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  #41  
Old 25.07.2017, 13:03
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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My typical experience when using the left lane on a two-lane round-about is that the cars frequently enter on the right lane not letting me leave the left lane directly at my exit. I often have to stop fully indicating a right turn and waiting until the right lane is free. These are not the cars that entered the round-about on some previous entry, but at the one just before my exit.

My tactics is to change to the right lane before the previous exit so that they cannot enter on the right lane blocking me from exiting.
It is hard to watch for cars in right rear mirror when doing a left turn - they're often in its blind spot.
Maybe you're driving too slowly? If you're on the inside track and also on the inner roundabout, you should easily get to the exit before a new joining car can get alongside you.
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  #42  
Old 25.07.2017, 13:16
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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The also clearly state that it is not required, and that only signalling when leaving is legally required.

Tom
Yes, but they also don't say it's 'Totally bonkers, pointless, and even dangerous to indicate left.'. If it were, I'm sure they would say it.

It's true the "additional information" provided by the left signal is not necessary to have a functioning system - but having it helps reinforce the message about the intention of the driver in the roundabout.

But anyway, no point for us to argue, this is what official advice is meant for.
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  #43  
Old 25.07.2017, 13:32
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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Liable to induce hand gestures and horn blowing in other drivers.

No fight, just don't drive please

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This is all very nice ..... if there are two lanes on the roads. Which is mostly not the case in Switzerland.
I hate the one in Sihlbrugg, coming from Zug, going to Zurich. It has two lanes yet only one on the roads leaving, it is also too small and there is too much traffic from Hirzel. Did I mention I hate it (although crossed - safely for some reason - a million times).

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Yes, yes, of course that's the Swiss logic, but when everywhere else expects or requires left indicating what's the point in doing it differently?
Because the Swiss take pride in doing things differently
(And the everywhere else is not correct in this case).

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Such nonsense, this is how you drive on multi-lane roundabouts! (see brown-burgundy line)
Would you please start a thread where you give us weekly schedules about where you will be driving when? Thank you.

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Yes, but they also don't say it's 'Totally bonkers, pointless, and even dangerous to indicate left.'. If it were, I'm sure they would say it.

It's true the "additional information" provided by the left signal is not necessary to have a functioning system - but having it helps reinforce the message about the intention of the driver in the roundabout.

But anyway, no point for us to argue, this is what official advice is meant for.
I know the law says not to indicate left but sometimes when I got the feeling someone thinks/hopes/wants me to leave the roundabout yet I don't, I indicate left anyway just to be on the safe side
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  #44  
Old 25.07.2017, 13:33
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

I've just learnt to use the 'force'.
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  #45  
Old 25.07.2017, 14:00
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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I've just learnt to use the 'force'.
You bought a hummer?
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  #46  
Old 25.07.2017, 14:01
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

In Switzerland you often see zebra crossings immediately before roundabouts.

Whereas normally on a roundabout you wouldn't stop in other than exceptional circumstances, a zebra crossing would be a reason for a vehicle wishing to leave the roundabout to stop, and the vehicle gehind it likewise etc etc.

In this circumstance, I can see the logic of using the right lane strictly only if you are leaving at the next exit, and thus not interfering with the rest of the roundabout.
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  #47  
Old 25.07.2017, 14:07
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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In Switzerland you often see zebra crossings immediately before roundabouts.

Whereas normally on a roundabout you wouldn't stop in other than exceptional circumstances, a zebra crossing would be a reason for a vehicle wishing to leave the roundabout to stop, and the vehicle gehind it likewise etc etc.

In this circumstance, I can see the logic of using the right lane strictly only if you are leaving at the next exit, and thus not interfering with the rest of the roundabout.
That's the most idiot traffic-related implement I've ever seen! They build these lavish roundabouts in order to smoothen traffic flow and then place a pedestrian crossing immediately after. It defeats the entire point of a roundabout.
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  #48  
Old 25.07.2017, 14:11
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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That's the most idiot traffic-related implement I've ever seen! They build these lavish roundabouts in order to smoothen traffic flow and then place a pedestrian crossing immediately after. It defeats the entire point of a roundabout.
I've seen worse. Sometimes you see what is clearly supposed to be a roundabout broken up into segments by traffic lights.
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  #49  
Old 25.07.2017, 14:12
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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Yes, but they also don't say it's 'Totally bonkers, pointless, and even dangerous to indicate left.'. If it were, I'm sure they would say it.
.
You have to look at the bigger picture . That was the post I replied to:

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Whilst on this topic, what really pisses me odd about Swiss roundabouts is that drivers are apparently taught NOT to indicate left if they're staying on the roundabout, even if making a 270 degree turn (or more).

This newish one had had me slamming my brakes on more than once soon after it was built as a car comes from Bahnhofstrasse all the way round to exit going North, when I'm approaching from the South. Stupid.

Even the French behaviour of indicating left even if you're going straight on is just confusing, whereas this is downright dangerous for anyone who's used to more logical indicator usage.
The really dangerous part is Ace1 trying to enter a roundabout when no one is indicating that they intend to leave.

Also dangerous is someone indicating to leave but actually staying in the roundabout.

All other situations are only nuisance and nullify the effectiveness of a roundabout.

From a security point of view simple rules with no exceptions are the best. Are you able to come up with something still effective but simpler than: It blinks it leaves. It does not blink it stays?

