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  #21  
Old 09.07.2018, 11:49
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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The person which registers the bike does not have to be the owner. Nor the driver, nor actually be able to drive the bike themselves (or any other vehicle).
Or even be in Switzerland.

My younger daughter had a scooter (which I used in Trieste) and a car (which my other daughter used in BE) registered in her name (in TI) while she was living in LA, and didn't have a license for either.

Tom
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  #22  
Old 09.07.2018, 13:59
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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Don't go getting ideas...
Thinking about it: Give me a 1000ccm bike (which I have no licence for), put me on it in a 30-zone for the first time and they will probably blizz me at at least a 120km/h.

The first time I rode a simple moped at the age of 11, the thing reared up like a horse and they shouted after me "don't you dare come home injured" - the things people say when worried.
(I didn't and no 30-zones back in them days).
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  #23  
Old 09.07.2018, 14:26
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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and they shouted after me "don't you dare come home injured" - the things people say when worried.
(I didn't and no 30-zones back in them days).
Didn't come home?

If I were on that bike, they'd shoot the bike alone, I'd be on the ground somewhere far away.
Not sure if letting the bikes ride themselves at 120km/h without a driver is a problem in Switzerland...
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  #24  
Old 09.07.2018, 14:52
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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The answers so far match what I've heard from other people, that swiss police doesn't hesitate to fine people just by looking at the motorbike plates.

What if a single bike is shared by spouses? or a friend wants to learn driving and does something that should go into the criminal record?
Does it mean the bike owner needs to guarantee their own alibi?
Someone has to carry the can. One of:
- The registered keeper (always one name)
- Any other rider/driver requires the keeper's consent so the keeper should know. Between spouses surely you'd recognise who it was
- If they don't know, then clearly the bar steward who nicked it but you'll have a police report, right?

Just like the UK and others
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Old 09.07.2018, 15:08
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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Didn't come home?

If I were on that bike, they'd shoot the bike alone, I'd be on the ground somewhere far away.
Not sure if letting the bikes ride themselves at 120km/h without a driver is a problem in Switzerland...
LOL, I did come home.

Naaa, you see, I got this thing about hanging on/keeping on it. No matter what - bikes, horses ..... my only downfall are apparently bellicons.
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  #26  
Old 09.07.2018, 17:41
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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My question is, how exactly do they find the person responsible for speeding?
Is the fact that the bike is registered to my friend enough to determine that he is responsible for the terrible act of speeding in a 30-zone?
Will they try to see his face on the photo? What if on the photo he's wearing a black jacket and a helmet, and all bikers look alike in their black jackets and helmets?
Of course a foto with an identifiable face is preferred but this seems to not be necessary.

According to this article by the Beobachter (see "Aber aufgepasst: ..."), even if the face on the foto is unrecognisable you can't all of a sudden deny having driven yourself, you need to have done so from the start in order for that to be accepted. But if you do, you must name the culprit (unless it's a family member).

Also see this federal court ruling, especially paragraph 2.6 of the deliberations ("Erwägungen"). The case/appeal is on radar pictures taken at 02:18 AM. The face in the picture from the front shows an unrecognisable face because the sun shield(word?) covers the upper half of his face. The fact that the face is unrecognisable is brushed aside based on the reasoning that, at that daytime the sun shield could only have the purpose of making the the driver's face unrecognisable. However, since no party claimed or showed that someone else was driving, it is perfectly fine to assume that the defendant was indeed the driver.
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  #27  
Old 11.07.2018, 21:57
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

My company owns a bike and a visiting guest ran a red light..
I had to prove beyond doubt it was not me.. This was only done
by the person who drive it that day fessing up he was at fault..
Took a lot of time and eventually settled 8 months later..

Thats just a small fine. I would hate to think what would happen
if someone speeds... might consider selling the bike sheesh..
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  #28  
Old 13.05.2019, 00:18
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

Hi thanks for all of the useful information.

@freeburg - can you please elaborate on your case? How you had to prove it? Did filling the answer form to police with another riders details who was riding at that time was not enough?

I am asking as I got speeding ticket (27km/h over 50km/h in the city - after deduction of tolerance). It is a surprise gift after my friend had visited me from Romania and took a ride on my bike. I called him and he is fine to take consequences and pay the fine, it was at the city limits on some sort of ring road without any sidewalk or pedestrian passes, so very low risk I would say.

