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View Poll Results: What propulsion do you prefer?
Pure EV goodness 38 50.00%
Petrol (Diesel) sippers (PHEV) 11 14.47%
Petrol (Diesel) guzzlers 23 30.26%
Nah, I will go for hydrogen fuel cells when available 6 7.89%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 18.05.2021, 14:56
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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US Model 3s don't have CCS!

You can't use the Superchargers here. Tesla will have to fit a CCS port.

They'll probably do that (for a price - their hourly rates are only rivaled by the local Ferrari garages, I've heard), but I'd try putting it up for sale in the US and see how much you can get. Then order a 2021 model here (after you've confirmed charging with your landlord...)
After seeing the feedback here, I started cleaning up my car to prepare for sale and see what I can get. I am now telling my wife lets take our bicycles and live a car free life. Its an opportunity for change why not use it for good. Maybe rent cars if needed.
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  #62  
Old 18.05.2021, 15:01
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

Excellent.
The less baggage you arrive here, the better.
Even more so as apartments are small and storage-space is thus expensive ;-)
There's also mobility.ch:

https://www.mobility.ch/en/private-c...ons-and-prices

Though it's IMO only worthwhile if you need a car just for a very short trip, e.g. doing a huge shopping haul or so. Longer rentals are definitely done better through sixt et.al.

Public transport is very good, almost unrivaled in Europe I believe.
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  #63  
Old 19.05.2021, 03:43
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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Excellent.
The less baggage you arrive here, the better.
Even more so as apartments are small and storage-space is thus expensive ;-)
There's also mobility.ch:

https://www.mobility.ch/en/private-c...ons-and-prices

Though it's IMO only worthwhile if you need a car just for a very short trip, e.g. doing a huge shopping haul or so. Longer rentals are definitely done better through sixt et.al.

Public transport is very good, almost unrivaled in Europe I believe.
Thanks for sharing details about mobility and the need to be mindful about accommodation space. I look at this transfer as an option to try and live a minimalistic life.
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  #64  
Old 19.05.2021, 10:37
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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After seeing the feedback here, I started cleaning up my car to prepare for sale and see what I can get. I am now telling my wife lets take our bicycles and live a car free life. Its an opportunity for change why not use it for good. Maybe rent cars if needed.
Wait, no need for extreme decisions

I mentioned finding a place where home charging is difficult only to make you aware this is something you need to put attention when looking for an apartment or house. Not to discourage you from having a car.

Switzeland is beautiful. I had a all inclusive public transport ticket (GA) for train, bus, ships for several years. It was nice, but...by 15h00 or 16h00 I had to start getting back home from any nice place. Otherwise, I could not reach home. 1 day trips in public transport don't work :/
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  #65  
Old 19.05.2021, 10:45
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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After seeing the feedback here, I started cleaning up my car to prepare for sale and see what I can get. I am now telling my wife lets take our bicycles and live a car free life. Its an opportunity for change why not use it for good. Maybe rent cars if needed.
As someone who moved here more than a decade ago, come with as little as possible - apart from the essentials, like money
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  #66  
Old 19.05.2021, 11:24
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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Wait, no need for extreme decisions

I mentioned finding a place where home charging is difficult only to make you aware this is something you need to put attention when looking for an apartment or house. Not to discourage you from having a car.

Switzeland is beautiful. I had a all inclusive public transport ticket (GA) for train, bus, ships for several years. It was nice, but...by 15h00 or 16h00 I had to start getting back home from any nice place. Otherwise, I could not reach home. 1 day trips in public transport don't work :/

It just means you have to get up early

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  #67  
Old 19.05.2021, 11:37
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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It just means you have to get up early

Couple months ago I drove my wife to the train station because she had an early flight. It was that early that there was no bus or tram connection to the hauptbahnhof. I helped her with the baggage up to the train door. We got there by 5h27 and I was surprised to see at least a dozen people with skis and snowboards. They had to wake up the latest at 5h00 and live at walking distance from hauptbahnhof. Of course it's doable, but enjoyable?
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  #68  
Old 19.05.2021, 11:53
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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Couple months ago I drove my wife to the train station because she had an early flight. It was that early that there was no bus or tram connection to the hauptbahnhof. I helped her with the baggage up to the train door. We got there by 5h27 and I was surprised to see at least a dozen people with skis and snowboards. They had to wake up the latest at 5h00 and live at walking distance from hauptbahnhof. Of course it's doable, but enjoyable?

You can take a nap in the train.
(If you arrive early enough to get a seat, or have reserved one - impossible to reserve spaces for bikes, though...).


Depending on when you leave (and from where/to), you get in a traffic jam on your way home, in your car.