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This is all very nice ..... if there are two lanes on the roads. Which is mostly not the case in Switzerland.
I hate the one in Sihlbrugg, coming from Zug, going to Zurich. It has two lanes yet only one on the roads leaving, it is also too small and there is too much traffic from Hirzel. Did I mention I hate it (although crossed - safely for some reason - a million times).
You mean this one? https://goo.gl/maps/gG3ht1bGQaH2

The separate lanes are clearly marked way ahead: https://goo.gl/maps/4SheBePbrD52

What is missing is a nice sign beforehand mentioning the separate lanes and it destinations like https://goo.gl/maps/gG3ht1bGQaH2
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  #50  
Old 25.07.2017, 14:22
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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You mean this one? https://goo.gl/maps/gG3ht1bGQaH2

The separate lanes are clearly marked way ahead: https://goo.gl/maps/4SheBePbrD52

What is missing is a nice sign beforehand mentioning the separate lanes and it destinations like https://goo.gl/maps/gG3ht1bGQaH2
Yep. Entering from Zug is no problem but changing from inner lane to outer lane to exit into Sihltalstrasse, I don't trust the buggers coming from Hirzel, as they are usually very impatient/unpredictable (after having followed slow trucks accross the Hirzel, I suppose ).
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  #51  
Old 25.07.2017, 14:26
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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Here's the actual rules, as published by TCS. Click on the relevant questions to get detailed diagrams and explanations.

https://www.tcs.ch/fr/auto-deux-roue...giratoires.php
https://www.tcs.ch/de/auto-zweirad/v...ln/kreisel.php
https://www.tcs.ch/it/auto-due-ruote...ne/rotonde.php
Interesting that the TCS give an option to indicate on entering the roundabout as non-mandatory, which is different from those of us taught in the UK where you are required to do so. I find indicating as you enter a roundabout here confuses folks, so I have gone native and now don't bother...
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  #52  
Old 25.07.2017, 14:31
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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That's the most idiot traffic-related implement I've ever seen! They build these lavish roundabouts in order to smoothen traffic flow and then place a pedestrian crossing immediately after. It defeats the entire point of a roundabout.
I see the problems. On one side you wish to have short distances for pedestrians, on the other a smooth flow of traffic. If I remember right they had some times crossing further down the road. But this was not without problems of its own. After a round about people speed up which is more dangerous for crossing pedestrians than the slower traffic in/near the roundabout.
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  #53  
Old 25.07.2017, 14:37
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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Interesting that the TCS give an option to indicate on entering the roundabout as non-mandatory, which is different from those of us taught in the UK where you are required to do so. I find indicating as you enter a roundabout here confuses folks, so I have gone native and now don't bother...
Indicating when entering is very confusing - considering the tiny roundabouts we have here - as you are expected to leave again straight away.
The main problem here is actually, that most of them are much too small to work properly. And many of them had to be rebuilt as the trucks couldn't even get round.
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  #54  
Old 25.07.2017, 14:38
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

I'm mystified why people find indicating left to be "bonkers" blah. Someone said that a roundabout was really just a straight road in disguise but for more normal thinkers, a roundabout is surely more like a crossroad in disguise. To indicate left is simply to make your intentions transparent to other drivers and pedestrians. There's no obvious argument against clarifying your destination to other road users.

But I don't do it in Switzerland because people can't cope with it. Instead, when waiting to enter a roundabout, I join that lottery, that game of chance, the game of chicken, where you stare at the front wheels of cars on the roundabout, looking for the first signs of deviation from the line, and you squint at the driver's eyes to try to detect where their line of sight is (on balance) being directed. Oh yes this of course is much less "bonkers" than simply indicating and making your intentions plain to all.

Unbelievable.
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Old 25.07.2017, 14:58
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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Yep. Entering from Zug is no problem but changing from inner lane to outer lane to exit into Sihltalstrasse
You just keep to the right of your lane and you are automatically where you supposed to be instead of "cutting the curve".

But:
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I don't trust the buggers coming from Hirzel, as they are usually very impatient/unpredictable (after having followed slow trucks accross the Hirzel, I suppose ).
may still be a problem.
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Old 25.07.2017, 15:06
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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To indicate left is simply to make your intentions transparent to other drivers and pedestrians.
Alas, it doesn't make ones intentions transparent at all.

Tom
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  #57  
Old 25.07.2017, 15:17
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

To summarise: try going native,

stop completely before entering the roundabout
ignore horn signal from driver behind
wait until the roundabout is empty
again ignore signal horn
only enter when safe to do so
drive around the outside circle
indicate right before you leave
collide with pedestrians dressed in black, on the crossing, just after the exit.

Very unreasonable and been seen here many times. Safer to have traffic lights.
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Old 25.07.2017, 16:01
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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You bought a hummer?
A chainsaw.

Too soon I suppose.
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Old 25.07.2017, 16:29
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

Although it is correct to only use the right lane if you plan on using the 1st exit, I find this method can end up turning you into Chevy Chase in European Vacation. Many times I planned on using the 2nd/3rd exit and trying to be a proper Swiss resident, I entered into the left lane only to get stuck there by another car entering the right lane when I was about to exit the roundabout. Really it's not the end of the world, but I do feel like quite the doofus doing laps around the roundabout.

As far as safely entering, common sense really dictates the when it is ok to enter. If you and the driver to the roundabout entrance before you are there at the same time, then there is no reason why you couldn't both pull out at the same time and both safely exit the roundabout as well. However, if the driver is at that same entrance but already cruising around the roundabout, please wait until they have passed you.
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Old 25.07.2017, 16:33
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Re: The best way to drive multi-lane roundabouts

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You just keep to the right of your lane and you are automatically where you supposed to be instead of "cutting the curve".

But:
may still be a problem.
Yeah, but they want you to enter on the left lane = then get to the inner lane, even though you need to change to the right one after about 5 meters to be able to leave for Sihltalstrasse. They write it on the ground so big you can't pretend you didn't see it.
As I said, the roundabouts are too small here, even though the Sihlbrugg one seems big, the entries are too close together.
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