y is true.
Ok, excuses accepted Am sorry I got this impression you were trying to ashame me - this is just a discussion, really tried to help sharing something I learnt from actual administration. But would be more careful in the future. The problem is that when you enter into the discussion with police, especially when they already know that not everything is in order, you can only worsen things. And as what they told me was pretty much in my favour, so I choose to believe them.
And to finish it, and just to "hammer" one of yours - for violation of 42 OAC the article 147 OAC applies - so no imprisonment, just fine. Wer einen schweizerischen Führerausweis hätte einholen müssen (Art. 42 Abs. 3bis VZV), verfügt zwar über keinen gültigen Ausweis, doch wird das Fehverhalten durch die lex specialis des Art. 147 Ziff. 1 VZV geahndet (BGE 6B_794/2010, 28.2.2011). Uff, I was just worrying that swiss police was getting nicer to strangers and btw, I got a fine, so didn't get off with that.
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Old 27.06.2017, 18:48
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Re: Speed camera, residence in Switzerland, foreign plate

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And to finish it, and just to "hammer" one of yours - for violation of 42 OAC the article 147 OAC applies - so no imprisonment, just fine. Wer einen schweizerischen Führerausweis hätte einholen müssen (Art. 42 Abs. 3bis VZV), verfügt zwar über keinen gültigen Ausweis, doch wird das Fehverhalten durch die lex specialis des Art. 147 Ziff. 1 VZV geahndet (BGE 6B_794/2010, 28.2.2011). Uff, I was just worrying that swiss police was getting nicer to strangers and btw, I got a fine, so didn't get off with that.
Nice Thank you for sharing
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