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Old 29.09.2017, 14:30
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fined for warning about speed control

“Me and several others received a penalty notice this week. I received a fine of 850 francs because I warned of a police check via WhatsApp. What I wrote in the group is private and has nothing to do with anyone else. Why are the police involved?”

http://lenews.ch/2017/09/29/swiss-po...-message-fine/
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Old 29.09.2017, 14:33
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

But if someone warns other motorists about a speed control, surely that will result in the other motorists slowing down as they approach the speed control zone, which, surely, is the whole point of having a speed control in the first place?

Unless this is an open admission that speed controls are about revenue and not safety after all...
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Old 29.09.2017, 14:35
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

I guess... or someone leaked the info from the Whatsapp Group, or Whatsapp is not that "secure" as they say it is...
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Old 29.09.2017, 14:40
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

Quote:
But if someone warns other motorists about a speed control, surely that will result in the other motorists slowing down as they approach the speed control zone, which, surely, is the whole point of having a speed control in the first place?

Unless this is an open admission that speed controls are about revenue and not safety after all...
I guess they'll use the wider explanation as given in the article:

Quote:
Switzerland has strict rules on things that attempt to thwart the work the police do on the roads. GPS devices that warn of speed cameras were made illegal on Swiss roads in 2007.
Anything else would be under the hopeless banner of "mitigating circumstances"...
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Old 29.09.2017, 14:48
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

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But if someone warns other motorists about a speed control, surely that will result in the other motorists slowing down as they approach the speed control zone, which, surely, is the whole point of having a speed control in the first place?

Unless this is an open admission that speed controls are about revenue and not safety after all...
I guess they would claim that this is an invitation to speed everywhere else except at the speed control. If you don't know where the controls are you have a greater incentive to not speed everywhere. Or something.
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Old 29.09.2017, 14:49
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

Quote:
But if someone warns other motorists about a speed control, surely that will result in the other motorists slowing down as they approach the speed control zone, which, surely, is the whole point of having a speed control in the first place?

Unless this is an open admission that speed controls are about revenue and not safety after all...
Or that speed controls are set up to catch people who habitually speed but slow down when they know they're being watched.

If you stick to the speed limit, you don't have to worry about speed cameras (whether they're used for revenue or not). Seems quite simple.
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Old 29.09.2017, 14:55
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

200 people in the group.
Not exactly a "small intimate circle"

The odds of information leaking is proportional to the squre of the number of people who have this information...
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Old 29.09.2017, 15:14
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

I read somewhere this week that SVP politicians are considering removing fines given out after WhatsApp warnings,

Wie Whatsapp-Gruppen die Polizei austricksen - News Region ...

https://www.bernerzeitung.ch/...what...lizei.../18870... - Translate this page
6 days ago - Wer andere Verkehrsteilnehmer öffentlich vor Radarfallen warnt, macht sich seit 2013 strafbar. Geneigte Gruppen haben aber neue Wege ...

20 Minuten - Berner Lenker warnen in Chat vor Kontrollen - Bern

www.20min.ch/schweiz/bern/story/11101884

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5 days ago - Im Kanton Bern wird in grossen Whatsapp-Chats vor Polizeikontrollen und Radarfallen gewarnt. (Symbolbild Keystone, Jean-christophe Bott).

20 Minuten - Vor Radar gewarnt – von Polizei vorgeladen - News

http://www.20min.ch/.../Vor-Radar-ge...-vorgeladen-19...

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May 13, 2014 - Eine junge Frau hat auf Facebook vor einem Radar gewarnt. Das hatte Folgen: «Sie musste bei der Polizei aussagen und kassierte eine Busse ...

Social Media: Was gilt als öffentliche Radarwarnung? | Steiger Legal

https://steigerlegal.ch/.../social-m...entliche-radar...

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Jul 19, 2016 - Im Kanton Schaffhausen hingegen informiert die Kantonspolizei sogar auf ihrer eigenen ... Personen nicht vor «Radarfallen» und anderen Kontrollen im Strassenverkehr. ... Also Facebook oder WhatsApp oder andere Apps?
20 Minuten - Auf Whatsapp vor Radar zu warnen, soll legal werden ...

http://www.20min.ch/.../Auf-Whatsapp...n--soll-legal-...

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3 days ago - Ein 20-Minuten-Leser postete eine Radarwarnung in einer Whatsapp-Gruppe und bekam eine Busse aufgebrummt. Die SVP will nun das ...
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Old 29.09.2017, 15:16
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

In our digital age the police have to be on the ball, one can imagine all sorts of i-tricks appearing on dashboards if the required laws aren't in place. I watched a TV prog. showing how truck drivers cancel out their control discs by slipping a magnet somewhere under the vehicle.


Surely the whole point of speed cameras is to catch those people who speed and treat them in such a way that they won't do it again, (One hopes). All these arguments about revenue collecting are beside the point. If you don't want to pay - don't speed. Maybe you'll also save lives.


Lives without traffic wardens wouldn't be livable either.
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Old 29.09.2017, 15:17
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

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“Me and several others received a penalty notice this week. I received a fine of 850 francs because I warned of a police check via WhatsApp. What I wrote in the group is private and has nothing to do with anyone else. Why are the police involved?”

http://lenews.ch/2017/09/29/swiss-po...-message-fine/
Oh you poor guy.
Hope you do not get another fine for publicly warning us about WhatsApp
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Old 29.09.2017, 17:10
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

Phil was quoting from the newspaper, I think he'll be alright

That should be an interesting case. Although the 850.00 frank fine hints that a judge already was at it? It should definitely be appealed.