I was thinking to just put his details on the revers of the letter from Police and he will get the fine but reading your post I am concerned police will anyway come to me asking to prove I was not riding?
Is that their procedure? Should I prepare some other documents or proofs?

Many thanks!
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  #29  
Old 13.05.2019, 09:10
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

Hello all, your help would be highly appreciated, can anyone advise please?

looking at my post above, does anyone have any experience with CH police challenging who was driving/riding, even after documents were send back with pointed driver? The indicated driver as well, is taking the responsibility and admitting it was him?

Should I prepare some evidences for that case? Or police will send the fine to Romania, friend will pay and topic closed?

After 5km/h deduction final result was 26km/h above 50km/h limit in build-in area.
As said, there was not much risk, no school, no pedestrian pass, not even sidewalk, part of this road is in the field (~100m) and another ~100m with couple single family houses. Friend explained that the 50km/h limit sign was at the crossroad when entering the city, for that reason he went left to go around the city. It appears now that the road left was still city limit for ~200m and police put there speed camera which flashed him from the back. He was not aware of that 200m within city limits and his measured speed was 81km/h so he was riding perfectly according to 80km/h limit. After police deducted 5km/h the result is 76km/h thus 26km/h over limit.

Thank you in advance for your opinions. This will be really helpful.
Cheers!
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  #30  
Old 13.05.2019, 09:54
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

26kmh over in a 50kmh limit is very bad news.


Your opinion on whether it was safe or required is totally irrelvant, the limit is 50kmh and sobeit, nobody cares what you think


You do understand by declarting your "friend" as the driver, they may ask for serious proof, airplane tixs or travel doc, prove of spoending whilst here, etc etc


If you think speeding laws are bad news here, wait to you try the ones for fraudulent declarations.
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  #31  
Old 13.05.2019, 10:16
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

Many thanks for your answer.

That is why I preferred to ask some more experienced “locals”. My friend visited me by car, we just hanged around, driving here and there. Not many “paper” evidences I will have, so far I found that I can show payment by card in a restaurant for more people, but will this be respected?

I do not want issues for me and him, thus maybe to avoid all of these questions, I put myself and friend will pay?
I will have the criminal record though which is not ideal.

I am not trying to get away with this ticket, I would like to follow the true so as my friend. However not knowing local language, having the friend far from here and not having many evidences I foresee issues in explaining all of this to police/juge, which for sure will increase to final ticket cost.

Is it standard procedure for police to challenge when another person was pointed in the ticket here in CH?

Many thanks once again.
Regards.
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  #32  
Old 13.05.2019, 10:16
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

Problem: 26 km/h over inside city limits means a monetary penalty of 20 days (
calculated from the daily rate of income) PLUS a license suspension of 3 months. From police and prosecutor point of view you have lots of incentives to have a scapegoat which takes the blame.

I assume you did not only provide the bike but also the gear.

Have your friend write a statement that he was the driver. Get it notarized plus apostille (as it is from abroad). Attach recent photograph, hope that facial features can be seen under helmet, also add phone number and IMEI of his phone. (I hope he had his and not your phone while he was riding the bike).

For yourself have a time line where you have been, who can testify to the fact, specially at time of the incident. Also add phone number and IMEI of your mobile phone.

Most important is to stick to your story and get it correct and truthfully at first try. Nothing annoys prosecutor more than a story that keeps changing from one instance to another.
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  #33  
Old 13.05.2019, 10:48
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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Problem: 26 km/h over inside city limits means a monetary penalty of 20 days (
calculated from the daily rate of income) PLUS a license suspension of 3 months. From police and prosecutor point of view you have lots of incentives to have a scapegoat which takes the blame.

I assume you did not only provide the bike but also the gear.

Have your friend write a statement that he was the driver. Get it notarized plus apostille (as it is from abroad). Attach recent photograph, hope that facial features can be seen under helmet, also add phone number and IMEI of his phone. (I hope he had his and not your phone while he was riding the bike).

For yourself have a time line where you have been, who can testify to the fact, specially at time of the incident. Also add phone number and IMEI of your mobile phone.

Most important is to stick to your story and get it correct and truthfully at first try. Nothing annoys prosecutor more than a story that keeps changing from one instance to another.
Very honestly: Imagine you are the local cop. Who would you rather believe:
a) some dude showing up saying it was a visitor riding his bike and asking what paper work he should do.
b) some dude showing up claiming the same and shoving some notary paper from Romania in your face…

I for one would find the second candidate far more dodgy than a guy honestly asking me about the process and documents to get...
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  #34  
Old 13.05.2019, 10:55
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

Again, thank you all for the support, really appreciated.

