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-   -   Motorbikes and fines (https://www.englishforum.ch/transportation-driving/285078-motorbikes-fines.html)

orfest 08.07.2018 22:06

Motorbikes and fines
 
Hi,

I'm asking a hypothetical question for a friend, I don't even have a motorbike driving license.

When my friend drives 120km/h in a 30km/h zone, and a camera gets a nice piciture of both the front and the rear of his bike, what happens next?
I assume police will get very interested and will want to find someone responsible, take his license away and put him to prison.

My question is, how exactly do they find the person responsible for speeding?
Is the fact that the bike is registered to my friend enough to determine that he is responsible for the terrible act of speeding in a 30-zone?
Will they try to see his face on the photo? What if on the photo he's wearing a black jacket and a helmet, and all bikers look alike in their black jackets and helmets?

This is a hypothetical question, please don't tell me that the friend should be happy to pay his fine or whatever. I want to know how exactly the motorbike fines are enforced.

Any insight will be much appreciated,
Thank you for your time!

st2lemans 08.07.2018 22:07

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Unless he can prove it was someone else, the punishment is his.

Tom

orfest 08.07.2018 22:12

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Isn't speeding a criminal offense after some point?
If so, shouldn't it be the prosecutor's responsibility to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" the identity of the driver?

k_and_e 08.07.2018 22:19

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orfest (Post 2965800)
Isn't speeding a criminal offense after some point?
If so, shouldn't it be the prosecutor's responsibility to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" the identity of the driver?

yes, they do so by checking the registration plate.

and seriously, 120 in a 30 zone?

pilatus1 08.07.2018 22:28

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Tell your friend that if he drops the soap, he deserves what's coming

slammer 08.07.2018 22:42

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
OoooBoy, your "friend" is not just going to jail, if they get their hands on him... 120 in a 30 zone, do the math, best would be to skip country and never come back.
Vorausgesetzt this is a genuine thread and not a wind up.

orfest 08.07.2018 23:01

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
The question isn't based on any real-life cases, and is purely artificial.

The answers so far match what I've heard from other people, that swiss police doesn't hesitate to fine people just by looking at the motorbike plates.

What if a single bike is shared by spouses? or a friend wants to learn driving and does something that should go into the criminal record?
Does it mean the bike owner needs to guarantee their own alibi?

EdwinNL 08.07.2018 23:02

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
https://www.lematin.ch/faits-divers/...story/18663798

4.000,- Fine, 18 months of prison, and residence permit revoked.

And this dude was only driving 69 km to fast.

EdwinNL 08.07.2018 23:05

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orfest (Post 2965816)
The question isn't based on any real-life cases, and is purely artificial.

The answers so far match what I've heard from other people, that swiss police doesn't hesitate to fine people just by looking at the motorbike plates.

What if a single bike is shared by spouses? or a friend wants to learn driving and does something that should go into the criminal record?
Does it mean the bike owner needs to guarantee their own alibi?

In 2014 they installed new rules, one of them is that if the author of an offense is unknown, then the fine falls on the owner named on the vehicle’s ownership papers.

If the owner can just proof (or the other party simply admits) that somebody else was driving they get the fine and the owner is off the hook. But somebody has to pay. (even tho there is one rare case where the Judge overruled the law since he did find the picture to unclear.)

aSwissInTheUS 08.07.2018 23:10

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
The owner has the least problems. It is the registered holder which has all the responsibilities and has to make sure that the bike is not misused or ridden by someone who does not have a license.

The police are known to search the home of the registered holder at 5:30am, look gear, photographs and other evidence on telephone, computer, social media accounts etc. They may also look whose phone was logged in to the nearby mobile phone towers.

Unless it was close family the registered holder has to answer who had used the bike. To speed up prosecution they might even visit the holder at its workplace ASAP the photo of bad deed has been spotted.

We are speaking about an offense that is punishable by one to four years in prison, for first time offenders often suspended when no one was harmed.

k_and_e 08.07.2018 23:10

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by orfest (Post 2965816)
The question isn't based on any real-life cases, and is purely artificial.

ok, please close this thread.

aSwissInTheUS 08.07.2018 23:12

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EdwinNL (Post 2965818)
In 2014 they installed new rules, one of them is that if the author of an offense is unknown, then the fine falls on the owner named on the vehicle’s ownership papers.

That is just for simple fines according OBV/OBG https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...138/index.html
For anything beyond that, only the driver itself can be punished.

aSwissInTheUS 08.07.2018 23:18

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EdwinNL (Post 2965817)
https://www.lematin.ch/faits-divers/...story/18663798

4.000,- Fine, 18 months of prison, and residence permit revoked.

And this dude was only driving 69 km to fast.

"Avec suris", which means the prison sentence is suspended.

Only 10% have to actually go to prison:
http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/sto...itzen-20803815

aSwissInTheUS 08.07.2018 23:24

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by k_and_e (Post 2965820)
ok, please close this thread.

Why? Interesting thread were a lot of funny stories can be told.
Like this one where I have the 5.30am from https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich...story/14801545
or this one https://www.bernerzeitung.ch/region/...story/11729637 where they used the mobile tower logs as evidence
or this one https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/zentr...-zone-ld.20908 where they searched the house eventought they stopped the driver on the spot
or this guy https://www.landbote.ch/region/winte...story/11062179 who shared his shenanigans on Whatsapp, and the police got the video (once throug a snitch , and also once because they inspected an others person mobile phone). They also searched the drivers home and found some illegal weapons.

orfest 09.07.2018 00:24

Wow!

Thanks aSwissInTheUS for the stories, really fascinating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_and_e (Post 2965820)
ok, please close this thread.

This is called abstract thinking, look it up, I find it really useful.

slammer 09.07.2018 06:48

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Is CH not one of those countries where you are asked if anybody else will be driving the vehicle when you register it? Meaning that only the owner or somebody who has been included into the registration can actually drive the thing.

st2lemans 09.07.2018 07:22

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slammer (Post 2965850)
Is CH not one of those countries where you are asked if anybody else will be driving the vehicle when you register it? Meaning that only the owner or somebody who has been included into the registration can actually drive the thing.

No, anybody can drive it.

Tom

curley 09.07.2018 10:34

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Is this the alternative idea to get rid of an illegal? Pinch his bike, speed through the 30-zone at 120km/h? :confused:

Ato 09.07.2018 11:36

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by curley (Post 2965945)
Is this the alternative idea to get rid of an illegal? Pinch his bike, speed through the 30-zone at 120km/h? :confused:

Don't go getting ideas...

aSwissInTheUS 09.07.2018 11:40

Re: Motorbikes and fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slammer (Post 2965850)
Is CH not one of those countries where you are asked if anybody else will be driving the vehicle when you register it? Meaning that only the owner or somebody who has been included into the registration can actually drive the thing.

The person which registers the bike does not have to be the owner. Nor the driver, nor actually be able to drive the bike themselves (or any other vehicle).


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