The whatsapp group seems to be specially about radar-checks (I take that from the links Sbrinz posted) - that is tricky considering warning is illegal in CH.

Still, a whatsapp group is private (this one only lets people in who are recommended by a member). Therefore it might be comparable with a private club. For example one can join a club in which's bar you can smoke - and still meet new people. It's legal. I'd say if it had been face book it could be - slightly - different.
To compare this to racism (an other link where a judge decided more than 50 member is public and the connection was therefore made to this case) is seriously crazy.

The main point to me is though, that it is illegal to warn others about radar. That is the strangest thing! The police is on public soil (yes, sometimes they use private soil yet control public soil) therefore I don't see why I can't tell others. Or will I soon also not be able to tell people about a wonderful flowerfield after the roundabout in xy, a huge traffic jam on highway 1 or even a undefined police operation outside bank/insurance x?

What I see in the streets I can talk about to anybody, is my opinion. What I see in a private house I can sometimes not.
As this will lead to a precedent the guy should not just pay the fine!
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Old 29.09.2017, 17:37
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

Quote:
But if someone warns other motorists about a speed control, surely that will result in the other motorists slowing down as they approach the speed control zone, which, surely, is the whole point of having a speed control in the first place?

Unless this is an open admission that speed controls are about revenue and not safety after all...
Say you call the police because you saw some suspiciously looking lights in your neighbors apartment, you suspect burglary. Let's further assume some other neighbor shouts by megaphone that you just called the police (by some miracle he just knows), certain to warn the burglar if there is one. So he stops the thief, scares him away, he may even prevent theft altogether. Would that be Ok?

If not, what's the fundamental difference to the radar warning?
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Old 29.09.2017, 17:41
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

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Say you call the police because you saw some suspiciously looking lights in your neighbors apartment, you suspect burglary. Let's further assume some other neighbor shouts by megaphone that you just called the police (by some miracle he just knows), certain to warn the burglar if there is one. So he stops the thief, scares him away, he may even prevent theft altogether. Would that be Ok?

If not, what's the fundamental difference to the radar warning?
In the case of the burglary, the crime is already in progress when the neighbour warns the criminal.

In the case of a driver receiving a warning that there is a police control up ahead, then the warning prevents the crime from taking place in the first place.

That was easy. Can I have another one?
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Old 29.09.2017, 17:42
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

Quote:
But if someone warns other motorists about a speed control, surely that will result in the other motorists slowing down as they approach the speed control zone, which, surely, is the whole point of having a speed control in the first place?

Unless this is an open admission that speed controls are about revenue and not safety after all...
Braking for speed cameras is dangerous - especially with tailgaters so prevalent here.

It also causes traffic jams. There's a formula for it somewhere involving trigonometry.

If you need to slow down for something such as roadworks etc, a road sign or warning triangle is the normal way of doing so, not a WhatsApp message.
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Old 29.09.2017, 17:50
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

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Braking for speed cameras is dangerous - especially with tailgaters so prevalent here.

It also causes traffic jams. There's a formula for it somewhere involving trigonometry.

If you need to slow down for something such as roadworks etc, a road sign or warning triangle is the normal way of doing so, not a WhatsApp message.
A whatsapp message received before the driver has even left the house would prevent any sudden braking such as you describe.
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Old 29.09.2017, 17:52
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

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Say you call the police because you saw some suspiciously looking lights in your neighbors apartment, you suspect burglary. Let's further assume some other neighbor shouts by megaphone that you just called the police (by some miracle he just knows), certain to warn the burglar if there is one. So he stops the thief, scares him away, he may even prevent theft altogether. Would that be Ok?

If not, what's the fundamental difference to the radar warning?
Yep. I'd say it happens a lot (without the megaphone - you got one of those at home? ) Mainly because people are scared and just want the intruder gone.

Main thing though: Law is not about "how you feel about it".
Interesting you compare burglary with speed control by police - could become a new code: "Police burglary at Schwammendingerstrasse, direction nord".

Apart from that I agree with DB.
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Old 29.09.2017, 17:53
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

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A whatsapp message received before the driver has even left the house would prevent any sudden braking such as you describe.
Of course it wouldn't.

The driver with the info would slow down for the camera, sure (but could equally hold off braking until he was at the spot with the camera) but that's not the problem, it's all those behind him who react in different ways, some braking harsher than others.
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Old 29.09.2017, 17:58
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

What will Switzerland do when we finally have self-driving cars that never break the speed limit or any other traffic laws? How will they replace the lost revenue from traffic fines?
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Old 29.09.2017, 17:58
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

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A whatsapp message received before the driver has even left the house would prevent any sudden braking such as you describe.
Plus almost everybody brakes automatically as soon as he sees a radar. Even if within the speed limit.
So radars are actually "verkehrsgefährdend" (traffic periling).

Last edited by curley; 29.09.2017 at 18:54. Reason: break/brake - I hate it :-(
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Old 29.09.2017, 18:00
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Re: fined for warning about speed control

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What will Switzerland do when we finally have self-driving cars that never break the speed limit or any other traffic laws? How will they replace the lost revenue from traffic fines?
We'll go bankrupt.
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