I think I am pretty screwed.
He was wearing my gear, picture was done from back so no face (even if it would be done front – I have tinted mirror visor which I think blocks the view) and most important as the CH roaming rates for Romanians are super expensive I plugged a route in google maps of my phone and installed it thorough my case and holder on the bike so that he knows where to go for that ride. I have all prerequisites to be blamed for all I would say?

Will be painful and costly lesson. I am a big motorcycle enthusiast and love CH for its roads. I am even fine with the speed limits as for me it is more touring and visiting places on motorcycle than racing and speed. I did thousands of km in a car and moto here in CH since 3 years. I will have to change approach to inviting friends and riding with them after this event. I often have motorcycle enthusiasts friends and we switch car/moto and enjoy CH. Will have to be only me riding as of now, at least the moto – of course after 3 months w/o license and wallet shrink.

I really do not want to confront with police and judge as I believe the system here is very good and they will crush me. I will just increase the costs.
Wonder what the ticket value will be and how to share it with friend.

Thank you for your support here.
Really appreciated.

If you have any further tips for this situation please advise.
Would be really helpful.
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  #35  
Old 13.05.2019, 11:12
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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If you have any further tips for this situation please advise.
Would be really helpful.
Yes, do point a) and proceed from there.

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Very honestly: Imagine you are the local cop. Who would you rather believe:
a) some dude showing up saying it was a visitor riding his bike and asking what paper work he should do.
b) some dude showing up claiming the same and shoving some notary paper from Romania in your face…

I for one would find the second candidate far more dodgy than a guy honestly asking me about the process and documents to get...
You'd perhaps want to be as honest as you can be - and claiming it was you is fraud.
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  #36  
Old 13.05.2019, 12:00
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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Again, thank you all for the support, really appreciated.

I think I am pretty screwed.
He was wearing my gear, picture was done from back so no face (even if it would be done front – I have tinted mirror visor which I think blocks the view) and most important as the CH roaming rates for Romanians are super expensive I plugged a route in google maps of my phone and installed it thorough my case and holder on the bike so that he knows where to go for that ride. I have all prerequisites to be blamed for all I would say?

Will be painful and costly lesson. I am a big motorcycle enthusiast and love CH for its roads. I am even fine with the speed limits as for me it is more touring and visiting places on motorcycle than racing and speed. I did thousands of km in a car and moto here in CH since 3 years. I will have to change approach to inviting friends and riding with them after this event. I often have motorcycle enthusiasts friends and we switch car/moto and enjoy CH. Will have to be only me riding as of now, at least the moto – of course after 3 months w/o license and wallet shrink.

I really do not want to confront with police and judge as I believe the system here is very good and they will crush me. I will just increase the costs.
Wonder what the ticket value will be and how to share it with friend.

Thank you for your support here.
Really appreciated.

If you have any further tips for this situation please advise.
Would be really helpful.



Yeah, right and you were at home during this time watching some crap on the TV.......
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  #37  
Old 13.05.2019, 12:15
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

I was in the car at that time to be precise.
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  #38  
Old 13.05.2019, 12:53
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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I was in the car at that time to be precise.



Well looks like you just very unfortunate, can't prove it wasn't you, "friend" has no real documentation and paid for nothing during his stay...


Wow, real tough luck pal
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Old 13.05.2019, 12:54
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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Very honestly: Imagine you are the local cop. Who would you rather believe:
a) some dude showing up saying it was a visitor riding his bike and asking what paper work he should do.
b) some dude showing up claiming the same and shoving some notary paper from Romania in your face…

I for one would find the second candidate far more dodgy than a guy honestly asking me about the process and documents to get...
or how about c) dude went to a Swiss attorney, and statement is might through or at least in agreement with said lawyer.
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  #40  
Old 13.05.2019, 13:43
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Re: Motorbikes and fines

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Wonder what the ticket value will be and how to share it with friend.
Expect a fine of 20 daily rates, with the daily rate being about 1/30 of your monthly net salary, plus administrative fees (probably roughly the same amount). Temporary licence suspension of not less than three months. AFAIK this will be entered in your criminal record.
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I really do not want to confront with police and judge as I believe the system here is very good and they will crush me. I will just increase the costs.
You will be summoned to testify anyway.
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