Not so enjoyable either...
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  #69  
Old 19.05.2021, 12:04
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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You can take a nap in the train.
(If you arrive early enough to get a seat, or have reserved one - impossible to reserve spaces for bikes, though...).


Depending on when you leave (and from where/to), you get in a traffic jam on your way home, in your car.

Not so enjoyable either...
A drink and a assiette apèro after ski eliminate that problem. Families rush back home for dinner, we can wait 1 or 1.5 hours and then enjoy the drive back home.

Had an AG for 5 years, the cozy nap in the train is a dream. It seems the intense white light in the cars is designed to make sleep as uncomfortable as possible. The only times I've slept in the train was drunk or extremely tired that I could sleep on the floor.

But, I get it. There's people who don't like to drive. I do like to drive an on top of that lived 6 years without a car....so need to recover the missing time

PS. I cannot vote, but I hope the yes vote on the CO2 referendum wins. Less congestion.
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  #70  
Old 20.05.2021, 04:25
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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Wait, no need for extreme decisions

I mentioned finding a place where home charging is difficult only to make you aware this is something you need to put attention when looking for an apartment or house. Not to discourage you from having a car.

Switzeland is beautiful. I had a all inclusive public transport ticket (GA) for train, bus, ships for several years. It was nice, but...by 15h00 or 16h00 I had to start getting back home from any nice place. Otherwise, I could not reach home. 1 day trips in public transport don't work :/
Looking at the challenges in bringing my Tesla, it seems smart to go light and not own a car for a while.
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  #71  
Old 20.05.2021, 21:20
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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Looking at the challenges in bringing my Tesla, it seems smart to go light and not own a car for a while.
And if you need something quickly you can always buy some clunker for a few k.

It may be useful to rent a parking spot with the apartment though, if you can. It increases your options, and if you're in Lucerne proper ("city") it's probably trivial to subrent until you actually need it.
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  #72  
Old 11.06.2021, 11:22
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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Looking at the challenges in bringing my Tesla, it seems smart to go light and not own a car for a while.
That's the best starting point moving here. If you miss driving your T rent one and if you will live in an apartment without your own charging unit make sure your parking is in an enclosed parking space as this will be a problem in winter. You will not have a problem finding a charging station in CH. I'm a 2 yr owner of a TM3 and never run out of juice.
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  #73  
Old 28.06.2021, 14:44
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

We have an all-electric Volkswagen iD.3 for a 24-hour test drive with a view to replacing our 8-year old GTI.

Thus far we are impressed. It can charge from the Tesla Wall Connector, which comes off our solar panels when the sun is shinning. Interestingly it is not as efficient at the much faster Tesla, which uses 17% less!

It’s almost the same size as the Golf, but taller due to batteries under the floor, so many of the controls are already familiar.

The model range is over-complicated with too many option packages. It would be easier if you could just add what you wanted and not have to sort through lists of packages. The interior is a bit un-luxurious and stark but it has some nice tricks, like slowing down on cruise control before the speed limit signs when on cruise control.

My worry is that while Tesla has sold out of Model 3s for months to come, there are close to 500 iD3s on Autoscout24.ch mainly dealers who it seems can‘t shift them. This is doubtless the reason for the 24-hour test drive action. They are also selling with a discount.

It‘s a good car, but why aren‘t they selling??
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  #74  
Old 28.06.2021, 14:55
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

ID4s are also already discounted.

The 4x4 version of the ID.3 does not exist and the 4x4 version of the ID.4 4x4 (a.k.a. GTX) is just coming out. No idea when deliveries are going to start.

Eniaq IV is sold out for a year, AFAIK.

Switzerland, even though you can get by with RWD 360+ days a year, is a 4x4 country in the same way people are 50-100% overinsured even though it's one of the safest places on earth ;-)

Most of these vehicles are sold with way too large tires IMO. That kills the efficiency.

At least, Tesla still sells the Model 3 with 18" wheels and the Model Y with 19".
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  #75  
Old 28.06.2021, 15:06
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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We have an all-electric Volkswagen iD.3 for a 24-hour test drive with a view to replacing our 8-year old GTI.

Thus far we are impressed. It can charge from the Tesla Wall Connector, which comes off our solar panels when the sun is shinning. Interestingly it is not as efficient at the much faster Tesla, which uses 17% less!

It’s almost the same size as the Golf, but taller due to batteries under the floor, so many of the controls are already familiar.

The model range is over-complicated with too many option packages. It would be easier if you could just add what you wanted and not have to sort through lists of packages. The interior is a bit un-luxurious and stark but it has some nice tricks, like slowing down on cruise control before the speed limit signs when on cruise control.

My worry is that while Tesla has sold out of Model 3s for months to come, there are close to 500 iD3s on Autoscout24.ch mainly dealers who it seems can‘t shift them. This is doubtless the reason for the 24-hour test drive action. They are also selling with a discount.

It‘s a good car, but why aren‘t they selling??
It's not a crossover/small SUV, what people demand today

Another problem is 2/3 of people rent, only 1/3 own the home where they live. So, charging at home is a challenge for a significant fraction of potential customers. Eventually, landlords will catch up with demand and install a few chargers per building. I guess this is only the start of the transition to EVs.

Anyway, sales are not that bad:



https://infogram.com/top-15-bev-1h7v4pw3np58j6k
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  #76  
Old 28.06.2021, 15:12
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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It's not a crossover/small SUV, what people demand today

Another problem is 2/3 of people rent, only 1/3 own the home where they live. So, charging at home is a challenge for a significant fraction of potential customers. Eventually, landlords will catch up with demand and install a few chargers per building. I guess this is only the start of the transition to EVs.

Anyway, sales are not that bad:



https://infogram.com/top-15-bev-1h7v4pw3np58j6k
Tesla sold 6000 cars per year in Switzerland, in 2019 and 2020.
This year until 31st May: 975.
What happened there?
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  #77  
Old 28.06.2021, 15:30
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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Tesla sold 6000 cars per year in Switzerland, in 2019 and 2020.
This year until 31st May: 975.
What happened there?
Because the are not the only game in town, plenty of choice & people who bought Tesla last time were not impressed with build quality.
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  #78  
Old 28.06.2021, 16:12
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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Because the are not the only game in town, plenty of choice & people who bought Tesla last time were not impressed with build quality.
I am one of those. I have Polestar 2 now, model 3 previously. The Tesla has some soft wins - range, acceleration, the Polestar feels like more of an effort was made to build it.
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  #79  
Old 29.06.2021, 10:14
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

I recently saw a PS2 the first time in real life. It does look nice (it was the top spec version with Öhlins brake calipers etc.) - though it's a much more massive car than the Model 3, with more or less the same space inside.

I guess, range isn't really an issue when you drive in Switzerland, mainly.

From what I heard, the 2021 Model 3s are much, much improved over their 2019 cousins. Even more range with better efficiency, better noise insulation, motorized trunk, heated steering wheel, heat-pump, better lights - and much better build and paint quality (disregarding the "cloudy-white" intermezzo earlier this year or whenever, when apparently Tesla tried to squeeze a few minutes off the time it takes to dry the paint...).

Delivery-quality is still a mixed bag, apparently, but overall the quality has improved - no doubt because the European market has different requirements regarding fit-and-finish, features and overall view of the car (few people (if any) here desire to rent out their car as robo-taxi, even if that was possible)...

The Hyundai/KIA models coming do look nice - but there's always a good chance that the Koreans screw-up the software and never bother to fix it.

E.g. I've recently read from people who had to learn the hard way that the "phone-as-key" feature of their (ICE)-Hyundais only works a limited number of times. I.e. you can unlock your car with your phone (Tesla-style) - but only as long as you haven't exceeded the total amount of "openings" your are allotted.
If this happens in the middle of nowhere, you're f'ed. Because Hyundai certainly cannot (or does not want to) open your car remotely (unlike Tesla apparently does, if you can somehow prove that you are indeed the owner).

Fixes for serious bugs do come around for Teslas, though not always super-quick either. And until they do, you have to suck it up, too.
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Old 29.06.2021, 10:57
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Re: EV and PHEV corner

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Tesla sold 6000 cars per year in Switzerland, in 2019 and 2020.
This year until 31st May: 975.
What happened there?
There could be several causes:

- Tesla's strategy to wait for Grünheide plant to be operational and assemble model Y in Europe. No signs of production to start before the end of 2021. So, lost sales.
- Global chip shortage: Tesla minimizes the problems in the parts supply chain in messages to investors. However, the problem is there and cars cannot be completed and sold.
- Competition finally arrived: Tesla has not small hatchback, no small SUV (at least in Europe), no sports car, no luxury sedan while the competition is arriving with this. The model S is a luxury sedan according to the US interpretation of the term, the model 3 is a subcompact with the price of a larger car and the model X is too large for local tastes.
-Bored consumers? First adopters are first adopters and ballers are ballers. They want the new shinny thing and Tesla is not delivering anything new. You can buy today a used model S for less than 40K CHF (even 30K) while a 100+K one looks the same. Anyone willing to spend 100+K on a car want something different. The new generation of model X and S are like 2 years late so far.
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